How does this happen!!?! Paint cracked after dealer visit

nomis_nehc · 10-19-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nferber

hail damage? you have no idea what you are talking about do you?

Seriously. Hail damage does not look like that. Plus it would be all over the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwiksilverA4

the car was dirty, and i needed to make a run for an interview at apple... they did mention they did NOT wash it and left it outside in the rain.

i was just at the dealer raising hell and now they are telling me the paint is NOT factory. i bought the car with 30k from the dealer i brought it to. car fax says no accidents. so for all we know at this point it could have been a repaint unclaimed. my other panels are untouched... weird...
im clueless as to how i can handle this with them to move forward. i cant pinpoint it to bmw paint or some cheap body shop painting it. i have no records..... i think im fuxxored.

Kind of strange that they didn't wash the car if you didn't tell them not to.

But yah, sorry buddy, it's a shitty situation to say the least.

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 02:25 PM

its not a fluids on the paint issue, you would see run lines if that was the case

it looks like crazing = paint failure and separation

only thing to do is repaint it

might have been a shitty, fast repaint for whatever reason prior to pickup

Question:
Why was it there for 6 days? what was it originally in for? a quick 2-3 day tuneup or something? I never heard of a dealership needing a car for a week for a 30K tuneup...unless it was something else, seems like a long (but enough) time to mess up the hood, and then have it fixed and painted. I would try to take paint readings, and also see if there is a clearcoat on the hood. Take some compound on a cloth and rub in a circle...if it comes up color, no clear, if it comes up no color, cleared. This will tell you if its been repainted if there is no clear...and make it obvious as to what happened.

QwiksilverA4 · 10-19-2011, 02:40 PM

answer:
the car was in there for 2-3 days but the weekend floated over and i was sick on monday. i picked it up tuesday.thats why it was there for 6 days. where can i go to have it measured?

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 02:42 PM

Crazing

Crazing describes small cracks that appear in the finish. Generally, these cracks are quite numerous and have random axis, resembling a dry lake bed. They are akin to the crazing seen in pottery glazes.

Crazing is caused when two materials bonded together expand or contract at different rates causing lateral surface forces greater than the strength of bond. The expansion and contraction can be caused by thermal, chemical, or mechanical forces. Crazing can appear at any adhesion interface including that between substrate and primer, between primer and basecoat, or between basecoat and clear coat.

It is often easy to determine which adhesion point cracks and whether or not the cause is thermal. If it is thermal related, as usually is the case, it is often easy to determine the conditions under which the crazing occurs, e.g. which stage of heating or cooling. Usually, thermally induced crazing is controllable, either by less abrupt temperature changes or by using materials with more closely matched coefficient of expansions.

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 02:43 PM

find a detailer in your area with a PTG. might have to pay for their time, but it would be worth it.

PTG = paint thickness gauge

or go to a bodyshop and do the same

ZURICH · 10-19-2011, 02:50 PM

Hi OP, Have not read all the posts but have seen this before whilst serving in the Army. A new landrover was being dried out after a short swim and was tucked up in a shed for the weekend with a couple of diesel "Jet engine" hot air blowers aimed at it, the result was the same, sustained heat for a few days totally crazed the paintwork, and Army paintwork is soooo tough. so I would say either a radient heat source, like an infra red lamp used at body shops to cure paint has been left on very close or some other direct heat has been applied for several hoursand just cooked the shit out of the paint.

Is it possible a high wattage lamp was left on under the bonnet over a few days? this could have the same effect. have you checked directly underneath the damage? I don't care what the dealership says, they were in control of the car, their fault, period. if you took a loaner car back like that and said, Ahhh dodgy paintwork, not my fault! they would have a fucking cow man!!! check underneath the Hood/Bonnet for any sign of sabotage. keep us informed and give em MORE hell. Kev

