[beanster64]

I have an UK 2009 335i that I currently fill with Premium fuel, will the new E10 be compatible with the higher E97, E98 & E99 fuels (bp ultimate, Tesco momentum & Shell V Power)
?
Is E5 an alternative?

Thanks

[0l0dom0l0]

Super will remain as E5

[therealdb1]

Don't get confused by E5 and E10.

These numbers relate to the percentage of ethanol contained in the fuel and we have all been using (UK at least) E5 for years without really knowing or caring. E10 is a new kid on the block where the fuel producers are doubling the ethanol content to make the fuel "greener" but, of course, if you put more ethanol in you have to take something useful out!

The 95, 97 and 99 numbers we are familar with are octane ratings and nothing to do with ethanol content although as 0l0dom0l0 says the premium fuel will remain E5.... for now!

It is more of an issue for older engines, and by older I mean 30 - 40 years plus, since some of the materials used in their construction were never designed to run these modern fuels and you can get problems like seals leaking etc.

Also, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE, if you are a very low mileage driver, ethanol can take on water in much the same way as brake fluid but the problem here is it will then separate out from the burnable fuel in your tank so you end up with ethanol laden with water in the bottom of your tank. Since fuel pick-ups are by their nature in the bottom of your tank, if there is sufficient ethanol/water at the bottom of your tank this shall be pumped to the engine and it will not run!

Of course, the more ethanol in the fuel to start with the more of a problem this becomes so if, like me, you only drive 1000 miles or so a year in any particular car pay particular attention to the fuel you fill it with and stick with the lowest ethanol content even if it means swapping to premium fuel.

[Chapperss]

We use ron not octane in the UK - if you`ve mapped using oct thinking the numbers on the pump reflect that measurement you should probably go back and remap.

for comparison on MHD 93oct seems to be equall to 98ron - same box.

[0l0dom0l0]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

We use ron not octane in the UK - if you`ve mapped using oct thinking the numbers on the pump reflect that measurement you should probably go back and remap.

for comparison on MHD 93oct seems to be equall to 98ron - same box.

Eh? RON is a way to measure octane, it stands for research octane number.

The Americans use a different measurement to establish what is displayed on the pump - they take an average of RON and MON (motored octane number). The second is always lower.

For example 95 in the UK is roughly equivalent to 91 in the states, but the fuels octane is the same.

[therealdb1]

RON is an acronym for Research Octane Number so it is an indication of octane content of the fuel.

The point I was making is it has nothing to do with the ethanol content indicated by E5 and E10 and it is also nothing to do whether you are running a bog standard BMW factory map or some fancy tweaks derived on a rolling road.

Larger ethanol content is bad news to those owners with old engines or low mileage use and is something that governments and fuel suppliers will not tell you.

Just like no one mentioned high sulphur fuels until Land Rover, BMW, Mercedes etc. got their fingers burnt by having to replace almost brand new Nikasil lined engines under guarantee!!!

[Chapperss]

I learned something new today

MHD just has OCT and RON as the different options and I thought that the OCT stood for Octane

[Andyrt200]

I live in an area in the UK where access to 99ron E5 is tricky so I just run the 95ron map on my 335i. It had been just fine on MHD stage 2+ for the last year or so.

But obviously 95 ron has now changed to E10. The guidelines just say all BMWs run fine on E10 which is obviously crap I can’t see it being great for the proper old classics.
We also have an E39 & there is a lot more discussion on those forums about the cleaning nature of E10, apparently it can dislodge crap that can get stuck in the injectors etc.
When the E5 first came out it made all the rubber pipes in our TVR go hard, crack & leak badly. Hopefully that’s not the case with any BMWs!

Of possibly more interest is ethanol’s resistance to knock. I wonder if MHD are going to do a 95ron E10 map now?! I think it’s available all over Europe…

[therealdb1]

For the last year or so your 95 RON has probably been E5 anyway so it should have been ok. E10 only really came in officially on 1st September in the UK.

The other thing fuel companies and government do not tell you is the E10 fuel only reduces the quantity of CO2 produced for a certain quantity burnt when compared to that same quantity of E5. The problem is that E10 provides less energy for the same quantity and your car does less mpg so you create more of all of the other pollutants into the atmosphere under the pretence of going green. You also need to spend more on fuel, of course, which benefits the fuel company and HMRC with what they skim off the additional gallons you are using!

It's deja vu with when we we all forced to stop using 4* petrol and use unleaded instead. Sure reduced the lead but increased everything else!!!

There is an agenda here and you ain't helping to save the planet!

[beanster64]

Thanks All

[Chapperss]

Just because this seems a good place to put it and carry on this topic.

Why in the UK are we selling E5 as the premium yet from my understanding E30/E50 mixes are more desirable premium for our platform? Is it that we have the unique ability to add more fuel on this platform and the cooling effect is just so beneficial and ehere as every other car its considered a negative?

I had to get E5 at the local garage yesterday (for the lawnmower), cost £1.55 per litre

[therealdb1]

What makes you believe higher ethanol content is more desirable?

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by therealdb1

For the last year or so your 95 RON has probably been E5 anyway so it should have been ok. E10 only really came in officially on 1st September in the UK.

The other thing fuel companies and government do not tell you is the E10 fuel only reduces the quantity of CO2 produced for a certain quantity burnt when compared to that same quantity of E5. The problem is that E10 provides less energy for the same quantity and your car does less mpg so you create more of all of the other pollutants into the atmosphere under the pretence of going green. You also need to spend more on fuel, of course, which benefits the fuel company and HMRC with what they skim off the additional gallons you are using!

It's deja vu with when we we all forced to stop using 4* petrol and use unleaded instead. Sure reduced the lead but increased everything else!!!

