[zx10guy]

Interesting. Both the Acura and the BMW dealerships accepted the $20k personal checks I wrote out.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by John 070

There is also such a thing as "pride" with salespeople. With my wife's car, the salesman was a ****. I asked him if the car we were test driving were a demo. He said what do you mean by that, it's brand new. It had like 400 miles on it. I made an offer, he said to stop back when I was serious, they're open all weekend.

Again, I had the mentality we don't need a car today, and I passed by another dealership. Subtracted $500 from the above offer, and the guy said are you going to take the car today? I said of course. Deal was done.

Of course buying a car is a game. The finance manager who matched 1.49% of the CU said now I don't know why we would do this deal, but that's why I'm not the GM. He swiveled his screen around (it looked like DOS), and in the lower right hand corner was this big RED number -7xx. He said we are losing 700 on this sale, I'm not making that up.

I do wish I could have gotten a screen shot to actually see what that number was. Even edmunds said there is some secrecy in the industry so not everything is transparent.

Also interesting is that this dealer accepted a personal check for 20k. The BMW dealer told me cashier's or certified check only.

I wrote BMW a personal check for larger than that too. Maybe it's a dealer-level policy.

[BayMoWe335]

BMW accepted my personal check for the car too.

Update, the GM emailed us thanking us for coming in. Seemed more canned than anything else, but they did put it out there. I'm guessing no response and a slow sales weekend might have them calling back next week.

If not, maybe they got enough suckers to pay....if that's the case, on to the next deal.

I guarantee the conversation went something like, "Dude it's still early. Yeah, we have a few weeks to sell these. Someone else will pay more. We don't have to sell it for that yet. I won't get my commission bonus if we sell that low. We are super busy, someone will pay more!"

[Pixel8ed]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

I guess we'll wait a few weeks and hope they want to sell the volume. I heard volume is pretty important for these big Toyota/Honda dealerships. If not, he'll just have to cave. He's just being cheap and trying to play this game. I told him it's not worth the hassle and to just pony up.

Volume is important. But at scale, not on a per car basis. The more cars they buy from the manufacturer the cheaper they get. Invoice price is a joke, it has very little to do with what they pay as no discounts or incentives are included in the invoice price. But the breakdown is at levels of sales, not a hard number of actual sales. Such as 1- 100 sales 101-500, 501 -1000...etc..etc..( made up numbers) The dealer wants to stay above a certain level for profit margin. But if they are at 105, and need to get to 500 to make the next level, most likely they are not going to try very hard as it does not really help anything.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by John 070

He swiveled his screen around (it looked like DOS), and in the lower right hand corner was this big RED number -7xx. He said we are losing 700 on this sale, I'm not making that up.

I do wish I could have gotten a screen shot to actually see what that number was. Even edmunds said there is some secrecy in the industry so not everything is transparent.

The dealer I usually buy cars from does this every time. Although I do not have any absolute knowledge of this, I'm pretty sure that screen is bs. If so they would run everytime I come in because apparently they lose money on every single car they sell me... fat chance.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

I wrote BMW a personal check for larger than that too. Maybe it's a dealer-level policy.

Since I've only purchased 3 new cars, the Nissan and BMW required cashiers, not my wife's. The only thing I can see is the two were urban dealers. Sounds like personal checks are the norm?

I was f'in around with BMW, so I got 3 cashiers checks $9,999.99 ea. this triggered a SAR and it took about 35 min for me to leave with the checks...little did I know the aggregate amount is what matters. Even Eliot Spitzer got smoked as he didn't know.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The dealer I usually buy cars from does this every time. Although I do not have any absolute knowledge of this, I'm pretty sure that screen is bs. If so they would run everytime I come in because apparently they lose money on every single car they sell me... fat chance.

This finance mgr said ego drives deal. I said what do you mean? He said they want bragging rights "highest volume in the East" etc. and he admitted if we lose on one deal, we win on 4 others...

[WreckerX5d]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

BMW accepted my personal check for the car too.

Update, the GM emailed us thanking us for coming in. Seemed more canned than anything else, but they did put it out there. I'm guessing no response and a slow sales weekend might have them calling back next week.

If not, maybe they got enough suckers to pay....if that's the case, on to the next deal.

I guarantee the conversation went something like, "Dude it's still early. Yeah, we have a few weeks to sell these. Someone else will pay more. We don't have to sell it for that yet. I won't get my commission bonus if we sell that low. We are super busy, someone will pay more!"

