[Skyline18]

Hello Guys,

I started using I**A recently and im a bit confused about the N52/N52K Engine Selection when selecting the Engine.

N52 MSV70 N52K MSV80

How can I tell which one I have?

My car is a 2005 E90 325i

and what can happen if I select the wrong one?

Another question:

Ive replaced my vanos solenoids 2 months ago which solved my error codes and rough idle. Didnt reset adaptions when I replaced them. Do I have to do that now or is it adapted already by driving?

And, last question:

Ive got a sporadic, not regulary short vibration when Idling. Idle RPM is around 550. Its not so bad, but its noticeable. When I press the clutch, the vibration stops. When I depress the clutch, I get a short vibration every like 3 or 5 seconds. This only happens in operation temperature. When the car is cold and in heatmode, these vibrations dont occur. Does this refer to mass flywheel?

Dont know if it has something to do with it, but when starting cold ive got less power for about 20-30 seconds, then turns back to normal power.

I can reach vmax without problems and it accelerates like it should when warm.

Sorry for my bad english..

Thanks in advance!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Skyline18

...I started using I**A recently and im a bit confused about the N52/N52K Engine Selection when selecting the Engine.
N52 MSV70 / N52K MSV80
1) How can I tell which one I have? My car is a 2005 E90 325i and what can happen if I select the wrong one?
2) Ive replaced my vanos solenoids 2 months ago which solved my error codes and rough idle. Didnt reset adaptions when I replaced them. Do I have to do that now or is it adapted already by driving?
3) Ive got a sporadic, not regulary short vibration when Idling. Idle RPM is around 550. Its not so bad, but its noticeable. When I press the clutch, the vibration stops. When I depress the clutch, I get a short vibration every like 3 or 5 seconds. This only happens in operation temperature. When the car is cold and in heatmode, these vibrations dont occur. Does this refer to mass flywheel?
Dont know if it has something to do with it, but when starting cold ive got less power for about 20-30 seconds, then turns back to normal power.
I can reach vmax without problems and it accelerates like it should when warm...

Your English is MUCH BETTER than my German!
Since you're in Germany, INPA ought to work well for YOU. Two ways to quickly see the SGBD (Steuergeratebeschreibungsdatei ;-) of the DME, using INPA:
1) INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification. SGBD is in 4th column for EACH of your ~ 20 Modules. See attached pdf regarding INPA initial use.
2) INPA > DME (pick either MSV70/MSV80) > F1 Information. Provides Info for DME ONLY (deutsch).

In US Market, the MSV70 Variant/SGBD DME was used on all 325i engines, but then the 328 replaced 325i in 2007 models, and MSV80 was used for ALL US N52/N51 engines from 2007 onward. ECE market may vary from that.

Clicking/opening WRONG SGBD/Variant for DME does NOT harm anything. You actually get most of the correct info even if wrong SGBD selected, but should determine WHICH SGBD of each Module is installed in YOUR vehicle. Attempting to connect to SOME Modules (such as Fuel Pump, EKPS) using wrong SGBD will result in Error Message.

Adaptations: As I understand it, Adaptations are updated/overwritten on each drive cycle. After TWO MONTHS, NO Problem!

Idle Speed: 550 RPM is a bit low for Idle speed (Leerlaufdrehzahl). You can adjust idle speed setpoint (LL-Sollwert) using INPA:
INPA > DME > F9 System Diagnosen > F5 LL-Drehzahl verstellen
Mine is set at 660

Vibration: I don't have MT so can't offer any expertise on vibration that goes away when pressure plate springs are compressed with clutch pedal being pressed. Does vibration ONLY occur at idle when in Neutral, or does it occur while driving/ moving, in ALL gears? Does it vary with engine torque/load? Is Clutch Slave Cylinder Loose?

Obviously, if there is ANYTHING loose in the Pressure Plate/ Flywheel area, you want to identify/fix that IMMEDIATELY. If there is any "Port" you can use to examine for loose bolt(s), I would do that, as well as examining flywheel housing bolts. Hopefully someone with MT can offer better suggestions.

If NO fault codes related to Mixture Control (Lean/Rich), we can only guess about cold start issues. O2 Sensors should NOT go "Closed Loop" in first 30 seconds after cold start. Does your 325i have External Oil Separator below rear of Intake Manifold? Is there any oil smoke on startup, or oily residue at/above tailpipes?

If you use INPA, please help us "Anglos" with the Deutsch.
George

[Skyline18]

Wow thanks for your detailed reply.

Of course I can help you with the translations, no problem.