There is an agenda here and you ain't helping to save the planet!

Fuck! I better stock up on tin foil so I don't run out of hats.

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by therealdb1

What makes you believe higher ethanol content is more desirable?

Because I swear that i've read on here numerous times people running higher ethanol to get more power out of the platform.

[therealdb1]

Perhaps they live in an alternative universe where the laws of chemistry do not apply! Or perhaps South America where they run engines on alcohol anyway?

The energy content of 95 RON petrol is around 44 MJ/kg whereas ethanol is about 23 MJ/kg.

So take out some of the higher energy stuff and replace it with lower energy stuff doesn't give you more power.

Even the RAC state that fuel consumption increases by about 3% when you switch from E5 to E10 petrol so you need to use more petrol to get the same power. That is only an increase in consumption not power.

You're not thinking of nitro-methane, are you?

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by therealdb1

Perhaps they live in an alternative universe where the laws of chemistry do not apply! Or perhaps South America where they run engines on alcohol anyway?

The energy content of 95 RON petrol is around 44 MJ/kg whereas ethanol is about 23 MJ/kg.

So take out some of the higher energy stuff and replace it with lower energy stuff doesn't give you more power.

Even the RAC state that fuel consumption increases by about 3% when you switch from E5 to E10 petrol so you need to use more petrol to get the same power. That is only an increase in consumption not power.

You're not thinking of nitro-methane, are you?

This is the kind of conversations I`m referring to. Coming from our American cousins where this kind of fuel is widely available. including E85.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1614975

I`m not questioning your stats. Just trying to understand the reasoning behind our cars being able to run more power using this fuel.

I`m guessing it is because of the cooling effect or maybe knock resistance as that poster mentions. Taking in to consideration what you are saying it sound like we would use a lot more fuel too, as talk of keeping an eye on the lpfp is mentioned and most recommend an upgraded one for e50 plus.

Just thought it would be cool to know and it would be great if the UK thought e30 was a cheaper fuel and I can get more power for less money.

[therealdb1]

Now I see your question is entirely hypothetical.
The stuff they are talking about is not available in the UK!

Anyway, if you read the thread properly they are not talking about higher ethanol content providing you more power. What they say is more ethanol reduces the knock characteristic meaning that you can advance the ignition and tune your engine more.

So as saving money goes, in order to get that holy grail of more power that you hanker for, you need to spend more money on upgrading your turbos and run more boost, pay for yet another series of maps that you can switch between depending on which fuel you can get hold of so that your engine doesn't self detonate if you have to use ordinary petrol like the rest of us, and use considerably more fuel to drive the same number of miles into the bargain. Oh, budget for a new fuel pump too!

And you were upset in having to pay £1.55 for a litre of E5! Still interested in higher ethanol?

I'm lobbying for E0 for instant increased power without spending any more but I won't hold my breath!

[ky0u]

Originally Posted by Chapperss

I`m guessing it is because of the cooling effect or maybe knock resistance as that poster mentions. Taking in to consideration what you are saying it sound like we would use a lot more fuel too, as talk of keeping an eye on the lpfp is mentioned and most recommend an upgraded one for e50 plus.

Yes, this is the key here. And you've also noted the trade off of needing a higher volume of fuel to compensate. This is specifically the reason why cars running higher e content have to upgrade their LPFP.

US has run e10 as default on most pumps since like the 90s iirc. But the threshold for our cars on stock hardware seems to be lower than e50. Most e9x can handle up to e20-30 without any issues (some variances depending on health of your pumps). but past that generally is where things may start to go lean or crash

EDIT: Figured i'd mention this. Something that sparks up every so often when ethanol is discussed is speculation that ethanol might be a contributing factor for the HPFP / injector failures that present itself on this platform. Hence, things like the Injector recall effecting US Based models. Take this with a grain of salt however, as it seems everytime the debate sparks up, it devolves into a shit flinging contest so it's hard to get a concrete answer.

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by ky0u

Yes, this is the key here. And you've also noted the trade off of needing a higher volume of fuel to compensate. This is specifically the reason why cars running higher e content have to upgrade their LPFP.

US has run e10 as default on most pumps since like the 90s iirc. But the threshold for our cars on stock hardware seems to be lower than e50. Most e9x can handle up to e20-30 without any issues (some variances depending on health of your pumps). but past that generally is where things may start to go lean or crash

EDIT: Figured i'd mention this. Something that sparks up every so often when ethanol is discussed is speculation that ethanol might be a contributing factor for the HPFP / injector failures that present itself on this platform. Hence, things like the Injector recall effecting US Based models. Take this with a grain of salt however, as it seems everytime the debate sparks up, it devolves into a shit flinging contest so it's hard to get a concrete answer.

Thanks Ky0u, that`s what I was looking for.

[dephrank]

Originally Posted by beanster64

I have an UK 2009 335i that I currently fill with Premium fuel, will the new E10 be compatible with the higher E97, E98 & E99 fuels (bp ultimate, Tesco momentum & Shell V Power)
?
Is E5 an alternative?

Thanks

I drive an 09 LCI 318i and she performs/sounds better on V-power. Your 335i is a performance car. Wouldn't put anything but premium fuel in it and I'd try sticking to one brand as well.

[beanster64]

Originally Posted by dephrank

I drive an 09 LCI 318i and she performs/sounds better on V-power. Your 335i is a performance car. Wouldn't put anything but premium fuel in it and I'd try sticking to one brand as well.

Agree, as soon as I switched to Premium fuel my 335i is much happier

[therealdb1]

Lucky if you can buy fuel of any grade at the moment!

I've had to spend the last two weekends at home because none of the filling stations around here have any.