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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > New car price negotiation advice needed



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      08-25-2019, 01:29 AM   #23
lowrydr310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike sevel View Post
I am considering a new 4 series coupe.
Then why are you posting this on the E90 forum? Here, I even did the hard work for you and linked directly to a thread discussing F30 pricing over at the F30 forum.


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Originally Posted by colorado.e9x View Post
Yeah definitely don't buy new. A cars value immediately goes down by about 10% the moment you drive it off the lot
I disagree with this. If you're paying MSRP for a car, then yeah you're a sucker and you're going to eat a lot of depreciation. But if you're not buying a special one-off car and you're not paying MSRP, then you aren't instantly losing 10% of the sales price when you drive away.

New vs. used comes down to personal preference and your negotiated sale price. When I bought my first new car (after my trusty used car finally died on me) I was always taught this myth of "NEVER BUY A NEW CAR YOU'LL LOSE SO MUCH MONEY," so I focused my search on a three year old used car. The prices were ridiculous. I was looking at Honda Accords, and they were all $17,000-$18,000. Most of the ones I looked at in this price range had minor cosmetic issues that I didn't feel like dealing with, and one "certified pre-owned" model even had an obvious slipping transmission. So instead I shopped around and bought a brand new one for $20,500. Spending $3500 more for a brand new car was worth every penny for me, as I put 160K miles on it over 13 years with nothing but routine maintenance. Prior to the accident that ended its life, the body, paint, and interior were immaculate because I took care of it since new.

I also once bought a used Audi A4 because it was $15,000 less than a new one and still had a year of warranty left. That was a good decision, better than buying new, at least from a new/used decision standpoint. The decision to buy an A4 turned out to be a horrible choice due to the numerous electrical issues I had to deal with. Looking back on that purchase, I was against BMW at the time because the E46 didn't have as much potential to easily increase power (being NA) as the A4 could with upgraded turbochargers and a reflash, but the E46 would have been the better car for sure.
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      08-25-2019, 04:34 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorado.e9x View Post
Okay? Yeah. Everything depreciates. Whats your point?This is an automotive forum. The thread is about buying a new car. Maybe that's why I'm singling out an automobile.

A new car loses 20-30% of its value by the end of its first year of driving. Five years down the road and 60% of it's value is out the window. New cars depreciate faster than used cars do.

I would much rather buy a car after it's been leased for a few years. It's like-new and I can get it a lot cheaper than if I bought one that's fresh out of the factory.

Do you still not understand why I would choose a like-new vehicle for 30% cheaper over a brand new vehicle? I think it's pretty obvious.
A vehicle is a tool. A transportation tool. It is made to get you from point A to point B. That's it. How much you want to pay per mile to get yourself from A to B is the metric. More expensive cars get you from A to B in some precieved fashion that has more value to you than other people. Depreciation is a made up financial concept that really has no intrinsic meaning. It all comes down to how much you want to pay per mile to move yourself about the place you live. To say you do it better than someone who buys new is just BS. Saying a car loses XX% of it's value is an arbitrary concept. You can't explain it. No one can.
I can explain it.

Used cars are cheaper than new cars.

The difference is 'value loss'.

Philosophical problem solved.
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      08-25-2019, 06:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam View Post
Regardless of what you're negotiating, remember this:

You don't need a new car. They need to sell a car. At the same time, keep in mind that you are not the only one they are talking to, but they are not the only dealership with a car that you might want. There is always another car around. BMW produces a new one every day, and someone trades in a lightly used one every day.

In short, if you've got a price in mind, keep shopping for it. If you can't get that price, change your expectations.



People make a living off of it, but let's just leave it at that....the internet gets...pretty weird.



Depreciation is mathematically modeled and is a tool used to optimally buy and sell used goods. You may call it a made up concept, but it's a very valid and factual concept that maximizes revenue and/or value depending on what your goal is as either an individual or an organization. It's literally how the entire used car market works. It's why BMW sells used vehicles and puts their name behind "Certified Pre-owned." Companies have entire departments and teams studying and modeling this 5 days a week. If it was arbitrary and unexplainable, it wouldn't be modelable. Models help explain concepts.

People are willing to pay money for certain used items at a certain price. That can be explained.
You are saying exactly what I said; it depends on your goal. That is why it is an arbitrary concept, because it depends on what the individual decides is an achievement. I completely agree it can be modeled. Regardless if you buy a car new, used, or lease it, any metric of the cost you paid for it comes down to how many units-of-money you spent per mile operating the vehicle (i.e. cents-per-mile). So saying buying a used car is cheaper is BS. The used price is only being compared to the price if you bought the car new, which is an arbitrary comparison. Evaluating the cost of a car to the owner comes down to a single standard metric.. cents-per-mile; which is not arbitrary. So saying new car depreciates 10% as soon as you drive it off the lot is meaningless; I didn't say it wasn't a real phenomenon, just that it is a meaningless, arbitrary measurement.

The cents-per-mile is also somewhat arbitrary, because it really is a determination of value to you of what you are paying for. Meaning any car will get you from A to B and some obviously cost less to do so (e.g. a Rolls Royce vs. a Civic), so it's a personal evaluation on if you like driving a Civic vs. a Rolls and are willing to pay for either experience.

But my point started with comparing new vs. used for the same vehicle. At some point in the mathematical ownership model, depreciation factors out of the equation; it all depends on how long you own the car and how many miles you ultimately drive it.
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      08-25-2019, 06:42 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie69 View Post
I can explain it.

Used cars are cheaper than new cars.

The difference is 'value loss'.

Philosophical problem solved.
The value is less for the used car because it has a shorter lifespan...
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-25-2019 at 08:28 AM..
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      08-25-2019, 06:48 AM   #27
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If it's dollars and cents, buy a used Toyota Corolla.

The Toyota Corolla is the most popular automobile model in the History of Mankind.

There are reasons for that. They are cheap to buy new, very reliable, easy to repair, and hold their value.

(Toyota reached the milestone of 40 million Corollas sold in July 2013.)

My e91 may have been the least reliable car I ever purchased new and I still have it after nearly 12 years. There are other factors that go into the equation.
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