[scbim]

Hey everyone, hoping to get some input on alignment specs after upgrading to M3 control arms (wishbone, thrust arm in the front, upper control arms in the back) + Bilstein struts. I know there are a gagillion threads out there on alignment/camber specs and I've perused many but my itch still isn't scratched...

For one thing, why do so many people rock more negative camber in the rear on these chassis? The more common and seemingly logical setup is to have more camber up front since the front takes more load during turns. I read on a Z forum it was because of the shorter chassis but that doesn't apply here.

I'm thinking about running the stock M3 specs (-1 front and rear) found here, but wondering if I should try something slightly more aggressive. Not shy about attacking the local twistys late night on the weekends, but this is my daily driver so I'm mainly aiming to cater the camber toward minimizing tire wear (accounting for the weekend warrior tendencies).

Any input is appreciated, thanks.

[johnnyorange]

Originally Posted by scbim

Hey everyone, hoping to get some input on alignment specs after upgrading to M3 control arms (wishbone, thrust arm in the front, upper control arms in the back) + Bilstein struts. I know there are a gagillion threads out there on alignment/camber specs and I've perused many but my itch still isn't quite scratched...

For one thing, why do so many people rock more negative camber in the rear on these chassis? The more common and seemingly logical setup is to have more camber up front since the front takes more load during turns. I read on a Z forum it was because of the shorter chassis but that doesn't apply here.

I'm thinking about running the stock M3 specs (-1 front and rear) found here, but wondering if I should try something slightly more aggressive. Not shy about attacking the local twistys late night on the weekends, but this is my daily driver so I'm mainly aiming to cater the camber toward minimizing tire wear (accounting for the weekend warrior tendencies).

Any input is appreciated, thanks.

Following this thread intently, as on my lci e91 i upgraded the front wishbone and thrust arms to the m3 version before covid, but not yet the rear.

needless to say this setup is absolutely eating my tires on this my daily driver, as I realize the alignment that was done after the front m3 bits were installed was to a standard setup, and did not account for the new m3 bits - hence tires being killed.

prior to getting new tires this week/next week i need to put the m3 control arms in the rear and get it properly aligned for the setup.

what I am specifically curious about is what the proper camber setup should be for an wagon with m3 bits, which may be the standard -1 all around

[scbim]

Thanks for weighing in, what part of which tires are being worn? I've read on some threads that toe is a bigger culprit in terms of tire wear, but toe spec should be set to 0 unless otherwise specified anyway

At the end of his DIY guide, Gareth from FCP Euro says the only thing you need to be concerned about is setting the toe to 0 and that the M3 arms will add negative camber to the front on their own.

Also read that front camber is not adjustable without removing the alignment pins and the M3 control arms should add about -0.75 degrees. At this point, unless somebody convinces me otherwise, I'm just going to ask the shop to match the rear camber to the front.

Planning to get the alignment done today so I'll let you know how it goes.

[335i54n]

oe specs are crap, most shop dont have the software to do it to bmw specs anyways. like tire pressure, imo should be individually adjusted to each driver, over time you will see your driving habits and how it affect tire wear and go off that.

[scbim]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

oe specs are crap, most shop dont have the software to do it to bmw specs anyways. like tire pressure, imo should be individually adjusted to each driver, over time you will see your driving habits and how it affect tire wear and go off that.

Yeah I get that vibe. Hard for a newbie to know where to start though! And not everyone has the cash to shell out for goldilocks alignment tweaks.

I ended up telling the shop to adjust only the toe. Oddly enough they ended up adjusting the camber up front anyway from -1.3 to -0.9 which is odd because I didn't think it was adjustable (since I haven't removed the alignment pin).

They left the rear where it was at -1.7. Still have questions about why BMW comes stock with more camber in the back.

At any rate she corners like a beast with the suspension upgrade and I'm just happy to be back on the road. Only time will tell with the tire wear.

[335i54n]

Originally Posted by scbim

I ended up telling the shop to adjust only the toe. Oddly enough they ended up adjusting the camber up front anyway from -1.3 to -0.9 which is odd because I didn't think it was adjustable (since I haven't removed the alignment pin).
.

sounds like a good shop, you paid for a service. yeah i am all about even tire wear, I would take out as much camber in the rear as possible (even side to side) imo. you could go back and have them remeasure, ideally it be close but probably a little of both your car and alignment that it wont be. i do 10 min toe front and 15-20 total in rear and camber close to -1 for wear front and rear

[scbim]

Originally Posted by 335i54n

sounds like a good shop, you paid for a service. yeah i am all about even tire wear, I would take out as much camber in the rear as possible (even side to side) imo. you could go back and have them remeasure, ideally it be close but probably a little of both your car and alignment that it wont be. i do 10 min toe front and 15-20 total in rear and camber close to -1 for wear front and rear

That tracks, closer to the -1, -1 from the M3 manual - I'll likely leave it the way it is and wait to see if I'm getting inner wear. Now more concerned with the fact that my car is drinking gasoline like it's cool-aid. Suspecting vanos solenoids since it's over 100k and they haven't been replaced yet. Things are pricey though!

What's the logic behind your toe setup?