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZURICH

Is it possible a high wattage lamp was left on under the bonnet over a few days? this could have the same effect. have you checked directly underneath the damage? I don't care what the dealership says, they were in control of the car, their fault, period. if you took a loaner car back like that and said, Ahhh dodgy paintwork, not my fault! they would have a fucking cow man!!! check underneath the Hood/Bonnet for any sign of sabotage. keep us informed and give em MORE hell. Kev

agreed! if you had their loaner and this happened, it would be your fault

mike3000fl · 10-19-2011, 02:56 PM

did the dealer note the damage when you took the car in originally? they usually write down damage to cover their ass.

i wonder if the dealer damaged the hood (deep scratch, dent) somehow and then had it repainted in a rush before you picked it up? the quick paint job later cracked? look for signs of a paint job. overspray etc. call some body shops, see if they painted a hood over the weekend.

lucius · 10-19-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike3000fl

did the dealer note the damage when you took the car in originally? they usually write down damage to cover their ass.

This...

Aren't most dealerships equipped with security cameras?

Kolyan2k · 10-19-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwiksilverA4

the car was dirty, and i needed to make a run for an interview at apple... they did mention they did NOT wash it and left it outside in the rain.

i was just at the dealer raising hell and now they are telling me the paint is NOT factory. i bought the car with 30k from the dealer i brought it to. car fax says no accidents. so for all we know at this point it could have been a repaint unclaimed. my other panels are untouched... weird...
im clueless as to how i can handle this with them to move forward. i cant pinpoint it to bmw paint or some cheap body shop painting it. i have no records..... i think im fuxxored.

probably shitty pain job gone bad. i dont know much about this, but there is a tool that checks if the car has been repainted...car dealers usually have it

in any way this shouldnt be expensive to fix

Timothy J · 10-19-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwiksilverA4

the car was dirty, and i needed to make a run for an interview at apple... they did mention they did NOT wash it and left it outside in the rain.

i was just at the dealer raising hell and now they are telling me the paint is NOT factory. i bought the car with 30k from the dealer i brought it to. car fax says no accidents. so for all we know at this point it could have been a repaint unclaimed. my other panels are untouched... weird...
im clueless as to how i can handle this with them to move forward. i cant pinpoint it to bmw paint or some cheap body shop painting it. i have no records..... i think im fuxxored.

You can measure the paint. I believe it's measured in Microns. Can't remember the name of the tool however. A body shop might help you out.

edit- From Eric above: paint thickness gauge

Measure various parts of the car and then take a measuring of the hood.

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike3000fl

did the dealer note the damage when you took the car in originally? they usually write down damage to cover their ass.

i wonder if the dealer damaged the hood (deep scratch, dent) somehow and then had it repainted in a rush before you picked it up? the quick paint job later cracked? look for signs of a paint job. overspray etc. call some body shops, see if they painted a hood over the weekend.

a body shop is not going to rat out a dealership which send them a lot of business...I wouldnt waste time there

Kolyan2k · 10-19-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

a body shop is not going to rat out a dealership which send them a lot of business...I wouldnt waste time there

yeah calling bodyshops is not a good idea....

Timothy J · 10-19-2011, 03:40 PM

A body shop that doesn't deal with the dealership is not a good idea? Ok.

mike3000fl · 10-19-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

a body shop is not going to rat out a dealership which send them a lot of business...I wouldnt waste time there

dont be envious, eric.

its worth a try. pretend you are the dealership, "hey this is john from Fuckyourcarup BMW, is that hood painted yet?"

"yea we finished it last week"

mike3000fl · 10-19-2011, 03:51 PM

maybe it isnt even your hood? any vins or way of knowing?

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 03:53 PM

well, the guy who mentioned that was trying to tell the OP to find the shop that potentially did the repaint (if thats in deed what happended). I was telling him it wouldnt be in the bodyshops best interest to rat out the dealership.

You would be surprised at how many repaints happen between delivery to the dealership to the delivery to the client! scratches, dents, accidents happen. They are not going to junk a car if someone drops something on the hood of a car, splits a fender while moving cars around, etc...

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike3000fl

dont be envious, eric.

its worth a try. pretend you are the dealership, "hey this is john from Fuckyourcarup BMW, is that hood painted yet?"

