[Monkeyspeed]

Update: After some emails Vargas stated that they don't believe the issue to be caused by the turbos and asked me to bring the car in for a diagnostic (not free but understandable).


7/10 - Dropped the car off
7/20 - indicated the cause of issues could potentially be from DVs or hotside chargepipe. recommended to purchase their coldside CP & BOV combo and remove hotside charge pipe to check positioning/leaks. declined purchase of parts due to no concrete determination that these parts are the fail point. hotside charge pipe was OK'd after removal and inspection. indicated a need for my flashing device to be able to log and continue diagnosing
8/1 - dropped off android logged into mhd. provided expected date for end of diagnosis: 8/3
8/28 - notified that licenses are not populating in mhd software on provided device. gave authorization to charge license towards diagnostics fees

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

Update: After some emails Vargas stated that they don't believe the issue to be caused by the turbos and asked me to bring the car in for a diagnostic (not free but understandable).


7/10 - Dropped the car off
7/20 - indicated the cause of issues could potentially be from DVs or hotside chargepipe. recommended to purchase their coldside CP & BOV combo and remove hotside charge pipe to check positioning/leaks. declined purchase of parts due to no concrete determination that these parts are the fail point. hotside charge pipe was OK'd after removal and inspection. indicated a need for my flashing device to be able to log and continue diagnosing
8/1 - dropped off android logged into mhd. provided expected date for end of diagnosis: 8/3
8/28 - notified that licenses are not populating in mhd software on provided device. gave authorization to charge license towards diagnostics fees

What was the last mod you did before the issue presented itself?

[Monkeyspeed]

Car was mostly stock and had intake, DV, and tune(proceed rev3). After quite a while of driving around like this(years) the car began to feel a little more sluggish. This was when the valve cover gasket was found to be leaking. The gasket was replaced and car drove fine again.

Several months later I noticed that the rattle from the wastegates was beginning to sound different and the turbos wouldn't build as much pressure. I started to think the wastegates were sticking. Had a mechanic buddy look at it and he suggested before pulling the trigger on new turbos that i replace some parts that are known to be common to fail.

At this point the valve cover and valve cover gasket were replaced in case of any tiny cracks that weren't noticed. The charge pipe was swapped for one from Cobb tuning and an RB PCV valve was installed. No change. The vacuum lines seemed a little hard and brittle so any of the ones that I could reach were replaced. No change.

Attempting to see this from a positive light - I decided to go FBO + upgraded turbos. All upgrades were installed the car was flashed to a 'base' tune from the tuner based on the upgrades I had installed. During the turbo installation I also requested that the oil filter housing gasket and oil cooler gasket to be replaced so the intake manifold gaskets were also replaced. Immediately there was an issue and I limped the car back. They found that those pesky clamps from the intercooler kit didn't stay tight and one of the hoses wasn't fully on. All clamps triple checked and re-tightened.

The troubleshooting begins. New HPFP, injectors,boost solenoids, DV service kit. Post #1 would be here in the timeline.

[Monkeyspeed]

Anyone else have any ideas? At this point it seems like it'll be something really odd that almost never happens or something super small that just keeps getting overlooked

[335e92tx]

So why are you still running MHD version 1.5?

Neither it nor 1.6 do load targeting in the DME.. Im not sure that has anything to do with your issue but id start with that so we can at least look from a current tool set. If you haven't Id also go with the trouble of completely reseating your hot side couplers. I can't imagine how you would see that much of a delta and it not be something very significant and Id start on the hot side.

[Darth Maul]

Curious to see what Vargas finds

[Aus335iguy]

Any update ?

[Monkeyspeed]

no updates.

@335e92tx mhd was fully uninstalled for troubleshooting. Hotside chargepipe was Vargas' first assumption and was found to be properly installed without defects. The whole system was also fully tested for leaks by each shop and passed.

[335e92tx]

I see - ok . Incorrect conclusion on my part anyway. 1.5 is not dependant on how DME does targeting.. the actual MAP version is (5, 6 or 7).

[Monkeyspeed]

10/26 - Rear turbo checks out fine. Something causing leak from or between front turbo and motor.

[Monkeyspeed]

About 1 month of shy the 1 Year anniversary of me dropping my car off at the Vargas shop. It's been a grueling ride and my car is, you guessed it, still not fixed.

Don't know how much longer I can let this continue. Between the lack of communication,treatment of customers, and not being able to resolve this issue in 11months - I don't know what to think....

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

About 1 month of shy the 1 Year anniversary of me dropping my car off at the Vargas shop. It's been a grueling ride and my car is, you guessed it, still not fixed.

Don't know how much longer I can let this continue. Between the lack of communication,treatment of customers, and not being able to resolve this issue in 11months - I don't know what to think....