[335i54n]

personal preference/experience. i tried 0 toe in front and didnt like it for the highway so kept adding a little more to my liking. if you do any hard driving youre gonna get rear inner wear, with the soft rear under compression the very inner get chewed up and the front 225 is not wide enough and rolls over on the shoulders

[whyzee125]

BMW set the cars up that way to understeer from the factory. Cars that oversteer are more dangerous/a bigger liability if something goes wrong so it's more predictable with more rear camber and less in front.

I'd highly recommend increasing front camber to 2+ degrees. I've run up to 2.8 and got almost no inner wear on the street only. I'm going to back it down to about 2.5 which I think should get me close to dead even wear and still keep the sharpness and superb steering feel.

Also, only toe is adjustable in the front but by adjusting the toe, the camber also adjusts some. Basically the stock configuration only allows you to dial in the toe and you're then stuck with whatever the camber is. If nothing's bent, it will be roughly the same on each side so it works fine. You'd need camber plates to adjust camber and still keep toe in spec.

[scbim]

Originally Posted by whyzee125

BMW set the cars up that way to understeer from the factory. Cars that oversteer are more dangerous/a bigger liability if something goes wrong so it's more predictable with more rear camber and less in front.

I'd highly recommend increasing front camber to 2+ degrees. I've run up to 2.8 and got almost no inner wear on the street only. I'm going to back it down to about 2.5 which I think should get me close to dead even wear and still keep the sharpness and superb steering feel.

Also, only toe is adjustable in the front but by adjusting the toe, the camber also adjusts some. Basically the stock configuration only allows you to dial in the toe and you're then stuck with whatever the camber is. If nothing's bent, it will be roughly the same on each side so it works fine. You'd need camber plates to adjust camber and still keep toe in spec.

Thanks for the reply! Finally, a concrete answer that actually makes sense.

I'm not about to install camber plates anytime soon considering it's storming like hell out here and I barely got control arms and struts installed, but I'll keep it on the radar (especially if I start noticing some inner wear).

Cheers mate

[BB_cuda]

I’m late to the party . I run minus 1.5deg camber both front and rear. A few things to consider for my individual setup.
1) I have Wavetrac rear diff
2) I have M3 E90/E92 F/R sway bars
3) ground control coil overs with 440 and 550 lb/in spring ratings per GC recommendations using. Koni single adjustable struts and shocks. Rear is true M3 type with proper true M3 lower camber arms
4) I run 33 psi on all 4 tires.
Result: I’m getting even tire wear on front/rear and I rotate them every 4000 miles (255/35/18 square on Apex 18x9, ET30, SM-10 wheels)

[scbim]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I’m late to the party . I run minus 1.5deg camber both front and rear. A few things to consider for my individual setup.
1) I have Wavetrac rear diff
2) I have E90/E92 F/R sway bars
3) ground control coil overs with 440 and 550 lb/in spring ratings per GC recommendations using. Koni single adjustable struts and shocks. Rear is true M3 type with proper true M3 lower camber arms
4) I run 33 psi on all 4 tires.
Result: I’m getting even tire wear on front/rear and I rotate them every 4000 miles (255/35/18 square on Apex 18x9, ET30, SM-10 wheels)

All good, thanks for weighing in! Thinking about replacing the rear springs myself since the car sits much lower in the back atm. Did you notice much difference with the lower control arm upgrade in the rear? Likely, you did everything at once so it would be difficult to single them out but I'm curious how much advantage they give considering all the kits are for the uppers only.

[Jaronbwall]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I’m late to the party . I run minus 1.5deg camber both front and rear. A few things to consider for my individual setup.
1) I have Wavetrac rear diff
2) I have E90/E92 F/R sway bars
3) ground control coil overs with 440 and 550 lb/in spring ratings per GC recommendations using. Koni single adjustable struts and shocks. Rear is true M3 type with proper true M3 lower camber arms
4) I run 33 psi on all 4 tires.
Result: I’m getting even tire wear on front/rear and I rotate them every 4000 miles (255/35/18 square on Apex 18x9, ET30, SM-10 wheels)

Freaking MINT setup my guy Jealous of that Wavetrac diff and square wheel/tire fitment $$$

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by whyzee125

Also, only toe is adjustable in the front but by adjusting the toe, the camber also adjusts some. Basically the stock configuration only allows you to dial in the toe and you're then stuck with whatever the camber is. If nothing's bent, it will be roughly the same on each side so it works fine. You'd need camber plates to adjust camber and still keep toe in spec.

There's a smidge of camber adjustment, the strut towers are slotted. Probably a half a degree there, you just have to pull the alignment pins out of the strut mounts. Its surprising how much difference a half a degree makes if you're at zero to start with.

[iPee]

E91 LCI xDrive
BC BR Series coilovers lowered slightly.
245/35/18 no finger gap.
M3 arms in the rear
Syncro Design front control arms
All other front control arms/toe rods have been replaced.

Front
Camber: -2.8
Toe: 0.05*
PSI: 35

Rear
Camber: -2.1
Toe: 0.10*
PSI: 37

Tire wear has been fine.

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by scbim

All good, thanks for weighing in! Thinking about replacing the rear springs myself since the car sits much lower in the back atm. Did you notice much difference with the lower control arm upgrade in the rear? Likely, you did everything at once so it would be difficult to single them out but I'm curious how much advantage they give considering all the kits are for the uppers only.

Your assumption was correct. Only thing there before my big swap was the Wavetrac diff. No way I could tell you the lower camber arms solo effect in terms of driving feel.