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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      11-05-2008, 09:02 PM   #2685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWagain View Post
Donīt go to any BMW garage.Keep out. Do your oilchanges
elsewhere. Be happy with your 29.2 and enjoy the beast.
Good advice, as long as all the lights blink right. One little problem (actually have a couple) and I run the dreaded progman update risk...
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      11-06-2008, 12:52 AM   #2686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler9595 View Post
The car I drove was 2009 e90 335i (non-sport, 6at, no paddles, premium, winter). My daily driver is 2007 e90 335i sport 6at w/ paddles. My car was updated to 29.2 in May.

I know a lot of you guys are fed up with this lag issue and probably dont care much how the 2009 car compares. That's understandable, so please feel free to ignore this post...my lease is up and I was curious to know if the 2009 was less laggy...so I drove one.

It's hard to tell on a short test drive. But, the power delivery of the 2009 car was definately "different". I wonder if maybe the fact that the car was non-sport was fooling me...i.e. maybe the effect of the suspension compressing more under accelleration may have made it feel more powerful down low.

With the car warmed up to 250-255, I tried a few pulls from 1500-1700rpm in 2nd gear up to "at least 4500rpm" . The power seems to be coming on smoother than my 2007, but it didnt feel like 300lbs and I'm not sure that the lag is gone...just manifesting in a different way maybe? Hard to describe. Its almost like the throttle-response is a lot better but the torque is not really coming on until about 2.5k or 3k. The 2009 power is coming on smoother and the lag seems a bit less noticeable. It did not seem to be quite up to par with what I remember before 29.2. But, again it's hard to tell from a 20 mile test-drive.

I also tried a pull from about 2k in 4th gear on the highway...seemed to take forever to make power hard to tell. I need to spend a day or so with the car to really get a feel for it.

Other random comments: 1) The car was SG but looked A LOT lighter. It looked like it was about half way between SG and Ti silver. It's probably just my screwed up eyeballs, but that surprised me...I've seen lots of SG cars so I thought I knew what SG looked like...
2) CA said there are no 2-year leases as of now...wierd.
Welcome to 29.2+ with the 2009 turbos. Your words could easily be a description of my experience with the new turbos. It's still not fixed.
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      11-06-2008, 06:14 AM   #2687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmwFanny View Post
Good advice, as long as all the lights blink right. One little problem (actually have a couple) and I run the dreaded progman update risk...

or u need to keep an eye on bmw mechanics what they do with your car
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      11-06-2008, 09:47 AM   #2688
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Couple questions. I have a 10/2007 E92 with AT. I don’t think I have lag, but as stated many times, by many, the torque pull is not really present until around 3000 rpms at least.

Questions:

1. If I am in 4th gear and turning a corner with rpm’s around 2200, shouldn’t I technically have max torque 300 ft/lbs and have tons of pull through? I don’t by the way and the car seems sluggish, until 3000 rpms

2. The reason one downshifts a car is to get the rpms up into the peak of the torque curve for the greatest power, correct??

3. No matter what gear I am in, 6th through 1st, if the rpms are above 1400, then I should feel the max pull??
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      11-06-2008, 10:18 AM   #2689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
1. If I am in 4th gear and turning a corner with rpm’s around 2200, shouldn’t I technically have max torque 300 ft/lbs and have tons of pull through? I don’t by the way and the car seems sluggish, until 3000 rpms
You should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
2. The reason one downshifts a car is to get the rpms up into the peak of the torque curve for the greatest power, correct??
No. You downshift to change gearing so that the torque applied to the wheels is higher. There is a limit to this, and that is max RPM. Theoretically, you could have less torque with higher RPMs, but in the 335i, that effect is almost always compensated by better gearing. That means, even if torque is beginning to fall over 5500 RPM, a higher gear and less RPM is always worse effective-torque-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
3. No matter what gear I am in, 6th through 1st, if the rpms are above 1400, then I should feel the max pull??

At least that is what BMW promised: nearly constant pull from 1400-5500 RPM. Whereas, "max pull" means "in that particular gear". You could feel even more effective pull by lowering gear, as I wrote above.
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      11-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #2690
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Keep in mind that traction control can limit your response in 1st and 2nd, because there may be too much torque for your tires. Especially in 1st, it's quite hard to judge.

A higher gear is a better way to check if you're getting full torque. For example, 40 mph in 6th, 40 mph in 5th, 30 mph in 4th, 20 mph in 3rd -- and then full throttle (if you have auto, don't press the kick-down switch with the pedal, obviously, because that will jump to another gear).

As the RPM builds (in the same gear), you should feel roughly the same amount of push throughout, rather than a huge jump at 3000 RPM. The latter is what people with 29.2+ seem to be experiencing.

