[Noir]

^ I remember researching the sc possibilities then I ran into armas sc kit... yikes. cool they tried, but they obviously didnt test them for long... / ebay blower lol

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

So used, not new (which is likely that BPC was considering) but ok.

And no, this thread started with you talking out of your behind as someone who supposedly "KNEW" that more power was available. Tell us more. Do you even know if M3 injector's are compatible? If they aren't what's the next injector the OP should use?

Why are you being so hostile towards me? Shutting down new ideas isn't going to help this platform grow. If you're happy with the results that this platform is putting out, great, sit back and enjoy it. Don't come at me trying to challenge every input I try to put in. S65 injectors don't work? Okay let's try the S54 ones, Oh wait VF makes a supercharger kit for the e46 3 series, maybe the injectors off one of those kits MAY work. Stop being so negative to everything I post. I bring up the N55 and you try to chime in how much boost the N55 is making comparatively to the n52? Stop that. Everything I'm suggesting is meant for the OP to help aid the cooling issue. More information/ideas DOESN'T hurt.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Alright, N55 guy over here. Been following this thread since a buddy of mine has been contemplating on supercharging his E90 330i.. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone here or anything but to the OP, you need a new tuner.. I honesty don't think BPC can produce the results that everyone is looking for, gains of roughly 10-15whp on e40 mix? You're kidding right. Ethanol on forced induction should make much more gains than that. This platform should be at 300+whp consistently on PUMP gas. Honestly consider a different tuner, RKtunes up in NY area would be a good start, I get that the N52 has valvetronic and it's difficult to tune but the N55 is similar and they cracked it on the N55 for custom flash tuning recently, same can be done for the n52 when it falls in the right hands. BPC has a few N/A N52's with N54 IM and FBO running 250-260whp, a 4-5k supercharger all for a 20-30whp extra gain. I'm sure others may agree but something needs to be done to push this platform further with this kit as it should be making more power than we're seeing, again not trying to disrespect anyone but the OP has spent lots of money and I hope he can get much better results!

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Why are you being so hostile towards me? Shutting down new ideas isn't going to help this platform grow. If you're happy with the results that this platform is putting out, great, sit back and enjoy it. Don't come at me trying to challenge every input I try to put in. S65 injectors don't work? Okay let's try the S54 ones, Oh wait VF makes a supercharger kit for the e46 3 series, maybe the injectors off one of those kits MAY work. Stop being so negative to everything I post. I bring up the N55 and you try to chime in how much boost the N55 is making comparatively to the n52? Stop that. Everything I'm suggesting is meant for the OP to help aid the cooling issue. More information/ideas DOESN'T hurt.

You seemed to be the one thinking he was talking from a position of authority.

If you had stated that you expected more - I could agree with that. If your saying that they don't know "what they are doing" and can't show an instance of someone doing better - we'll disagree.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

You seemed to be the one thinking he was talking from a position of authority.

If you had stated that you expected more - I could agree with that. If your saying that they don't know "what they are doing" and can't show an instance of someone doing better - we'll disagree.

I would absolutely expect more. I will respectfully disagree with you in some aspects. The problem is no one in this platform wants to take it to someone else, BPC has done a great job developing the N/A output for these motors, which in turn makes them the N52 specialist to all the guys here. The other forum member made over 300whp on pump gas, Noir makes less than that on e40 ethanol. Tuning isn't necessarily there, some guys know minor adjustments that others don't. If Noir brought it to an euro tuner with different experience the results could be possibly different. POSSIBLY, again, it doesn't hurt to try. For instance, Gintani tunes supercharged e92 m3's running on e85, C63/e55 supercharged AMG's on e85, Rktunes has a lot of work on supercharged M3's on e85, vf570 supercharged e46 m3, and more. Again, I wasn't intending to bash anyone or tuner, but a change of direction or second tuning opinion wouldn't hurt.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comment..._supercharger/

Graph shows 325whp dyno.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

I do think the Intercooler is needed for more consistency, meth isn't spraying after a pull so IAT will just shoot up when cruising and the car will continue to heat soak unless you go almost WOT for it to engage again.

When you are off boost aka not WOT you don't care about high AITs. Not that they should be super high then anyways.

I'm not sure why you say the car would continue to heat soak? Can you explain? What would heat soak?

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

In conjunction to an intercooler, they would both be ideal.

Yes, I agree 100%. IC + Meth would be the best solution and the AITs would be signifigantly lower after coming out of the IC and then the meth or water/meth would cool the intake charge even more allowing him to run more aggressively.