Those emails are pretty generic and the sales guy doesn't really care other than getting you back in the door. If it's a high volume car like the Rav4, don't expect them pushing you for a buy now deal over the phone. The sales managers are the ones who work the deal and if the GM is there he can allow the best deal if it'll put them over for a bonus.

[nopslide]

Did you check truecar/forums for the car? Is your price just retarded? You can't just offer a value without any basis in reality.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by nopslide

Did you check truecar/forums for the car? Is your price just retarded? You can't just offer a value without any basis in reality.

No, our offer is absolutely fair. We are only about $2k apart and they basically didn't even counter from their original offer which is obviously not their bottom line.

The rub here are the options installed by dealer like wheel locks, mud flaps, trunk liner, and tint retailing for $2,000.

[M2BMW]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

No, our offer is absolutely fair. We are only about $2k apart and they basically didn't even counter from their original offer which is obviously not their bottom line.

The rub here are the options installed by dealer like wheel locks, mud flaps, trunk liner, and tint retailing for $2,000.

The rub is that the options still cost the dealership x dollars. Based on the fact that the dealership decided to not counter offer shows that at this time they did not think it was a realistic offer and decided it was not worth their time to further negotiate with you.

You have time on your side, if the car does not sell most dealerships will lower their price. But if you are so far off of their normal sales price and the dealership is able to move their cars, they may never come down to your price. This is where services like True Car can be useful.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by M2BMW

The rub is that the options still cost the dealership x dollars. Based on the fact that the dealership decided to not counter offer shows that at this time they did not think it was a realistic offer and decided it was not worth their time to further negotiate with you.

You have time on your side, if the car does not sell most dealerships will lower their price. But if you are so far off of their normal sales price and the dealership is able to move their cars, they may never come down to your price. This is where services like True Car can be useful.

True car indicates our offer is more than fair. Those options literally cost the dealers in the $100 range. The rub is they are holding on to that value on an already low margin car.

I agree that they are simply waiting for a different sucker to meet their price and not financing hurts him. If they want to sell it, it will be End of the month when they contact us assuming they haven't sold it. If not, he will just get a 2017. My guess is they will have to come down because most buyers know the 17s are near and will want a deal to take a 16.

[Dackelone]

Since your negotiating skills don't seem to be doing the trick... Are you a member of Price Club(Costco, SAMS or the like) or even a Credit Union... many times they have fairly rock bottom deals on all kinds of cars/trucks. There are also buying services that offer the same low prices - but you pay a fee.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Since your negotiating skills don't seem to be doing the trick... Are you a member of Price Club(Costco, SAMS or the like) or even a Credit Union... many times they have fairly rock bottom deals on all kinds of cars/trucks. There are also buying services that offer the same low prices - but you pay a fee.

I was curious about the above, as we are AAA, credit union, Costco, and we can also get an "employee discount" on Subaru and MB. Decided to check them all out, and they were more expensive than using my mouth to negotiate...

[John 070]

Originally Posted by nopslide

Is your price just retarded?

That term is not politically correct, and nobody uses that word anymore. Just sayin', you never know when you might use it in the wrong situation.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Since your negotiating skills don't seem to be doing the trick... Are you a member of Price Club(Costco, SAMS or the like) or even a Credit Union... many times they have fairly rock bottom deals on all kinds of cars/trucks. There are also buying services that offer the same low prices - but you pay a fee.

This isn't negotiating "skills, lol. Sometimes, dealers don't want to deal. He has his price, they don't want to meet it...no amount of "negotiating" will get us to the price he wants. It's my brother's call anyway. I probably would have countered a little more just to get it done.

[1LRM3]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

This isn't negotiating "skills, lol. Sometimes, dealers don't want to deal. He has his price, they don't want to meet it...no amount of "negotiating" will get us to the price he wants. It's my brother's call anyway. I probably would have countered a little more just to get it done.

First off, you are a great bro to be purchasing a car for your brother's wife. Most kind of you.

A lot of what was said here I agree with. I have not bought a TOY in 6 years, but I thought they went to a "no haggle pricetag." Even though in my eyes, everything is negotiable. Sometimes, checking different areas of the state you live in might be an idea. And if you really prefer this dealer, and they wont change on price and you like the car, will they through in maintenance i.e. lifetime services or washes etc.... ?

