[avincar]

The response can't really be flattened out with the current setup.

The RF 360.2 has auto adjust AND a 30-band EQ.

The CleanSweep is auto adjust only.

Both seem to get back to flat pretty well.
The 360 COULD displace the LC8 - it takes F, R, and Sub inputs, if memory serves - and retails for $300. It looks like the install should be pretty darned easy - all the needed wires are already in place. The Clean Sweep would plug into the outputs of the LC8.

[Swagger]

I got a reply from Ron at Installations Unlimited. You were right Avincar, he's a really smart dude. He shares your views on my system just about exactly. He even predicted problems that I didn't mention in the email just from taking a look at the list of components that I had installed. (He was dead on about the engine noise!) I'm going to take a ride over there tomorrow. I'll be sure to let you know what Ron's diagnosis is and what steps we're going to take to rectify the situation. Thanks again for the recommendation!

[avincar]

Glad to be of assistance

[ksquare]

Guys,

I have been reading this thread with interest and have learned a lot of things. Just thought of sharing my experience of my setup with all of you.

FYI, my current equipment setup is as follows:-

LC6
A 100X4 channel amp, bi-amped for the fronts
A 75X4 channel amp, bi-amped for the rears
Morel Elates 6 inch 3 way for the front
Morel Elates 6 inch 2 way for the rears

I have the basic OEM system and the original rear signal has the low end signals cut off. What the audio guy did to resolve this was to split the front full range signals to also provide the signals to the rears. He did that before connecting into the LC6 (this is the old version which does not have summing capabilities). (Don't know if this deteriorates the SQ??)

Instead of using the subwoofer signal for the speakers underneath the seats, I installed a 3 way system for the fronts, thus just using the front signals. Also, the mids' signals were inverted (manufacturer's recommendation) and I felt it gave a much more spacious feel/sound.

I adjusted the front/rear balance using the amp. If I used the controls in the LC6, I will hear a hissing sound. I have using this setup for close to a year now and so far it has not given me any troubles.

The audio guy however did not test for the flatness of the signal coming out from the LC6. And I did not question as I thought this is what the LC6 is supposed to do!. He only used the measuring machine to measure the output of the sound from the speakers to check for proper sound balance inside the car.

Guess reading from this thread, I think I should have the signal tested from the LC6 output as well. I have been contemplating upgrading to the DQL8 but I'm having second thoughts now.

[ron@streeteffectz.com]

Soooooooooooooo..........how did it turn out?

[Swagger]

Well, after some serious consideration... I ripped out every last component and started all over again.

The Focal's just didn't seem to be the right speaker for the car and the Memphis amp, in a BMW environment, caused more engine noise than music. Using components in the rear deck also added a lot of hiss.

The biggest problem was that the LC8 was only summing (incorrectly at that!) the signal and not flattening the awful eq that the Logic 7 amp pumps out. This left a lousy signal going into the aftermarket amps which left lousy sound coming out of the speakers.

The native car sounds (door chime, pdc, NAV voice) were being amplified even when the system was at a low volume, the door chime would leave me deaf.

The sub enclosure was just a stock JL enclosure which is fine, but it’s not the right size for the e90 trunk.

Sooo.... like Avincar recommended, I went to see Ron at Installations Unlimited. He worked with me to select the perfect components for the car. Ron went as far to work with an engineer from Harmon Kardon to ensure that what we selected was the best possible integration to BMW's complex Logic 7 setup.

We finally settled on using Morel Hybrid Ovation 4’s (2 way) for the front doors with the ADMW6 3 way add-on for under the front seats.

Morel Integra Ovation 4’s (Coax) were used in the rear doors and the rear deck.

We used an Alpine PDX-4.100 to drive the speakers in the cabin and an Alpine PDX-1.600 to drive the Alpine Type R 10" subs in a custom enclosure firing down in the trunk.

After the stock amp, the signal hits the JL summing module which then passes the signal on to the JL clean sweep. Once all of the channels are properly calibrated (flattened) through the clean sweep, the signal is then passed on to the Alpine amps and the rest is just beautiful music.

At a normal volume the system sounds absolutely incredible. I can hear instruments and parts of songs that I never heard before. The clarity is unreal and the bass is super tight. The under-the-seat replacement Morel’s makes all the difference in the world. Everything is just so crisp and clean.

As I increase the volume, the system doesn’t distort what-so-ever. If I wanted to be heard from down the block, it wouldn’t be a problem. I’ve run just about every type of music through it and everything is reproduced as perfectly as possible.

The only issue that we ran into was the clean sweep volume control. JL recommends that you set your stock volume at about 75% and then calibrate the clean sweep. Once calibrated, JL says to only use the JL volume control, which we mounted on the driver’s seat, next to the other seat controls. This was a problem in a few ways. Now the car sounds were too low and I lost use of the steering wheel volume. (The wife loved that!) Ron contacted JL and they came up with a solution. We set the JL volume at about 75% (where the door chime sounded normal) and then calibrated the clean sweep. Now I can use the stock volume and the system sounds identical to the way it did before the adjustment.