"yea we finished it last week"

LOL, yeah, that will work and lead to some possible jail time for false impersonation...nice advice!

mike3000fl · 10-19-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

LOL, yeah, that will work and lead to some possible jail time for false impersonation...nice advice!

quit your hating. did you damage the car? you seem defensive as fuck.

screw jail time, this is an investigation. his car is damaged and dealer is playing dumb.

false impersonation applies in CA if you mean harm to the person you are impersonating AND THE PERSON MUST BE REAL...
http://www.shouselaw.com/false-impersonation.html

"False personation…more commonly referred to as false impersonation…takes place when you falsely assume the identity of another person in order to gain a personal benefit or cause harm to the other person.

This definition necessarily implies that the person whom you are impersonating is a real person and not a fictitious one…even if the individual is deceased.3

Example: The police detain you for shoplifting. When the officer asks your name, you reply James Bond. Because James Bond isn’t a real person, you would not be guilty of violating California’s false impersonation law"

nice try chump, silly ewwwic

Envious Eric · 10-19-2011, 04:18 PM

LOL, ok ok, lets end the side convo, we can go back and forth on the topic

OP, do you have any recent pictures of the car/hood to prove it wasnt like that before you dropped it off?

kyleJB328 · 10-19-2011, 04:21 PM

ALIENS. that's all I can say.