About the Flywheel / Vibration Problem;

It happens when i put the gear in neutral, which means the stick is in the middle and the foot is off the clutch.

Sometimes it doesnt happen at all, sometimes every 3/5 seconds or even 10 seconds. Very random. Doesnt happen when driving tho, driving is completly normal.

My only thought left would be that the DME does something when pressing the clutch which then solves the vibrations.

I want to do an oil change / Plugs / Coils replacement anyway, maybe "Hardy disk" too. in the next month or so, should I tell him to look for something? I mean, anything clutch/Massflywheel related would need the transmission to be removed right? Or do they have other options? I mean because you mentioned to look for something loose.

Yea the oil seperator is under the manifold. Dont think that i have any problems with that, no Oil consumption and no blue smoke or any smoke, just the normal white smoke when its cold outside. Exhaust Pipe is clean too.

About setting the idle speed:

Is I*PA able to set the idle speed permanently? Some say yes, some say no. Is it a specific version of I*pa which can do that? Or do I have to set a specific value, so that it stays permanent? Because if the Idle speed is just a tiny bit higher, the vibration is gone. Completly. Maybe the idle speed is just way too low and it vibrates because of that. Even in neutral and no foot on the clutch, with just a bit more idle speed the vibrations dont occur.

Would really like to try the idle speed

Thanks in advance !

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Skyline18

... Is I*PA able to set the idle speed permanently? Some say yes, some say no. Is it a specific version of I*pa which can do that? Or do I have to set a specific value, so that it stays permanent? Because if the Idle speed is just a tiny bit higher, the vibration is gone. Completely. Maybe the idle speed is just way too low and it vibrates because of that. Even in neutral and no foot on the clutch, with just a bit more idle speed the vibrations don't occur. Would really like to try the idle speed

I have TWO different versions of INPA, and BOTH have the Idle Speed screen:
INPA > DME (MSV80) > F9 System Diagnosen > F5 LL-Drehzal verstellen
You simply open the screen, read what the current SetPoint & Actual RPM are, and then click buttons on the TaskBar to Raise/ Lower the RPM, either by 100 RPM, or by 10 RPM with each click. Whatever RPM you select that way becomes the NEW Setpoint/ Sollwert, for WARM Engine Idle Speed.

'Permanent' is a relative term. The DME uses a setpoint closer to 1000 RPM for cold start, and gradually reduces RPM Sollwert to whatever you selected over a 1 to 2 minute interval as the engine warms. AFAIK, whatever value you select using the Screen "Menu Path" above is the Sollwert for warm idle, UNTIL changed by similar method.

See the pdf's attached to the thread linked below for download/use info:
https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/t...#post-13810062

The BimmerGeeks version has English Translation of Menus, but NOT all "Labels", and text such as Fault Details. The English translation was done by well-meaning "volunteers" who usually got things correct, but occasionally had errors such as the German 'kältemittel druck' (Refrigerant Pressure) which was translated "Print Cooling agent".

The fact that "druck" has many different meanings depending upon "Context" is lost on most US Anglos. I'll let you 'splain what 'F9 Druck' means, as used in INPA Task Bar.

There ARE INPA downloads out there that are in original German (I have one I downloaded 5+ years ago) but I don't have current link to that download. If you understand Technical German Terminology as well or better than English, you would probably be happier with all German version. The BimmerGeeks link is ALL I have at the moment.
George

[Skyline18]

Thanks for your help

Nice thats good to know that it sets the warm idle rpm permanent, thought only ISTA can do that. I already got INPA on my laptop, already read error codes so its working good. If you want i can translate that options, thats no problem.

So this means if i set the idle speed it will be like "stock" at cold start till it gets warm and then, for example stays at 650 if i set it to 650? that would be very cool. Would be a workaround for the vibration problem.

But I will tell my mechanic about that anyway, just to make sure. If the mass flywheel and/or clutch is faulty i will have to replace them anyway.

But for my understanding, the usual symptoms of the flywheel are like shaking when shutting down the car and/or hard knocks when changing gears, dont have that tho. Only when taking off gas at gear 1 it gives a little knock, think its the hardy disc or the middle center bearing of the "cardanshaft" dont know if the word is correct. Will check that tho.

I'll try setting the idle speed tomorrow after work, the engine has to be at operating temperature AND engine running, right?

Thanks in advance

[Skyline18]

Short Update:

unfortunately, its not possible with the combination of N52 (Valvetronic Engine) and I*PA to set the LL-Drehzahl..