All in all, I couldn’t be happier. The sound is amazing. Avincar, thanks for all of your help and for recommending Ron. You were right, he is the best.

You can see all of the pictures here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76217

[FattyK]

Hu guys,
New to the forum. I've upgraded my professional sound system on my 330i
below is the upgrade work

1- set of hertz 2 way component speaker
2- 90w 4 channel abyss amp
3- wire world wires
4- debrez high to low

the biggest challenge here was not to have any physical changes to the stock setup. only 1 type of hertz speaker could fit (4inch mid and small tweeter). took ages to get the right signal from OEM head unit. how to u guys get that sorted out?
next was the high to low signal. because i'm using stock headunit, i was told that an high to low into the amp is a must. that causes my system to have a hizzzz sound even when volume is at zero and when volume turn to 1 the hizzzz sound becomes louder than music. hence, i've to turn to vol constantly high to overcome that problem. any advice?
the sound is definitely better than original. staging has become higher.
wat can be done about the 6" woofer under the seat?
thanks guy

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Swagger

The only issue that we ran into was the clean sweep volume control. JL recommends that you set your stock volume at about 75% and then calibrate the clean sweep. Once calibrated, JL says to only use the JL volume control, which we mounted on the driver’s seat, next to the other seat controls. This was a problem in a few ways. Now the car sounds were too low and I lost use of the steering wheel volume. (The wife loved that!) Ron contacted JL and they came up with a solution. We set the JL volume at about 75% (where the door chime sounded normal) and then calibrated the clean sweep. Now I can use the stock volume and the system sounds identical to the way it did before the adjustment.

That's great to know...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by FattyK

Hu guys,
New to the forum. I've upgraded my professional sound system on my 330i
below is the upgrade work

1- set of hertz 2 way component speaker
2- 90w 4 channel abyss amp
3- wire world wires
4- debrez high to low

the biggest challenge here was not to have any physical changes to the stock setup. only 1 type of hertz speaker could fit (4inch mid and small tweeter). took ages to get the right signal from OEM head unit. how to u guys get that sorted out?
next was the high to low signal. because i'm using stock headunit, i was told that an high to low into the amp is a must. that causes my system to have a hizzzz sound even when volume is at zero and when volume turn to 1 the hizzzz sound becomes louder than music. hence, i've to turn to vol constantly high to overcome that problem. any advice?
the sound is definitely better than original. staging has become higher.
wat can be done about the 6" woofer under the seat?
thanks guy

I guess that you have the HiFi system and not the Top HiFi system (Logic 7).

What aftermarket amp do you have?

How do you connected the OEM HU to that amp?

[FattyK]

Originally Posted by Technic

I guess that you have the HiFi system and not the Top HiFi system (Logic 7).

What aftermarket amp do you have?

How do you connected the OEM HU to that amp?

Yes, its the Hifi System, not logic 7.

I'm using an abyss (used to make trutech amp) , 90w x 4 channel.

Connected from HU to amp using audison RCA and Debez high to low.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by FattyK

Yes, its the Hifi System, not logic 7.

I'm using an abyss (used to make trutech amp) , 90w x 4 channel.

Connected from HU to amp using audison RCA and Debez high to low.

That "Debez" high to low, do you know if it is balanced signal compatible?

[FattyK]

Originally Posted by Technic

That "Debez" high to low, do you know if it is balanced signal compatible?

I've no idea about whether its balanced signal compatible. The audio shop told me tat it maybe due to low quality of debez high to low tat causes the hizzing sound. he now recommend me to upgrade to an audison high to low or an audio control LC6.
any other suggestions? thanks

[Technic]

Originally Posted by FattyK

I've no idea about whether its balanced signal compatible. The audio shop told me tat it maybe due to low quality of debez high to low tat causes the hizzing sound. he now recommend me to upgrade to an audison high to low or an audio control LC6.
any other suggestions? thanks

If you are using a High to Low converter (LOC) with that amp I would have to assume that that amp cannot accept balanced signals. Check the specs of that amp to determine what kind of signal topology (balanced/differential or un-balanced/non-differential) it will accept. Maybe, just maybe you will not need to use any LOC, like in the JL Audio or Alpine PDX amps.

If your amp accepts differential inputs then you will only need to make your OEM HU output wires into RCA jacks. Buy 4 of those jacks at your local audio shop, and solder each output channel of the OEM HU into a jack (positive signal is the center pin), or get a set of male RCA cables, cut it in half and connect the OEM HU wires to the wires coming out of that RCA cable. That will give you 4 RCA jacks for you to connect them straight to the amp.

