[warmmilk]

Originally Posted by Donutz

if you can afford to get some nice racing gloves I would suggest getting them, however, if you're in a budget get some cheap mechanics gloves that have thin suede palms. They work just the same.

Lastly, learn about the basics of setting you car up in its stock form. Torque your lug bolts at the start of the day, set your your tire pressures

if you think mechanics gloves and race gloves work the same you either never tried race gloves or you tried really crappy ones

thanks for bringing up torquing lug bolts. its a good idea to check them periodically through out the day, maybe every couple sessions or so. Tire pressure is also something that should be checked through out the day. Your first few days don't worry too much about tuning handling via pressures, just make sure each axle is equal and doesn't get too high or too low (very unlikely, in fact if it gets too low you most likey have a leak somewhere). A good starting off point for most street tires is in the high 30's hot, meaning just as you come off the track.

[justpete]

Make sure you torque the lugs before gridding up, _not_ after coming back to the paddock as they're too hot and they'll stretch, not a good thing.

Also get a tire crayon and mark across the tread and up the sidewalls a bit after getting back to the paddock when the tire's hot and will melt the crayon instead of breaking it. Then check it when you get back the next time to see if the pressure is correct in that the mark is now gone only across the tread and not up the sidewall. Repeat this sequence for each session until dialed in.

Tire pressure has to be set cold on street tires and that won't make much sense on the track. That and if one side is in the sun you'll mistakenly adjust pressures so the one facing the sun turns out to be a bit too low compared to the one in the shade. It's more important to make sure you're utilizing all the tread and no more. R-Comps otoh need to have their pressure set hot but you won't be on those for a long time yet.

[warmmilk]

Originally Posted by justpete

Tire pressure has to be set cold on street tires and that won't make much sense on the track. That and if one side is in the sun you'll mistakenly adjust pressures so the one facing the sun turns out to be a bit too low compared to the one in the shade. It's more important to make sure you're utilizing all the tread and no more. R-Comps otoh need to have their pressure set hot but you won't be on those for a long time yet.

I disagree a bit. for street driving, yes, tire pressures need to be set cold. But on track, either on street or r comp tires, pressures need to be set hot. I've seen people get street tires up to 50 psi on track by just setting it cold and not checking till I nagged them about it a bunch...

[justpete]

Originally Posted by warmmilk

I disagree a bit. for street driving, yes, tire pressures need to be set cold. But on track, either on street or r comp tires, pressures need to be set hot. I've seen people get street tires up to 50 psi on track by just setting it cold and not checking till I nagged them about it a bunch...

I think we agree but from different viewpoints. I'm of the opinion to measure pressure indirectly using the crayon, which does pretty much the same thing as checking hot pressure except there's a reference and one doesn't need to know what hot pressure is acceptable. YMMV of course.

[warmmilk]

Originally Posted by justpete

I think we agree but from different viewpoints. I'm of the opinion to measure pressure indirectly using the crayon, which does pretty much the same thing as checking hot pressure except there's a reference and one doesn't need to know what hot pressure is acceptable. YMMV of course.

oh yes, of course. but I don't think the crayon is something a driver needs to worry about on his/her first event... just make sure the pressure is in a safe range

[justpete]

Originally Posted by warmmilk

oh yes, of course. but I don't think the crayon is something a driver needs to worry about on his/her first event... just make sure the pressure is in a safe range

Oh, yes, agreed. It's unlikely a new driver can push the car hard enough to get tire pressure to dangerous levels or such that the tire patch becomes dangerously small. Well, theoretically anyway. I've seen 335i and M3 drivers new to the track push their cars too hard because they don't know how to modulate the throttle to get a safe corner entry speed from which to brake and as such overheat the shit out of their tires leading to an understeer induced off. And they're not yet skilled enough to know to turn the wheels straight before they leave the track. It's a wonder more don't roll their cars.

As an example I was chasing a new M3 last year or maybe the year before, whatever, and in his panic at being tailed by a girl's car into the apex he overcooked the everliving shit out of it and started a four wheel drift which scrubbed enough speed he was able to punch it and bail on the corner exit. I was trying not to crack up and my instructor got annoyed I wouldn't continue to push him to get a point by. Honestly felt sorry for the guy.

Well, later I noticed he was checking tire pressure all the damn time so I offered to help with an extra crayon I had, explaining what was going on. He was gracious enough but perplexed about my car which he was convinced had an engine swap. He actually said this depressed him cuz he'd just bought this terribly expensive M3 and it just wan't as fast as he thought it would be. Nice guy, really a nice guy but he was chasing the wrong thing at his first track weekend instead of chasing skills, complete loss of focus.