I will try to install Rhe**g*ld

should work with that tho. I will update later.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Skyline18

Short Update: unfortunately, its not possible with the combination of N52 (Valvetronic Engine) and I*PA
to set the LL-Drehzahl..

Actually, I HAVE used INPA to set Idle Speed Setpoint/ Sollwert:
INPA > DME (MSV80) > F9 System Diagnosen > F5 LL-Drehzal verstellen

Does your INPA installation have 'F9 System Diagnosen' on the DME Main Menu?
Does clicking on F9 at DME Main Menu open 1st attached ScreenPrint Bandende Diagnosen?
Does clicking F5 at that Menu open 'Drehzahl verstellen' screen (2nd ScreenPrint)?
Which DME Variant are you connected to -- MSV70 or MSV80?
George

[Skyline18]

Thanks for reply,

Need to check that tomorrow again. I'm using MSV70, but im not sure if its correct. I managed to install ista d in the meantime, ista can do that too tho. i will try again with inpa first and if that doesnt work i will try to use ista.

question:

Which engine/car do you have? Some people said its not possible with the n52b25 because it has a valvetronic and you have to set a different valve hub (0.3 - 0.9mm)
its in Inpa -> Valvetronic (VVT) instead of setting idle speed, because it doesnt work with throttle valve like other engines, it uses VVT (thats what they said) maybe im wrong ?

Anyway, tomorrow i can test again. Just to make sure:

Drive Engine warm (over 90°c) and then set the LL-Drehzahl and press "Prog" right?

Greets

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Skyline18

... Drive Engine warm (over 90°c) and then set the LL-Drehzahl and press "Prog" right?

NOT RIGHT! (Nicht Richtig).
I attached the INPA ScreenPrint of the INPA LeerLauf-Drehzahl verstellen screen for my 3/2007 build 328xi, N52KP engine, MSV80 DME, to post #7 above. My 328xi has N52KP Engine WITH Valvetronic (control of Throttle via variable Intake Valve "Lift"/ Opening (NOT Throttle Valve). I was able to set idle speed Setpoint/ Sollwert, using that Screen.

As far as I know, ALL N52 engines use Valvetronic. The DME controls Idle speed Setpoint/ Sollwert. On my engine, the idle speed is elevated at cold start to ~ 1,000 RPM, and decreases as engine warms (~ 2 minutes time) to the 660 LeefLauf Sollwert which I set using that INPA screen.

If that screen displays your CURRENT idle speed (LL-Istwert) and Idle Speed Setpoint (LL-Sollwert), then AFAIK the Sollwert Value should change when you increase/decrease value using the +10/-10 buttons on Task Bar at bottom of screen.

I'm NOT aware of any reason you have to wait until engine reaches 90C or any other value. You are simply changing the "Setpoint/ Sollwert". In your case, you want to INCREASE Sollwert, so click +10 (F1) button on TaskBar and see what happens. You SHOULD see change in BOTH Istwert & Sollwert values, if Istwert is LESS than Sollwert.

You never did indicate if you used the pdf attached to Post #2 (INPA Tutorial Quickstart) to view "INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification" to view the SGBD/ Variant of your DME. WHATEVER that variant is (MSV70 or MSV80) is the DME (Engine | MSV70) you should select to connect with the DME and get the Main Menu, F9 System Diagnosen Menus.

If YOUR INPA installation does NOT work as described, please attach screenprint(s) of any issues, and indicate the Download Source (Link) of your installation.
George

[Skyline18]

Thanks for the patience.

Aight i finally made it, but it didnt solve the vibration tho

still vibrating.. still when i press the clutch, its gone.

I read out "laufunruhe" too, looks normal. Picture attached.



Also found out that the LL Istwert / Sollwert doesnt match with my actual rpm tho. Pictures attached.






I think its a hardware issue at that moment. First thought was misfiring because of Sparkplugs / Coils, but that would be there when pressing the clutch, too. Vacuum Leaks same reason.

What would be your next step? Checking the Transmission / Flywheel / Clutch if anything is loose? im a complete newb. Sorry for that many questions.


Edit: Vanos gebersignale and Adaption NW-Einlass and NW-Auslass are too high, what could that be ?



Engine was not at operating temperature and i cranked the idle 100rpm up while reading them, is that important?

Edit: Ive deleted the vanos adaptions and relearned the vvt. (Using key and waiting for a few seconds, you can hear that in the car.) Then took it for a drive. First few kms less power, then after 13km i stopped the engine, again relearned vvt positions and then started again, power back. Even better than before. Maybe it needed a reset, because the manufacturers of the solenoids were different. (Vaico was in, original bmw is in now).