It would be great if someone with 29.2+ would do this to confirm...
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      11-06-2008, 01:35 PM   #2691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando View Post

It would be great if someone with 29.2+ would do this to confirm...
Actually, I already have tried to do this and reported it earlier in the thread (I have Apr08 build, presumably 29.2+), and wasn't believed (or was told that since I haven't driven one with <29.2, I didn't know what to look for). I'm certainly up for more testing, but it's not worth it if I get similar responses from people only looking for a confirming response of lag. I can state unequivocably that my car does not feel sluggish below 3000rpm, and I can feel good boost beginning around 1.5k rpms. It does feel similar to what others have described with the 2009s. I have a hard time confirming if it feels like full torque at 1.5k, but it builds smoothly, and I can't detect a noticeable change at 3k rpms.

There are also a couple of factors that may be working against my ability to test this well. One is that I have a fairly short commute, and I know the wastegate behavior changes once the engine warms. Does anyone know when it changes (i.e. after the first couple minutes, or does the oil temp needle need to be moving up)? I want to make sure I'm not testing it during the "cold engine" program. The second factor is that my car is fairly new (<1500 miles). I haven't been driving it much because I put snows on fairly early, and it's been unseasonably warm here in Chicago, although that should change this weekend. It could be that the lag behavior changes a bit once miles are accumulated, and the wastegates have more use on them. If that is a factor, perhaps a tester with more miles would be better.
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      11-06-2008, 01:48 PM   #2692
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I think we need to start a new thread for people that bought the car with 29.2 and have never experienced driving a pre 29.2. This thread should be people that were pre 29.2 and were upgraded.
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      11-06-2008, 02:42 PM   #2693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
I think we need to start a new thread for people that bought the car with 29.2 and have never experienced driving a pre 29.2. This thread should be people that were pre 29.2 and were upgraded.
My July 08 build with 30.0.2 is close to swartzentruber's description. I do feel there's more torque over 3k but there's a smooth build. There is very significantly more torque at low revs than I had with my E46 330i. The turbos are doing something, I totally accept that it seems like they are not delivering as a pre-29.2 car would. Believe me when I say that I'd love for my car to perform like a pre-29.2. But....it does seem like there are a number of people here who have real problems with their cars below 3k rpm. If such descriptions are accurate then these cars are way worse than mine. As we've discussed in the past there are a number of variables in play here. I don't believe all cars are performing anything like equally, even with when classified by the same software revision. Just because someone has a different experience does not make them wrong or only suitable for being ostracized to another thread.
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      11-06-2008, 09:13 PM   #2694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
I think we need to start a new thread for people that bought the car with 29.2 and have never experienced driving a pre 29.2. This thread should be people that were pre 29.2 and were upgraded.
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      11-06-2008, 09:25 PM   #2695
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      11-07-2008, 01:59 AM   #2696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof3ssor View Post
I think we need to start a new thread for people that bought the car with 29.2 and have never experienced driving a pre 29.2. This thread should be people that were pre 29.2 and were upgraded.
-1

We're affected by the same issue regardless of the car's original state.
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      11-07-2008, 07:41 AM   #2697
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i have 29.1.1 version do i only one have this version in here?
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      11-07-2008, 09:55 AM   #2698
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A promising post?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184400

Here's the text:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydeputy View Post
Well fellow Bimmers, 1st a little back round. My 2008 E90 335xi was one of the first ones built. My car was ordered around the beginning of July 07. Arrived at BMW, Bel Air, MD. 1 Oct 2007. and was delivered 3 Oct 07.

I am new to BMW, but not lux. sport cars.
I have owned, 2 Volvo S60 AWD Turbos,(neither had turbo lag that I was aware of), and I sold my 2006 Audi A4 Quattro 3.2 S-line, to buy my current 1st BMW. I had no problems at all until I had Bluetooth / Sat. radio / mirror-seat settings/ being lost. So... I got the newest software that had just came out the day before, according to my SA on 30 Apr 08. As not being member yet of this forum, or BMW CCA. I had not heard the rumors about turbo lag yet. But my SA did confirm then, that it was V29.2.0 installed on BMW.

I work in the area of Bel Air BMW, and had gotten to know service, parts, and sales staff quite well, on my many friendly visits. The owner of Bel Air & Towson BMW, had even given me passes to the car shows in Washington DC, and Baltimore, (DC was the best). I'm still waiting for BMW's front strut brace for a 335xi, the strut towers are more vertical that the non AWD's, and the turbos take up to much room under the hood for the brace to fit right now. I'm hoping it will be out soon. I frequently spoke w/ Joe the top service tech in the shop, about what I was experiencing w/ my BMW. He was aware that there was a problem w/ , as he said, "electric throttle hesitation". The next few softwares had been released, and addressed this hesitation, but Joe shared that some of the memos w/ me. A memo f/ BMW in Sept 08, talked about the issue. But there were bugs in these softwares, that had electronic issues, etc. So Joe suggested I wait for a version that didn't have these bug, but addressed the hesitation issue.