Wow. I can imagine how frustrating that would feel. Not to mention the cost or inconvenience of a second car.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

About 1 month of shy the 1 Year anniversary of me dropping my car off at the Vargas shop. It's been a grueling ride and my car is, you guessed it, still not fixed.

Don't know how much longer I can let this continue. Between the lack of communication,treatment of customers, and not being able to resolve this issue in 11months - I don't know what to think....

That sounds terrible. Do you have more videos? Longer ones? It's really hard to tell what that is. Btw, if your car has any issues your car will prevent it from creating boost.

What tune are you using?
Do you still use the proceed?
Have you done a compression check/leakdown test?
Is your car producing any codes?

[Monkeyspeed]

Unfortunately that's the only video I have saved, never thought it would take this long to get resolved. Basically as you give it more throttle the RPMs would start to climb and you could hear the turbos start to spin but they wouldn't really be hitting boost targets. Right around 4psi the pressure would dump out of the recirc valves(Forge) and start building again and this would continue to happen as the RPMs climb slowly.

MHD for the tune with a custom map from a tuner Vargas recommended. No more Proceed.
Haven't done a compression check but motor seemed to run fine before it needs boost, didn't knock or tick. Intake leak and checks were performed by several shops and they all said it passed.
Only code I remember was 30FF if I was WOT for more than a few seconds.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

Unfortunately that's the only video I have saved, never thought it would take this long to get resolved. Basically as you give it more throttle the RPMs would start to climb and you could hear the turbos start to spin but they wouldn't really be hitting boost targets. Right around 4psi the pressure would dump out of the recirc valves(Forge) and start building again and this would continue to happen as the RPMs climb slowly.

MHD for the tune with a custom map from a tuner Vargas recommended. No more Proceed.
Haven't done a compression check but motor seemed to run fine before it needs boost, didn't knock or tick. Intake leak and checks were performed by several shops and they all said it passed.
Only code I remember was 30FF if I was WOT for more than a few seconds.

So you did a boost leak check? What psi was it tested too? Take a photo of your diverter valves I know forge has to be installed a certain way otherwise boost leaks. What spring are you using?

If I was you I'd run a boost leak test again and you should see the diverter valves leaking because the car builds boost and the only way it leaks is from there if it's really from the diverter valves like you say. Make sure your charge pipe has the oil ring and is double check your intake. It's rare but they can crack and that would also cause a huge boost leak. A boost leak test should determine what's going on.

[Monkeyspeed]

The diverter valves I tried replacing with turbosmart plumb backs. Also tried servicing the Forge valves and they seemed to function just fine. Vargas said they installed a different charge pipe with a blow off valve sometime recently with no change in the car's behavior. The O-Ring thing I thought about and double checked before I took the car to any shops since I've seen others forget to install it.

According to Tony, they've checked "everything". Last time I saw my car, about 6 months ago to pick something up from it, it had the filters off and with plugs for a boost leak test - so at least I know that was done. It was done at a couple other shops as well. I'm starting to lean more and more towards the turbos being defective and Vargas not wanting to own up to it and honor the warranty. I've seen posts recently where other people either A.)received little to no communication(who doesn't have a cell phone these days?) B.)Warranty was not honored on products they purchased

Last I heard from Tony regarding my car was 5/11/18. I sent 2 emails since, one on 6/4 and one on 6/11 with no response. I called Tuesday and the lady on the phone said he'd email me that day or the next. It's Thursday now, I called again and was told that she'd email him to get a status update.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

The diverter valves I tried replacing with turbosmart plumb backs. Also tried servicing the Forge valves and they seemed to function just fine. Vargas said they installed a different charge pipe with a blow off valve sometime recently with no change in the car's behavior. The O-Ring thing I thought about and double checked before I took the car to any shops since I've seen others forget to install it.

According to Tony, they've checked "everything". Last time I saw my car, about 6 months ago to pick something up from it, it had the filters off and with plugs for a boost leak test - so at least I know that was done. It was done at a couple other shops as well. I'm starting to lean more and more towards the turbos being defective and Vargas not wanting to own up to it and honor the warranty. I've seen posts recently where other people either A.)received little to no communication(who doesn't have a cell phone these days?) B.)Warranty was not honored on products they purchased

Last I heard from Tony regarding my car was 5/11/18. I sent 2 emails since, one on 6/4 and one on 6/11 with no response. I called Tuesday and the lady on the phone said he'd email me that day or the next. It's Thursday now, I called again and was told that she'd email him to get a status update.

I understand why he wouldn't want to blame the turbos, I also had an issue with my GCs but that was from a defective propeller that broke. My only guess would be a defective wategate if the turbo propellers are fine.

But even I didnt blame the turbos until I did every test possible first. Do a compression test and a leakdown test as well as walnut blasting if you didnt it recently. Sticking valves, worn piston rings will prevent boost from staying in. I'd also replace all vacuum lines.