[John 070]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

This isn't negotiating "skills, lol. Sometimes, dealers don't want to deal. He has his price, they don't want to meet it...no amount of "negotiating" will get us to the price he wants. It's my brother's call anyway. I probably would have countered a little more just to get it done.

It is "personal" at times. For example, that salesman felt confident that I cannot ask if a vehicle we're driving with 400 miles is a demo. It was a dumb question in his mind. Well, a vehicle in my mind doesn't magically go from 3 to 400 miles by sitting on a lot.

Then, he let me walk out, and told me arrogantly they are open all weekend long (Labor Day) and to come back when I'm ready.

For another dealership to sell the same vehicle, for $500 less, than what was "too low" for the first dealership to the point that he would let me walk away, really demonstrates that it's a game. Any dealership can sell the same vehicle for the same price, nationwide. It's a question on whether they want to.

Just made me remember this story, went to drive the new Chevy Suburban (2015) when it came out, for $50. This may have been summer 2014. This old couple came in, dealer was dead as a doorknob, "Who is Michael ********?! We want to buy a new Tahoe!"

Michael stands up, right here!

The woman goes, "We want to buy it from anyone but you, since you don't return phone calls!"

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by John 070

It is "personal" at times. For example, that salesman felt confident that I cannot ask if a vehicle we're driving with 400 miles is a demo. It was a dumb question in his mind. Well, a vehicle in my mind doesn't magically go from 3 to 400 miles by sitting on a lot.

Then, he let me walk out, and told me arrogantly they are open all weekend long (Labor Day) and to come back when I'm ready.

For another dealership to sell the same vehicle, for $500 less, than what was "too low" for the first dealership to the point that he would let me walk away, really demonstrates that it's a game. Any dealership can sell the same vehicle for the same price, nationwide. It's a question on whether they want to.

Just made me remember this story, went to drive the new Chevy Suburban (2015) when it came out, for $50. This may have been summer 2014. This old couple came in, dealer was dead as a doorknob, "Who is Michael ********?! We want to buy a new Tahoe!"

Michael stands up, right here!

The woman goes, "We want to buy it from anyone but you, since you don't return phone calls!"

Hah! Love the story. The only thing I would say is that every dealer can not necessarily sell the same car at the same price. They are businesses that need to make a profit to survive and, while their product costs may be the same, their labor and real estate costs vary widely (SF vs. say, East St Louis), so they have varying degrees of non-product-related costs to recoup. However, I agree with the point you are making, in general.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Hah! Love the story. The only thing I would say is that every dealer can not necessarily sell the same car at the same price. They are businesses that need to make a profit to survive and, while their product costs may be the same, their labor and real estate costs vary widely (SF vs. say, East St Louis), so they have varying degrees of non-product-related costs to recoup. However, I agree with the point you are making, in general.

agreed...btw that Chevy dealer was poor, and there was another oddity. I parked at a municipal lot next to the dealer, and the salesman goes, "You driving a BMW coupe?" I mean I guess there must be cams or something, cuz the lot was nowhere near the sales floor....

With GM, they are supposed to punch in the info at the dealer. Sometimes, they give you a code. They're not supposed to because with it, you no longer need them. I actually found a spreadsheet online of every code in the country, probably some disgruntled employee.

BUT THE SALES DUDE GAVE ME THE WRONG CODE SO I COULDN'T ENTER THE INFO ONLINE TO GET THE $50!

I called back angry and another guy told me to call back next week, the guy left and won't be back for a few days.

I just said listen, you better give me the code over the phone or I'm driving right down there, this is BS. After putting me on hold, I got it, entered it, and 2 wks. later I had my $50 gift card.

moral: sales has no rules and can be deceitful

[Alfisti]

You gotta finance the vehicle. keep the cash and invest and it's win/win anyway, cash is insane in this environment.

Also shopping right now is crazy, it's hard ball time but within a month or so they will be running 16's out the fucking door. Don't buy now, honestly it makes zero sense.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

You gotta finance the vehicle. keep the cash and invest and it's win/win anyway, cash is insane in this environment.

Also shopping right now is crazy, it's hard ball time but within a month or so they will be running 16's out the fucking door. Don't buy now, honestly it makes zero sense.

Different situation...he doesn't need to hold onto cash and invests a ton. He just wants to be done with it. I do think they'll want to deal but now he's convinced it might be smarter to wait for a 2017. I read both the CRV and Rav-4 will be redesigned for 2017? Like a month from now, they'll be an all new one.