mike3000fl · 10-19-2011, 04:23 PM

edited since we are dropping the sidebar

10-19-2011, 02:25 PM	#46
Envious Eric Banned 37 Rep 1,168 Posts Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: orange county, ca iTrader: (1)	its not a fluids on the paint issue, you would see run lines if that was the case it looks like crazing = paint failure and separation only thing to do is repaint it might have been a shitty, fast repaint for whatever reason prior to pickup Question: Why was it there for 6 days? what was it originally in for? a quick 2-3 day tuneup or something? I never heard of a dealership needing a car for a week for a 30K tuneup...unless it was something else, seems like a long (but enough) time to mess up the hood, and then have it fixed and painted. I would try to take paint readings, and also see if there is a clearcoat on the hood. Take some compound on a cloth and rub in a circle...if it comes up color, no clear, if it comes up no color, cleared. This will tell you if its been repainted if there is no clear...and make it obvious as to what happened.
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10-19-2011, 02:40 PM	#47
QwiksilverA4 Private First Class 11 Rep 181 Posts Drives: 2000 Audi S4, 2008 E90 335i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Downtown Vietnam, San Jose - CA iTrader: (0)	answer: the car was in there for 2-3 days but the weekend floated over and i was sick on monday. i picked it up tuesday.thats why it was there for 6 days. where can i go to have it measured? __________________ 19" LE 37-D2 Coilovers-E90 M3 body-JB3-DCI
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10-19-2011, 02:42 PM	#48
Envious Eric Banned 37 Rep 1,168 Posts Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: orange county, ca iTrader: (1)	Crazing Crazing describes small cracks that appear in the finish. Generally, these cracks are quite numerous and have random axis, resembling a dry lake bed. They are akin to the crazing seen in pottery glazes. Crazing is caused when two materials bonded together expand or contract at different rates causing lateral surface forces greater than the strength of bond. The expansion and contraction can be caused by thermal, chemical, or mechanical forces. Crazing can appear at any adhesion interface including that between substrate and primer, between primer and basecoat, or between basecoat and clear coat. It is often easy to determine which adhesion point cracks and whether or not the cause is thermal. If it is thermal related, as usually is the case, it is often easy to determine the conditions under which the crazing occurs, e.g. which stage of heating or cooling. Usually, thermally induced crazing is controllable, either by less abrupt temperature changes or by using materials with more closely matched coefficient of expansions.
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10-19-2011, 02:43 PM	#49
Envious Eric Banned 37 Rep 1,168 Posts Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: orange county, ca iTrader: (1)	find a detailer in your area with a PTG. might have to pay for their time, but it would be worth it. PTG = paint thickness gauge or go to a bodyshop and do the same
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10-19-2011, 02:50 PM	#50
ZURICH Major 41 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: E91 320d Touring M Sport Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wettingen iTrader: (0)	Hi OP, Have not read all the posts but have seen this before whilst serving in the Army. A new landrover was being dried out after a short swim and was tucked up in a shed for the weekend with a couple of diesel "Jet engine" hot air blowers aimed at it, the result was the same, sustained heat for a few days totally crazed the paintwork, and Army paintwork is soooo tough. so I would say either a radient heat source, like an infra red lamp used at body shops to cure paint has been left on very close or some other direct heat has been applied for several hoursand just cooked the shit out of the paint. Is it possible a high wattage lamp was left on under the bonnet over a few days? this could have the same effect. have you checked directly underneath the damage? I don't care what the dealership says, they were in control of the car, their fault, period. if you took a loaner car back like that and said, Ahhh dodgy paintwork, not my fault! they would have a fucking cow man!!! check underneath the Hood/Bonnet for any sign of sabotage. keep us informed and give em MORE hell. Kev __________________ M Sport Package, (PDC), front / rear, Cruise control Mystic Blue Metallic, Beige Dakota leather, Alarm, Automatic transmission, Panoramic glass roof, Heated Seats, Lumbar etc etc "I don't Fuck around but when I do, I dont fuck around"
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10-19-2011, 02:56 PM	#52
mike3000fl Banned 138 Rep 2,731 Posts Drives: 06 330i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0)	did the dealer note the damage when you took the car in originally? they usually write down damage to cover their ass. i wonder if the dealer damaged the hood (deep scratch, dent) somehow and then had it repainted in a rush before you picked it up? the quick paint job later cracked? look for signs of a paint job. overspray etc. call some body shops, see if they painted a hood over the weekend.
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10-19-2011, 03:40 PM	#58
Timothy J Captain 49 Rep 752 Posts Drives: Too much Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY iTrader: (1)	A body shop that doesn't deal with the dealership is not a good idea? Ok. __________________ 2001 Chevy 2500HD Duramax 2003 VW Jetta TDI 2012 BMW F800GS 2024 BMW M2 BSM 6MT Carbon Package
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10-19-2011, 03:51 PM	#60
mike3000fl Banned 138 Rep 2,731 Posts Drives: 06 330i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0)	maybe it isnt even your hood? any vins or way of knowing?
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10-19-2011, 03:53 PM	#61
Envious Eric Banned 37 Rep 1,168 Posts Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: orange county, ca iTrader: (1)	well, the guy who mentioned that was trying to tell the OP to find the shop that potentially did the repaint (if thats in deed what happended). I was telling him it wouldnt be in the bodyshops best interest to rat out the dealership. You would be surprised at how many repaints happen between delivery to the dealership to the delivery to the client! scratches, dents, accidents happen. They are not going to junk a car if someone drops something on the hood of a car, splits a fender while moving cars around, etc...
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10-19-2011, 04:18 PM	#64
Envious Eric Banned 37 Rep 1,168 Posts Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: orange county, ca iTrader: (1)	LOL, ok ok, lets end the side convo, we can go back and forth on the topic OP, do you have any recent pictures of the car/hood to prove it wasnt like that before you dropped it off? Last edited by Envious Eric; 10-19-2011 at 04:24 PM..
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10-19-2011, 04:21 PM	#65
kyleJB328 coast2coast 9 Rep 201 Posts Drives: '11 E90 SG/OY-'08 E70 BS/B Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: 02108-Boston iTrader: (0)	ALIENS. that's all I can say. __________________ 2011 328i Space Grey/Oyster-X-Drive, ZSP, ZVP, ZPP, ZCP, CWP,Heated Steering Wheel, Nav, BMW Apps 2008 BMW X5 4.8i BSM/Black/Bamboo-ZSP, Premium Sound, ZCP
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10-19-2011, 04:23 PM	#66
mike3000fl Banned 138 Rep 2,731 Posts Drives: 06 330i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0)	edited since we are dropping the sidebar Last edited by mike3000fl; 10-19-2011 at 04:36 PM..
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