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Faster Steering for xDrive
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05-15-2016, 06:20 PM | #1 |
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Faster Steering for xDrive
E9x steering ratios:
xDrive - 18:1 non-M RWD - 16:1 M3 ratio - 12.5:1 I find myself at the limits of crossing my arms on the steering wheel on slow, tight turns (Pacific Raceway 3A and 3B and the Ridge corkscrew and thumb). Short of redesigning the front suspension Ackerman point (don't want to go that deep), I believe my options are: 1) M3 rack, or 2) steering quickener as used on some track and rally cars Sadly the M3 and non-M racks are not PNP jobs. The racks attach to different parts of the front subframe. I suppose anything is possible by welding new tabs on both the subframe and M3 rack to fit, but this borderlines on heroic effort. Steering quickeners have been around for awhile, and come in standard 2:1 and 1.5:1 gear ratios. A 1.5:1 quickener ought to result in 12:1 steering ratio. This would be a fine compromise for dual use street and track. Proper install seems somewhat invasive, but again anything is possible with $$ and commitment, right?. Anyone reading with direct, first-hand experience? Any safety or reliability issues? Will the column still collapse as designed? Does the quickener introduce slop into the system? Thanks.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
05-15-2016, 07:00 PM | #2 | |
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2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
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05-15-2016, 07:13 PM | #3 |
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If this works, it'd be great for the x-drive guys. I think I'd consider this over the M3 rack if it works out. Although that 2nd picture makes me think you'd have to do a lot of disassembly to get one of these in.
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05-15-2016, 07:20 PM | #4 |
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The installation requires cutting and welding the steering column as part of splicing the steering quickener into the system.
I believe that locating the unit low on the column, under the crumple zone would retain the collapsable design. This is a very high priority for me. I will not proceed if this safety feature is compromised. I assume the unit would introduce some slop. The question is whether or not this is enough to be an issue, or just slicing hairs over theory. There are also higher requirements for the PS pump, but again the relevant question is if it matters here. The OE pump may very well have adequate headroom for the job
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-15-2016, 07:22 PM | #5 | |
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It gets old fast doing advanced yoga shoulder exercises to navigate the tight turns.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-15-2016, 07:30 PM | #6 |
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Two things - 1) the steering angle sensor won't work which would confuse the hell out of the stability system but I'm totally eliminating it so that's not an issue. 2) will ask the guys when they get back from racing in Canada in a couple of weeks.
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2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
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05-15-2016, 07:32 PM | #7 | |
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Is anything simple on a BMW? Sheesh.....
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-16-2016, 08:46 AM | #8 |
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I've noticed the same issue. My truck had a faster steering ratio than my BMW does.
Rather than mess with cutting the steering column, what about taking apart an xDrive steering rack and replacing the pinion gear and the rack with parts that have a different ratio? Perhaps if you were able to match the E90 m3's ratio, you could use the m3's steering angle sensor/settings too? |
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05-16-2016, 02:15 PM | #9 |
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It looks like the DSC SAS can be coded with new values. I need to do further diligence to confirm. If correct, I believe this would remedy the problem.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-16-2016, 02:31 PM | #10 |
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2011 E90 328i 6MT, BMW Aero, CF hood/boot, PI+CAI+RM+3IM+BPC, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+SS#1+2XBurns, AKG 75D eng/trans, Al/Delrin diff/RS, CM 850, UCP, CAE, AKG DSSR, DiffsOnline 3.91 30/90 LSD+BW cooler, C&R, Setrab, Accusump, AST 3-way+Swift, Aurora PR+BW spherical, Vorshlag CPs, M3 brace+UR bar, ARC-8 18x8.5, 255 R1R, RB/CSL rotors+cooling, 135i calipers, RS29, RT700, Safecraft, OMP HTE-R+804F+QD Superquadro, 6pt cage+FIA, Braille, RT DL1Mk3
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05-17-2016, 01:45 AM | #11 |
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Tetsuo, if you ever figure out a way to get the other rack in I'd be very interested.
Since you're in Seattle, I'd love to see the car some time. Not many of us 91's around. |
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05-18-2016, 08:24 AM | #12 |
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I wonder if a mini-cooper rack would work. They're both BMW-based front drivers...whatchya think?
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05-18-2016, 07:07 PM | #13 |
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I'll check the Mini rack.
Had discussions with some people who build race cars. I'm getting conflicting input - one recommends the quickener, the other recommends a new rack. The reason given for both recommendations is ease of implementation. Both options are invasive. A quickener has to be installed somewhere on the column, by cutting and welding the column. The rack needs to be modified by welding tabs on to either or both the rack itself and the subframe. A third option is using a non-BMW rack. So the project is shaping up to be non-trivial. I'm not close to giving up yet. The payback is too good to ignore.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-21-2016, 08:03 AM | #14 | |
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05-23-2016, 06:50 AM | #15 | |
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05-24-2016, 02:13 PM | #16 | |
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The xDrive front subframe is "reversed" compared with the RWD chassis. So the steering rack attaches to the aft side of the fwd front subframe beam. RWD racks attach to the fwd part of the aft front subframe beam. Point being the xDrive architecture makes a rack swap more invasive. At the minimum it would be necessary to fabricate a way to attach a standard rack designed to connect on one side, to the other side. Hard to explain without a pic, but RealOEM makes it clear. I spoke with Zionsville BMW about this yesterday. They do a lot of steering upgrades for the E46 / E36 people. We're taking measurements to see if an E46 M3 rack could be re-purposed to this application. The E46 isn't as quick as the E90 M3 rack at 15.4:1
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-24-2016, 02:38 PM | #17 | |
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05-24-2016, 03:14 PM | #18 |
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Valid point - no reason not to. I think the discussion was more about fitting a faster rack versus the fastest fitting rack.
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2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794 |
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05-24-2016, 04:17 PM | #19 |
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you could do active steering - but 3k usd for the rack alone reman. i have active steering in my e90 335 and its amazing at low speeds, hardly any work.
This thread talks about it - people like it at autocross - http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post19991461 Full lock to lock at lower speeds in 1.5 turns ish
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05-24-2016, 11:35 PM | #20 | ||
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However, if they're both equal work then ZHP all the way. |
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05-25-2016, 06:41 AM | #21 | |
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05-25-2016, 09:58 AM | #22 |
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I have a feeling that the steering angle sensor and the DSC isn't gonna like this.
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