Here is the issue: the cost to have a properly designed custom one off IC with piping designed and manufactured is going to be cost prohibitive. Just having everything mandrel bent and welded so you don't have 8 silicone couplers to worry about boost leaks is going to add up. Fabbing up mounting brackets, picking a decent IC core, welding the end tanks, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the hassle/cost. It would be cool though, pun intended. I think trying to save money by starting with an off the shelf IC, such as posted above or a page back, would end up leading to making compromises with the piping and routing etc.

Now if he went to all the trouble to have one made, I would argue to have 5 made, and sell 4 of them and the profits from selling the 4 should cover all the costs of the initial fabrication(in theory). Bigger up front investment but it should pay it's dividends.

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

But in my opinion an intercooler will be more practical for back to back pulls/track then just spraying meth the whole time and using a tank in less than an hour.

Intercoolers heat soak. The warmer it is the worse they work. They can not cool below ambient unless they are somehow cooler than the ambient air to start with(rare), which will not be for long, or you are chemically cooling the IC via a sprayer, which are not allowed at tracks and are kind of dumb anyways.

The most reliable repeatable results for back to back runs would be methanol as there is no AIT creep like you have with a intercooler that is starting to heatsoak.

A decent sized meth tank should last him plenty long imo. I mean this is 10L or 2.6 gallons: http://howertonengineering.com/produ...l-sumped-tank/ If he uses that up in a day...he is spraying a shit ton of meth.

made for the e9X:



tucked away:

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Torgus

When you are off boost aka not WOT you don't care about high AITs. Not that they should be super high then anyways.

I'm not sure why you say the car would continue to heat soak? Can you explain? What would heat soak?




Yes, I agree 100%. IC + Meth would be the best solution and the AITs would be signifigantly lower after coming out of the IC and then the meth or water/meth would cool the intake charge even more allowing him to run more aggressively.

Here is the issue: the cost to have a properly designed custom one off IC with piping designed and manufactured is going to be cost prohibitive. Just having everything mandrel bent and welded so you don't have 8 silicone couplers to worry about boost leaks is going to add up. Fabbing up mounting brackets, picking a decent IC core, welding the end tanks, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the hassle/cost. It would be cool though, pun intended. I think trying to save money by starting with an off the shelf IC, such as posted above or a page back, would end up leading to making compromises with the piping and routing etc.

Now if he went to all the trouble to have one made, I would argue to have 5 made, and sell 4 of them and the profits from selling the 4 should cover all the costs of the initial fabrication(in theory). Bigger up front investment but it should pay it's dividends.




Intercoolers heat soak. The warmer it is the worse they work. They can not cool below ambient unless they are somehow cooler than the ambient air to start with(rare), which will not be for long, or you are chemically cooling the IC via a sprayer, which are not allowed at tracks and are kind of dumb anyways.

The most reliable repeatable results for back to back runs would be methanol as there is no AIT creep like you have with a intercooler that is starting to heatsoak.

A decent sized meth tank should last him plenty long imo. I mean this is 10L or 2.6 gallons: http://howertonengineering.com/produ...l-sumped-tank/ If he uses that up in a day...he is spraying a shit ton of meth.

made for the e9X:



tucked away:

I believe the car would heatsoak for example on a canyon road where you're not WOT all the time and using smaller throttle increments or on tight sections of the track where it's slower speed corners.
I have the 7 Inch intercooler and during a pull it stays right around the ambient temp, I can send you a link to my Datazap if you want to look at some logs. But to the point, a meth injection setup seems relatively more simple, similar to setting it up to our N54/N55 in same aspect. May even be able to use the same kit and would need to tap a spot in the pipe before the IM. Making the intercooler is the harder part and would be nice to see that tackled. I'm not sure if you're familiar with other platorms but would it be possible to have a water to air heat exchanger like the E55 AMG (m113k motor) has?

[CobraMarty]

Orient me. Where is that aluminum top picture tank? Trunk?

And fabricating an intake manifold with an integrated water-air intercooler is probably the best option for an intercooler. Expensive but doable.

There is just no room for the ducting for the FMIC air-air.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Orient me. Where is that aluminum top picture tank? Trunk?

in the trunk!
I swapped my bin for the one in that picture to accomodate my mufflers.

[CobraMarty]

Gottcha. Thx.

All this 'ribbing', the real truth is, at least for me, I'm jealous.

It's a nice weekend, I'd have to be locked up to not go and get it and drive it home.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Gottcha. Thx.

All this 'ribbing', the real truth is, at least for me, I'm jealous.

It's a nice weekend, I'd have to be locked up to not go and get it and drive it home.

I would, but I doubt my wahman wants to drive back alone... because I'd probably lose her on the way back.