This bring us up to date. Yesterday, 6 Nov 2008, my car went in for service, and was re flashed w/ V31.1.0. (a copy of the tech sheet was give to me, to confirm this). My passed performance issues were, hesitation, or turbo lag f/ a stop, or low RPM, take offs. Well, my spirited drive home, yesterday was about as hard as I could make it for the new V31.1.0. All combinations of acceleration that I could think of were put to the test. While I am not a mechanic, I can change my oil, spark plugs, brakes, etc. My understanding of the dynamics of the 2 small turbos spooling up on my BMW are not technical, but I know what I feel thru the gas pedal, brake pedal, and steering wheel. I am however a certified EVOC instructor thru the state of MD. I can post lap times w/ the best of them on a road course, and have been at the top of the charts against other EVOC instructors. Enough said.

Well I'm pleased to say... THE TURBO LAG/ ELECTRINIC THROTTLE HESITATION IS GONE! My 1 year old BMW is back the way its was when it was new, w/ no electronic bugs f/ BMW either.

To those of you who had questions on my previous posts, ie, how do I know what software I have, and how do I know if I have turbo lag. I am only aware of the dealer being connected to their CPU, and telling you what version software you have. As to turbo lag, only the driver knows what they feel thru the seat of their pants. The current BMW software is only available as a download f/ BMW in NJ. The shop doesn't have it on disc yet. So it takes about 4 hr. to install. WARNING, the dealer will only upgrade your BMW if you have some type of software issue that either gives error codes or causing a recognizable symptom on your car. If they run a diagnostic on your car, and nothing is wrong they will tell you your BMW is preforming as it is programed to do. Hence you go home w/ no software upgrade. That did happen to me last month. BMW is still not openly admitting to have a programed turbo lag. I recommend telling your SA the the car sometimes HESITATES f/ a stopped start, ie. stop sign, or red light.

Good Luck, dave in Bel Air
Hopefully there's something to this.

-B
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      11-07-2008, 11:27 AM   #2699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
Couple questions. I have a 10/2007 E92 with AT. I donít think I have lag, but as stated many times, by many, the torque pull is not really present until around 3000 rpms at least.

Questions:

1. If I am in 4th gear and turning a corner with rpmís around 2200, shouldnít I technically have max torque 300 ft/lbs and have tons of pull through? I donít by the way and the car seems sluggish, until 3000 rpms

??
Absolutley. This was the biggest selling point of this car.
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      11-07-2008, 02:19 PM   #2700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
Couple questions. I have a 10/2007 E92 with AT. I donít think I have lag, but as stated many times, by many, the torque pull is not really present until around 3000 rpms at least.

Questions:

1. If I am in 4th gear and turning a corner with rpmís around 2200, shouldnít I technically have max torque 300 ft/lbs and have tons of pull through? I donít by the way and the car seems sluggish, until 3000 rpms
At 2200 RPM in 4th, you should have 300 ft-lb of torque at the engine. But I don't think you will have "Max Pull".

You feel "Max Pull" when you get max torque at the wheels, and this is not the same as the torque generated by the engine.

The gear ratios for 335i:
1st: 4.06
2nd: 2.40
3rd: 1.58
4th: 1.19
5th: 1.0
6th: 0.87

When the engine generates 300 ft-lb torque, this is the torque that you would get at the wheels:
1st: 4.06 * 300 = 1,218 ft-lb
2nd: 2.40 * 300 = 720 ft-lb
3rd: 1.58 * 300 = 474 ft-lb
4th: 1.19 * 300 = 357 ft-lb

So you are getting only 357 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels in 4th. You will experience much more "Pull" in lower gears.
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      11-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #2701
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I have a pre v29.2 2007 335i and my lease expires in a few months. I am thrilled to hear that the old 335i performance is back and am looking forward to a 2009. Apparently some of the early 2009 cars still had the turbo lag.
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      11-08-2008, 05:20 AM   #2702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
I have a pre v29.2 2007 335i and my lease expires in a few months. I am thrilled to hear that the old 335i performance is back and am looking forward to a 2009. Apparently some of the early 2009 cars still had the turbo lag.
Wha? My lease is up this month. I drove a 2009 e90 335 on Wednesday. Read my review a couple of pages back on this thread. Based on my test drive, my sense is that the "old 335i performance" is definately not back.

Like you, I have really been looking forward to a 2009. So, I'm very curious what makes you think the problem is resolved?
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      11-08-2008, 11:00 AM   #2703
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      11-09-2008, 03:06 AM   #2704
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Marconi where are your pictures of the fix?
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      11-09-2008, 02:25 PM   #2705
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Marconi where are your pictures of the fix?
Yes, please post pics.
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      11-10-2008, 10:22 AM   #2706
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...Sorry friend, not my question
My bad, it was Quisps.
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