Need to check tomorrow again for the NW Adaptionswerte. Dont think its timing chain, n52 isnt known for that, but you never know..

Greets

[castaway118i]

hello ,im e87 118i AT owner with N43 engine. My timing chain is fresh new with oil pump and hydraolic valve, recently i replaced crankshaft position sensor- exhaust for continental VDO and readapt engine.After that i noticed NW out of range too. Too bad i dont check it with original bmw sensor. On bimmerprofs website there is mention that my VANOS need to be readjusted because numbers should ve +/- 7-8.5. I did ask for more details blog author and he did confirmed that my VANOS crankshaft timing is bad and timing chain need to be checked too.

Now i searching forums if its necessary to di this complex and costly job and someone else have similar problem. My plan is install back original old crankshaft sensor amd readapt engine.

did readaption bring your NW back to normal ?
my engine is a bit shaking and i have rough idle problems but not much .it get worse if i put car in to Drive or Reverse.(i have automatic transmission)Let me know please if anything i can do more .My plan is try timing chain test in ISTA .Thanks!

[teamxp2001]

If you replaced your vanos solenoids without resetting the adaptations, the engine control module (ECM) will have learned to operate with the old solenoids and may not have fully adapted to the new ones. While it's possible that the ECM has adapted over time through driving, it's recommended that you perform a reset of the adaptations to ensure that the ECM is operating optimally with the new solenoids.
SnapTik

[castaway118i]

i dont replaced my vanos solenoids, today i try to swap them as ista D suggest me to do so..i cleaned them as well no change.
I did try timing chain test in istaD and result is in picture ..as i have brand new chain tensioner aj guides then i think it still point to timing issue. I am afraid i have bring car to mechanic to readjust timing ...maybe new timing vanos gears.

[Skyline18]

Quick Update:

I didnt recheck the crankshaft adaptions since then, didnt have the time. But maybe I will do it later, if not i will do it on tuesday (No work on that day)

For the reset of adaptions:

IMO, the car runs a bit smoother now. Could be placebo but i think its better now.
But i think INPA is showing wrong values sometimes. (not sure.)

I absolutely dont have any symptoms of a bad timing chain. Absolutely sweet acceleration, no chain ticking on coldstart, no error codes, no anything.

But I will renew the chain tensioner in the next few weeks and do an oil change. In the same time i can verify if the Oil Filter (Basket?) is still there, sometimes they will be thrown away. Also will renew the gasket in that basket. Also² will do a motor clean flush before oil change.

QUESTION:

I do have a K+Dcan Cable with a switch. my car is a 2005 e90. Do i have to put the switch in left position or right for pin 7+8 bridged? I used the left position but im not sure if thats correct.

[Skyline18]

Update:

After driving today i got the "limpmode", no Error Lamp on dash. Just reduced power.

Read out Errorcodes and got:

002A99 Crankshaft - Camshaft Correlation
002A87 Exhaust Crankshaft Vanos something

Parts already done:

2 New Vanos Solenoids original BMW (est. 1000km)

Where should I begin?

[Skyline18]

Update:

I think the errors came because of the adaption reset of the vanos.

Cleared the codes, driven 400km, no error so far.

But my fluctuating idle is back, the idle rpm goes like 80/-80 from time to time.

My Mechanic has holidays so the earliest i can get there is in 2 weeks.

I begin to think that this must have to do with the Oil Basket in the Oil Filter Cap.
Dont have a wrench for that cap so i have to wait for the mechanic.

Had the same fluctuating idle before i changed the vanos solenoids, now they are back (Genuine BMW Solenoids) is it possible that they have been clogged again after that short time?

Can the following components cause fluctuating idle?

- Sparks / Plugs
- Vacuum Leak
- Missing Oil Filter Basket
- Camshaft / Crankshaft Sensors ?
?

Thanks in advance.

[castaway118i]

im just newbie but i think you should readjust camshaft timing and maybe replace timing vanos gears.same as i should do

[Skyline18]

Yea my plan is to go to the mechanic and do an oilchange first. Will ask him to clean the vanos filters too. I'll let the car there over night so he can drive it the next day to experience the sound on coldstart and the "stutter" driving in the first minute after starting cold. its like jerking when starting cold and driving and a bit sluggish too. Feels like less power directly after coldstart.

will do new coils + plugs, just in case. isnt that expensive and i dont know how old they are anyway.

[castaway118i]

let me know about every news please im interested in your case 🤔