Otherwise (IMO), get the Audiocontrol LC6i, it is an active converter: https://resources.myeporia.com/Company_38/LC6i_OM.pdf If you want to go ahead anyway and create the RCA jacks out of the OEM HU wire outputs, then you could get an Audiocontrol Matrix, which will also convert that balanced inputs to un-balanced outputs but it is primarily a straight Line Driver: https://resources.myeporia.com/Company_38/matrix_OM.pdf

This will mean that not only it will convert the balanced outputs of your OEM HU to un-balanced for your amp but it will allow you to set the amp gains to minimum and adjust only the output level up to 7.5V per channel at the active device. This will increase the signal to noise ratio of your OEM HU considerably.

If you decide to get any of these active devices, you will need to set the internal "jumpers" to balanced inputs, ground outputs. Otherwise you will have the same/more noise problems than you have now.

If you have the budget, I would get instead the Audiocontrol DQL-8: https://resources.myeporia.com/Compa...s%20Manual.pdf The RCA version (less expensive) is the DQXS: https://resources.myeporia.com/Compa...QXS_Manual.pdf

Either accomplish what the LC6i/Matrix does, but now you will have a DSP/EQ/Crossover processor. Not only it will convert those balanced signals into non-balanced, it will allow you to DSP/EQ/Crossover the OEM HU signal into a maximum of 8 channels, including subs. All while increasing also the OEM HU processed output level to 7.5V per channel. Again, these unit internal jumpers have to be set to balanced inputs, ground output for better functionality.

[FattyK]

Originally Posted by Technic

If you are using a High to Low converter (LOC) with that amp I would have to assume that that amp cannot accept balanced signals. Check the specs of that amp to determine what kind of signal topology (balanced/differential or un-balanced/non-differential) it will accept. Maybe, just maybe you will not need to use any LOC, like in the JL Audio or Alpine PDX amps.

If your amp accepts differential inputs then you will only need to make your OEM HU output wires into RCA jacks. Buy 4 of those jacks at your local audio shop, and solder each output channel of the OEM HU into a jack (positive signal is the center pin), or get a set of male RCA cables, cut it in half and connect the OEM HU wires to the wires coming out of that RCA cable. That will give you 4 RCA jacks for you to connect them straight to the amp.

Otherwise (IMO), get the Audiocontrol LC6i, it is an active converter: https://resources.myeporia.com/Company_38/LC6i_OM.pdf If you want to go ahead anyway and create the RCA jacks out of the OEM HU wire outputs, then you could get an Audiocontrol Matrix, which will also convert that balanced inputs to un-balanced outputs but it is primarily a straight Line Driver: https://resources.myeporia.com/Company_38/matrix_OM.pdf

This will mean that not only it will convert the balanced outputs of your OEM HU to un-balanced for your amp but it will allow you to set the amp gains to minimum and adjust only the output level up to 7.5V per channel at the active device. This will increase the signal to noise ratio of your OEM HU considerably.

If you decide to get any of these active devices, you will need to set the internal "jumpers" to balanced inputs, ground outputs. Otherwise you will have the same/more noise problems than you have now.

If you have the budget, I would get instead the Audiocontrol DQL-8: https://resources.myeporia.com/Compa...s%20Manual.pdf The RCA version (less expensive) is the DQXS: https://resources.myeporia.com/Compa...QXS_Manual.pdf

Either accomplish what the LC6i/Matrix does, but now you will have a DSP/EQ/Crossover processor. Not only it will convert those balanced signals into non-balanced, it will allow you to DSP/EQ/Crossover the OEM HU signal into a maximum of 8 channels, including subs. All while increasing also the OEM HU processed output level to 7.5V per channel. Again, these unit internal jumpers have to be set to balanced inputs, ground output for better functionality.

Thanks a million technic...
i'll feedback this info to the audioshop. Btw, how much does the audiocontrol LC6 cost in US? wat's the difference between LC6 and DQL-8? in term of price and performance. i just want to get rid of the irritating hizzing sound.
Also, will the sound improve alot if i would to go active in the front set of 2 way speaker using an active crossover with my 4 channel amp. i've terminated the rear speaker as i left it stock std & does not want it to interfear with the front sound. anyway, who cares about the passenger when i'm driving the car 99% of the time... hehe...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by FattyK

Thanks a million technic...
i'll feedback this info to the audioshop. Btw, how much does the audiocontrol LC6 cost in US? wat's the difference between LC6 and DQL-8? in term of price and performance. i just want to get rid of the irritating hizzing sound.
Also, will the sound improve alot if i would to go active in the front set of 2 way speaker using an active crossover with my 4 channel amp. i've terminated the rear speaker as i left it stock std & does not want it to interfear with the front sound. anyway, who cares about the passenger when i'm driving the car 99% of the time... hehe...

An LC6i is around $130-$150 in the USA, the DQL-8 can go from $450 to $500... the first is just an active LOC, the second is an active LOC and a DSP processor.

Active is more efficient than passive crossovers, so yes, it will sound better than passive if everything is equal. To say that the sound will improve a lot is not as clear cut, though. You will have more adjustments in the Active crossover than in the passive, so unless you are skilled in using those adjustments, you could end up having a poor sounding set up if you over/underdone the adjustments. Something to consider...