[warmmilk]

Originally Posted by justpete

Oh, yes, agreed. It's unlikely a new driver can push the car hard enough to get tire pressure to dangerous levels or such that the tire patch becomes dangerously small. Well, theoretically anyway. I've seen 335i and M3 drivers new to the track push their cars too hard because they don't know how to modulate the throttle to get a safe corner entry speed from which to brake and as such overheat the shit out of their tires leading to an understeer induced off. And they're not yet skilled enough to know to turn the wheels straight before they leave the track. It's a wonder more don't roll their cars.

As an example I was chasing a new M3 last year or maybe the year before, whatever, and in his panic at being tailed by a girl's car into the apex he overcooked the everliving shit out of it and started a four wheel drift which scrubbed enough speed he was able to punch it and bail on the corner exit. I was trying not to crack up and my instructor got annoyed I wouldn't continue to push him to get a point by. Honestly felt sorry for the guy.

Well, later I noticed he was checking tire pressure all the damn time so I offered to help with an extra crayon I had, explaining what was going on. He was gracious enough but perplexed about my car which he was convinced had an engine swap. He actually said this depressed him cuz he'd just bought this terribly expensive M3 and it just wan't as fast as he thought it would be. Nice guy, really a nice guy but he was chasing the wrong thing at his first track weekend instead of chasing skills, complete loss of focus.

haha, I know the feeling... this guy was in front of me two laps with me riding his ass. I kept thinking he's gonna let me pass cause I saw him making eye contact with me in his mirror's. and this was the advanced run group, pass anywhere with point by..

although at least it is a 'merica car thats more known for its weight then handling and not a new M3, so not really the same.. but still, he has more than double the power I do... even with a long ass straight where he'd put 10ish car lengths on me I'd be on his ass within 2 corners.

speaking of M3's, there was one there that same day... I have never been passed that fast before on track, I felt like a newbie again when he flew past me... on a corner I should add. I saw him coming from far so I gave him the proper line and an early point by

[Donutz]

Originally Posted by warmmilk

if you think mechanics gloves and race gloves work the same you either never tried race gloves or you tried really crappy ones

thanks for bringing up torquing lug bolts. its a good idea to check them periodically through out the day, maybe every couple sessions or so. Tire pressure is also something that should be checked through out the day. Your first few days don't worry too much about tuning handling via pressures, just make sure each axle is equal and doesn't get too high or too low (very unlikely, in fact if it gets too low you most likey have a leak somewhere). A good starting off point for most street tires is in the high 30's hot, meaning just as you come off the track.

Yes, you are right. My comparison isn't between the racing gloves vs the mechanics gloves, but I see how what I wrote leads to that thought. My comparison was more about bare hands vs gloves. The suede palm mechanics gloves will provide better grip on the controls than sweaty bare hands.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by bmwmsport

Found a few good looking helmets on their website. Is there any real difference between Bell and Arai? Is there anything I need to watch out for in buying a helmet? I am avoiding the $3000+ carbon fiber ones, though they are pretty cool.

I've spent some time researching classes. Nearest one is the Porsche school in Birmingham, AL, with the next one being Skip Barber Racing School at Road Atlanta or NOLA. They're all terribly expensive.

what does a car need to pass tech inspection for a basic track day? anything special?

The MOST important factor for a helmet is the fit. Won't protect you if it does not fit properly. You have to try them on to know. I would take a proper fitting $300 helmet over a $1000 helmet that does not fit.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by warmmilk

speaking of M3's, there was one there that same day... I have never been passed that fast before on track, I felt like a newbie again when he flew past me... on a corner I should add. I saw him coming from far so I gave him the proper line and an early point by

I'm hip. Last run group last year at ECR and I was the newbie with all the rest of the guys from the advanced group. One was a rocket powered M3 I swear was bone stock and damn was he good. Blew by me like I was sitting still and proceeded to walk away corner by corner. Made me grin. Nice to see someone who knows what the hell they're doing pilot a stock M3 like that.

[warmmilk]

Originally Posted by Donutz

Yes, you are right. My comparison isn't between the racing gloves vs the mechanics gloves, but I see how what I wrote leads to that thought. My comparison was more about bare hands vs gloves. The suede palm mechanics gloves will provide better grip on the controls than sweaty bare hands.

oh I see, thanks for clarifying

[bmwmsport]

Thanks for all the responses!

Running down some leads on track days now to try to find one at Barber Motorsports Park instead of NOLA.

Do yall recommend a specific driving school? Will BMW's M Performance school allow me to get my racing license like Porsche's school will?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by bmwmsport

Thanks for all the responses!