In all seriousness, if I had some pals that were down, I'd make the drive so one could drive whatever car back.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

I would absolutely expect more. I will respectfully disagree with you in some aspects. The problem is no one in this platform wants to take it to someone else, BPC has done a great job developing the N/A output for these motors, which in turn makes them the N52 specialist to all the guys here. The other forum member made over 300whp on pump gas, Noir makes less than that on e40 ethanol. Tuning isn't necessarily there, some guys know minor adjustments that others don't. If Noir brought it to an euro tuner with different experience the results could be possibly different. POSSIBLY, again, it doesn't hurt to try. For instance, Gintani tunes supercharged e92 m3's running on e85, C63/e55 supercharged AMG's on e85, Rktunes has a lot of work on supercharged M3's on e85, vf570 supercharged e46 m3, and more. Again, I wasn't intending to bash anyone or tuner, but a change of direction or second tuning opinion wouldn't hurt.

Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comment..._supercharger/

Graph shows 325whp dyno.

It’s almost like - every car is different.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422205

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

It’s almost like - every car is different.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422205

Or companies selling their product inflate their dyno numbers for increased sales. Happens on the n54 all the time.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

I believe the car would heatsoak for example on a canyon road where you're not WOT.

What exactly would Heat soak? The engine? The supercharger? It's not going to pull timing and produce less power at part throttle imo.

Also, he can choose when the meth starts to flow. It does not have to only be at WOT. Like I only start at 15psi because there is no need before on my 6466. If he needed the cooling benefits at say 3psi he could have it start then. The meth system being progressive means he can spray only a tiny bit at that psi and more as the PSIs increase. So it's not just on or off firehose of meth.

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

I have the 7 Inch intercooler and during a pull it stays right around the ambient temp, I can send you a link to my Datazap if you want to look at some logs.

I have seen vrsf 7 inche ICs heat soak on multi gear pulls.

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

It’s almost like - every car is different.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422205

Or companies selling their product inflate their dyno numbers for increased sales. Happens on the n54 all the time and many platforms. No one can touch the vendors numbers.

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Orient me. Where is that aluminum top picture tank? Trunk?

And fabricating an intake manifold with an integrated water-air intercooler is probably the best option for an intercooler. Expensive but doable.

There is just no room for the ducting for the FMIC air-air.

I agree. A water to air is the best choice given the limited space available. But that adds a lot of failure points. And then you get into the whole once the ice has melted you are just pushing around warm distilled water. Unless you loop in you ac to cool the water of course again just so much work and failure points. Very 'cool' but very unique and one off. I do agree it would be the best fitting I think.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

It’s almost like - every car is different.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1422205

I think it’s also every dyno is different

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I think it’s also every dyno is different

Not every dyno is made equal, neither is every tuner

[hassmaschine]

Ok. Whats your proof? I actually tune N52s - and I doubt there is anyone else with more hands on experience with an N52 than BPC. You're not going to find 50whp with a different tuner, there's no big secret maps or something we don't all know about. Also remembering, they also built a 500whp N52 turbo for the fun of it...

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Ok. Whats your proof? I actually tune N52s - and I doubt there is anyone else with more hands on experience with an N52 than BPC. You're not going to find 50whp with a different tuner, there's no big secret maps or something we don't all know about. Also remembering, they also built a 500whp N52 turbo for the fun of it...

So you tune N52's but you're running a BPC tune lol

[Kubricks]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Doesn't the ESS supercharger kit come with a slightly larger injector if I recall? And would an injector upgrade like the s54 injectors be sufficient? my Z4m was running full e85 stock fuel system pushing around 330whp. And by no means do I support ARMA has I've read their superchargers are sh*t, fail, and tuning is garbage. But they made an intercooler to FIT, I'm not saying to replicate it with squashed ends, but if it's been done before by some random company then I'm sure something more efficient can be made when in the right hands of a fabrication specialist.

The ess SC kit comes with E9x M3 injectors.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Kubricks

The ess SC kit comes with E9x M3 injectors.

Ah, so OP's kit didn't come with them I assume?

[Kubricks]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Ah, so OP's kit didn't come with them I assume?

My kit comes with a set of Borsh injectors, parts no. Is E9x M3 spec.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

So you tune N52's but you're running a BPC tune lol

He’s not. He runs his own tune.

It’s almost like you’re just talkin out of your behind just to talk at this point.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

He’s not. He runs his own tune.

It’s almost like you’re just talkin out of your behind just to talk at this point.

Not at all, just can't see how everyone is jumping on this bpc bandwagon when their not putting out what a lot of people would expect IMO.