In order to help you more we need logs and your engine test results. Not building boost can also be your boost solenoids. I'd also put your stock tune back on.

[Monkeyspeed]

The car is due for walnut blasting but considering that my intake manifold was taken off I would think that they would have said that would need to be done.

I wouldn't want to blame the turbos as well but I've had almost everything replaced or checked. Boost pressure tests have been done by Edge in Dublin and Vargas Turbos as well as by a couple indy shops.

The following have been replaced or installed
HPFP,LPFP,Injectors,spark plugs,coil packs,inlets,outlets,turbos,valve cover and gasket, the hose from the vc to the inlet,chargepipe(3 times now), intercooler, downpipes, intake manifold gaskets,oil filter housing gasket, boost solenoids, the hose from the vacuum pump to the vac hoses that run to the vac canisters,
tried these tunes - base pro-tune from Vargas tuner, MHD stage 1, stock with MHD uninstalled

I probably forgot to list a couple things...


I'll try to find where my logs went and post those up.

[White330]

Originally Posted by Monkeyspeed

The car is due for walnut blasting but considering that my intake manifold was taken off I would think that they would have said that would need to be done.

I wouldn't want to blame the turbos as well but I've had almost everything replaced or checked. Boost pressure tests have been done by Edge in Dublin and Vargas Turbos as well as by a couple indy shops.

The following have been replaced or installed
HPFP,LPFP,Injectors,spark plugs,coil packs,inlets,outlets,turbos,valve cover and gasket, the hose from the vc to the inlet,chargepipe(3 times now), intercooler, downpipes, intake manifold gaskets,oil filter housing gasket, boost solenoids, the hose from the vacuum pump to the vac hoses that run to the vac canisters,
tried these tunes - base pro-tune from Vargas tuner, MHD stage 1, stock with MHD uninstalled

I probably forgot to list a couple things...


I'll try to find where my logs went and post those up.

Did they have anything to say about checking the wastegate actuators? They may not be holding under vacuum and dumping the boost.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by White330

Did they have anything to say about checking the wastegate actuators? They may not be holding under vacuum and dumping the boost.

I mentioned testing the wastegates as well but the more i rethink about it the wastegates work on vacuum only which means that they are only open when the car is in boost. Once there is boot the vacuum disapears and the wastegates close.

I'm not sure what his turbos look like, but if he really belives its them he should remove the outlets and downpipes and take a look at the insides and look for damage, or oil. This issue feels like a diverter valve problem, but he said vargas also tested this which leans me back to his engine. If his pistons rings are letting air go by you will have low compression and this will let boost leak out making you think its the turbos when its really your engine.

Until the op does a proper compression test/leak down test and posts his results hes just grasping at straws. When it comes to things like this you start with the easiest tests then move onto the more complicated ones. Diagnoising is like following a line, eventually you will reach the end of the line and find out whats wrong. It sounds like he did all the other basic tests which leaves him with compression/leakdown tests then if those pass move onto removing the downpipes/outlets and visual inspect the turbos.

In his original video he has a choo choo sound which sounds like a train to me and that sounds like an engine problem not a turbo problem. Turbo problems that fail to create boost create a turbo whine sound like this.

[buster84]

OP, upload some new videos of how the car sounds at idle. Your original video is 4 seconds and very hard to hear but it does sound similar to a rod bearing issue, but maybe it's no where near as bad. Without more information it's just a guessing game though.

[White330]

Originally Posted by buster84

I mentioned testing the wastegates as well but the more i rethink about it the wastegates work on vacuum only which means that they are only open when the car isn't in boost. Once there is boot the vacuum disapears and the wastegates close.

I'm not sure what his turbos look like, but if he really belives its them he should remove the outlets and downpipes and take a look at the insides and look for damage, or oil. This issue feels like a diverter valve problem, but he said vargas also tested this which leans me back to his engine. If his pistons rings are letting air go by you will have low compression and this will let boost leak out making you think its the turbos when its really your engine.

Until the op does a proper compression test/leak down test and posts his results hes just grasping at straws. When it comes to things like this you start with the easiest tests then move onto the more complicated ones. Diagnoising is like following a line, eventually you will reach the end of the line and find out whats wrong. It sounds like he did all the other basic tests which leaves him with compression/leakdown tests then if those pass move onto removing the downpipes/outlets and visual inspect the turbos.

In his original video he has a choo choo sound which sounds like a train to me and that sounds like an engine problem not a turbo problem. Turbo problems that fail to create boost create a turbo whine sound like this.

Actually with our turbos, at vacuum the wastegates stay closed and with boost they open. So I guess my thought is if the going into to boost they start to open, but then fail and shut and this keeps happening causing the choo choo noise. Another thing OP may want to check is his Cats(if he has them). If they are clogged, that can cause too much back pressure and huge problems.