Running down some leads on track days now to try to find one at Barber Motorsports Park instead of NOLA.

Do yall recommend a specific driving school? Will BMW's M Performance school allow me to get my racing license like Porsche's school will?

You're going to have to go through a dozen or more track weekends before you stand the slimmest chance of passing the requirements to get a novice racing license. SCCA is tougher than NASA and NASA is ball busting. With the latter you have to progress, by permission, from HPDE 1 through HPDE 4 before you can be allowed to compete in time trials where you run alone on the track against the clock. It's still not wheel to wheel racing, that's another level up.

Read the details on the SCCA site on what's required to attend the school and what's expected of someone to be granted a provisional license. It ain't trivial.

[gavronm]

Originally Posted by bmwmsport

Do yall recommend a specific driving school? Will BMW's M Performance school allow me to get my racing license like Porsche's school will?

As another poster just mentioned, you are getting way ahead of yourself. Do a couple HPDEs before you start thinking about getting a racing license. You don't even know if you enjoy it yet. I've had friends that were super excited to get on the track but when they finally did decided it wasn't for them. I think a lot of people think it's a lot easier to go fast than it really is and when they're finally out there trying to get the car around the track and the results don't come right away and they realize how much work it takes to get good, they decide to focus their time and money on something else.

I wouldn't spend the the money on the "factory" driving experiences my first time out. Those are really expensive. Stick to HPDEs run by your local clubs and if you love it and want the "experience" then go ahead and drop the coin.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by gavronm

As another poster just mentioned, you are getting way ahead of yourself. Do a couple HPDEs before you start thinking about getting a racing license. You don't even know if you enjoy it yet. I've had friends that were super excited to get on the track but when they finally did decided it wasn't for them. I think a lot of people think it's a lot easier to go fast than it really is and when they're finally out there trying to get the car around the track and the results don't come right away and they realize how much work it takes to get good, they decide to focus their time and money on something else.

^This!

[bmwmsport]

Sounds good, that's the plan.

Found a few things I may attend, BMW CCA is doing an autocross event I plan on attending, plus JustTrackIt has a bunch of stuff coming up, but dang if they aren't $300-$450 a day. That's insane

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by bmwmsport

Sounds good, that's the plan.

Found a few things I may attend, BMW CCA is doing an autocross event I plan on attending, plus JustTrackIt has a bunch of stuff coming up, but dang if they aren't $300-$450 a day. That's insane

My two cents...
Go with a buddy if you can. It's a lot of fun and takes a lot of the anxiety out of the mix when you can go thru it together with someone else.

Don't overthink it for your first 4-5 track days. There have been MANY novice drivers who take it very, very easy on the track their first few times out so they can learn the track, the proper line and their vehicles dynamics.

Watch some YouTube videos of others drivers on the same track. It'll really help you get familiar with the track prior to your track day. You'll already be taking in a lot of new information on your first day, no need to be surprised by every turn.

Get everything prepped well in advance and get plenty of rest the night before. The track day will be one of the best days of your life. But it will be exhausting. Do as much prep work as possible the days before and go to bed at a reasonable hour. You'll want to get to the track early for tech inspection and any last minute prep.

Go have some freaking fun. You'll step away from your track day with one of the biggest grins you've ever had in your life.

Would love to get a report back once you get out there to hear how you did!

[bmwmsport]

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

My two cents...

Would love to get a report back once you get out there to hear how you did!

Sounds good I'll take that all into consideration. Still looking around at a lot of it but I think I'll probably start with the BMW CCA autocross meet. At only $15 its hard to pass up. May not be as good as a full track but it'll be a little experience under my belt.

There are some upcoming open track days that I'll probably start with till I figure out how the actual races and HPDE's are structured.

I'll definitely take some videos and let you all know how it goes.

[briansjacobs]

My initial response is do not even consider thinking about racing school until you have atleast a dozen weekends under your belt. At this point you do not know what you do not know. You first weekend you will realize what you do not know, then you will spend a year trying to learn what you do not know and so on.

Immerse yourself in the HPDE family and culture, do not mod your car, the slower the car is the better for now. Do not get R compound tires till you are SOLO. The shitty street tires will help you become a better driver, R compund is for when you are better, not for learning! Upgrade brake fluid to start, factory pads should be fine to start.

Want to go fast? Want to go really fast? spend your money on HPDE not mods, then spend the money on coaching, not mods.

In the past 20 years I have spent better than $500,000 in this hobby and turned it into a business at one point. Trust me on this. Save your money, if you can not nail it 100% slowly, you sure as hell can not do it fast! And when you want to race...buy a miata!