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      06-06-2018, 10:45 AM   #1
Agni
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Tesla Model 3 already outselling BMW 3 Series?

http://www.starkinsider.com/2018/06/...o-segment.html

This is concerning...it seems like the Model 3 is doing really well.

Hopefully once the G20 comes out, BMW can take back some of the lost market share.

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      06-06-2018, 11:08 AM   #2
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The F series doesn't really get my attention as much as the E series does. I am not surprised the decline in sales. Every time I see a E92 m sport side by side with a F32 m sport...I catch myself starring at the E92 more often!
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      06-06-2018, 11:27 AM   #3
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Impressive. Thanks for sharing.
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      06-06-2018, 11:43 AM   #4
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I am seeing lots of Model 3 here in Orange County, so there are definitely lots of interests. I do wonder if F30 sales issues is due to Model 3, or is it being cannibalized by the new X1 and X3? I see way more new SUV's than sedans, regardless of the brands (maybe except Tesla).
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      06-06-2018, 11:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomF80 View Post
I am seeing lots of Model 3 here in Orange County, so there are definitely lots of interests. I do wonder if F30 sales issues is due to Model 3, or is it being cannibalized by the new X1 and X3? I see way more new SUV's than sedans, regardless of the brands (maybe except Tesla).
Certainly SUV's are more to blame. Just probably not the new X1. We had an X2 as a service loaner last week, it sure feels cheaper and dynamically challenged compared to our F30 or the X3.

I have gone from rarely seeing Model 3's to seeing two or three a day here in Dallas though. It's not Model X ugly, but it's also definitely not a good looking car.
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      06-06-2018, 12:04 PM   #6
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Who to believe?

https://www.recode.net/2018/6/4/1741...-been-refunded
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      06-06-2018, 12:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
The problem is even if 25% cancelled the reservation that 75% and growing number is huge. Keep in mind that Tesla is doing this with 0 marketing and a 2 year wait list. And they can't even open dealerships in some states like Texas.

I am curious to see what the sales impact on Model 3 will be once the $7500 Tax rebate starts running out later this year. Then BMW and others will have a competitive advantage for their electrics.
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      06-06-2018, 12:16 PM   #8
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Both. There were half a million deposits, which is a year's worth of F150's or about seven or eight years of US 3er sales.
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      06-06-2018, 12:21 PM   #9
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With nearly 500,000 preorders and a production now ramping steadily toward the eventual goal of building 5000 per week, it was never a secret that the Model 3 would easily be able to outsell all existing entries in the entry level luxury sedan segment. Furthermore, while it is true that the Model 3 is positioned as an entry level luxury sedan, it is no doubt pulling in conquest customers from nearly all automotive segments right now. In other words, both the huge pent up demand and the lack of any practical EV vehicles other than those in compact or subcompact vehicle classes are obviously playing big roles in its current success.

The 3 Series is near its end of life for this generation and sales should begin to increase once the G20 has had time to ramp up. However, yes, it is very clear that electric vehicle popularity is on the rise, and it is easy to see why BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all have plans to add multiple BEV products over the next few years.

Just how long Tesla can enjoy their current success and whether they will be able to match up against the existing automakers in the long term are big questions. Whatever happens, the industry stalwarts won't be going anywhere.
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      06-06-2018, 12:43 PM   #10
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While I don't like the Model 3, I appreciate what Tesla is doing and also believe the automotive industry is necessitating a shake up... Competition is always a good thing... and frankly the dealer model is awful, I hope Tesla makes far more ground on that front.
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      06-06-2018, 12:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
While I don't like the Model 3, I appreciate what Tesla is doing and also believe the automotive industry is necessitating a shake up... Competition is always a good thing... and frankly the dealer model is awful, I hope Tesla makes far more ground on that front.
Don't hold out too much hope on the dealership improvement yet. We had a Model X, and although our pre-sales interactions with Tesla were quite good, the post sales services and interactions were definitely not up to par compared to our experiences with BMW, Toyota, and VW.
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      06-06-2018, 12:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomF80 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
While I don't like the Model 3, I appreciate what Tesla is doing and also believe the automotive industry is necessitating a shake up... Competition is always a good thing... and frankly the dealer model is awful, I hope Tesla makes far more ground on that front.
Don't hold out too much hope on the dealership improvement yet. We had a Model X, and although our pre-sales interactions with Tesla were quite good, the post sales services and interactions were definitely not up to par compared to our experiences with BMW, Toyota, and VW.
A dealership model is fine... however it needs to be a manufacturer owned model
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      06-06-2018, 01:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Tesla has DELIVERED 6250 last month to customers.
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      06-06-2018, 01:15 PM   #14
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How do 3 series sales compare to the other german competitors?

Not sure I trust any numbers coming out of Tesla, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised considering how much of a turd the current gen 3 series is. Hope BMW can fix their mess with the next revision and get back their mojo.
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      06-06-2018, 01:15 PM   #15
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What precisely does that graph show? There is no way in the world Tesla delivered more cars than even the smallest player in the segment. They were cagey in their response and the graph is not labeled. Preorders? Until they can actually ramp production and start cranking out lightly optioned cars this is all phantom ware clickbait bullshit.

I could draw up a label-free no source graph that implies I'm the largest car maker in the US.
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      06-06-2018, 01:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
There is no way in the world Tesla delivered more cars than even the smallest player in the segment.
Why do you believe that? They are now up to about 3500/wk, or over 14000/mo. The Germans sell at best, what, 5000 or 6000 a month?
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      06-06-2018, 01:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
What precisely does that graph show? There is no way in the world Tesla delivered more cars than even the smallest player in the segment. They were cagey in their response and the graph is not labeled. Preorders? Until they can actually ramp production and start cranking out lightly optioned cars this is all phantom ware clickbait bullshit.

I could draw up a label-free no source graph that implies I'm the largest car maker in the US.
That was number of vehicles delivered last month to customers, not pre-orders. They delivered 6250 Model3 in May, and 9220 vehicles total.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-sales-may-2018-u-s/

Last edited by MightyMouseTech; 06-06-2018 at 01:28 PM..
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      06-06-2018, 01:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
There is no way in the world Tesla delivered more cars than even the smallest player in the segment.
Why do you believe that? They are now up to about 3500/wk, or over 14,000/mo. The Germans sell at best, what, 5000 or 6000 a month?
Ok just taking the graph at face value assuming the data is all apples to apple - which I don't necessarily believe - Tesla delivered more model 3s than Audi and Lexus did combined? I'm sorry I just don't buy it not with the issues and Herr Musk going crazy on the media. Their latest earnings call was a complete shit show that doesn't happen when things are all running smoothly.

I could very well be wrong and would be great for them if I am I just don't think we're there yet.
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      06-06-2018, 01:29 PM   #19
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A little narrower victory, just California sales.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/te...-in-california
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      06-06-2018, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Ok just taking the graph at face value assuming the data is all apples to apple - which I don't necessarily believe - Tesla delivered more model 3s than Audi and Lexus did combined? I'm sorry I just don't buy it not with the issues and Herr Musk going crazy on the media. Their latest earnings call was a complete shit show that doesn't happen when things are all running smoothly.

I could very well be wrong and would be great for them if I am I just don't think we're there yet.
I dunno...the stock is up a lot today on this news: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/tsla?p=tsla
Seems like people believe in Tesla?

One my biggest concerns for BMW and all is that if Tesla succeeds in building very automated factory, they will have super low labor costs. They won't be hamstrung by labor/unions. If Musk can re-land rockets, he can figure out (eventually) how to build a super automated factory with low marginal cost per unit. I think thats his plan for Shanghai factory and beyond.
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      06-06-2018, 01:30 PM   #21
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but unsurprising i would think. what made the 3 series special in the past: heavenly steering? gone. manual transmission? gone (effectively, especially with upcoming generation). spartan yet functional interior? gone. tight proportions? gone. the 3 series is now a tech package surrounded by car
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      06-06-2018, 01:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
I could very well be wrong and would be great for them if I am I just don't think we're there yet.
I mean did you look up the numbers? I admittedly didn't, but I do know the rough numbers for sales volumes in this segment (which I shared in my earlier post) as well as the fact that Tesla has said they are building about 3500 Model 3 per week now. Based no that knowledge, the graph seems very reasonable to me. Audi and Lexus do not sell nearly as much volume as BMW and Mercedes typically do, so it is very possible that even when combined they were outsold by the Model 3.
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