Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?

bluescoupe · 10-18-2008, 08:12 AM

My '07, old software, 335i coupe is to be reprogrammed soon, due to replacement of the amplifier ecu(?). Part on order.
I don't know what version I have, but have no lag.

QUESTION:
Is a dyno, before and after, useful? Would it prove anything?
or waste of my time & money?
Has anyone done this?

iScream · 10-18-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluescoupe

My '07, old software, 335i coupe is to be reprogrammed soon, due to replacement of the amplifier ecu(?). Part on order.
I don't know what version I have, but have no lag.

QUESTION:
Is a dyno, before and after, useful? Would it prove anything?
or waste of my time & money?
Has anyone done this?

If you can get someone to do a WOT dyno from 1k RPM up, with a graph showing boost pressure over time, then it would be tremendously useful. Please do this, if you can. If you do it right and post the results, I'm sure a couple of people here would defray the $150 or so it will cost you to do both dynos.

Edit: Make sure you've driven the car for 10-15 minutes immediately before both dynos, and let it warm up for a few minutes once you are on the machine.

XS4 · 10-19-2008, 04:48 PM

Can anyone comment whether the lag is diminished or overridden if you have an aftermarket tune (procede, jb3, sstt, etc) or hardware (downpipes, ic)?
Sorry if this has been discussed before (haven't made it thru all 100+ pages of this thread), but don't some tunes remap waste gate behavior?

iScream · 10-19-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XS4

Can anyone comment whether the lag is diminished or overridden if you have an aftermarket tune (procede, jb3, sstt, etc) or hardware (downpipes, ic)?
Sorry if this has been discussed before (haven't made it thru all 100+ pages of this thread), but don't some tunes remap waste gate behavior?

slubu, maybe you should add this one to the FAQ on page 1.

quattr0 · 10-19-2008, 05:45 PM

I have a 335i (3 days old) steptronic with paddle shifter built 03/08. Coming from a WRX so I *should* know what a turbo lag means. I do not experience any lag from 1500rpm and up as described in all the posts in here. I mean while I'm at 1500rpm range and in D mode, i hit the gas and it goes instantly.

Since you all mentioned this issue happens to both Automatic and Manual, thought I would chime in.

midlife · 10-19-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

I have a 335i (3 days old) steptronic with paddle shifter built 03/08. Coming from a WRX so I *should* know what a turbo lag means. I do not experience any lag from 1500rpm and up as described in all the posts in here. I mean while I'm at 1500rpm range and in D mode, i hit the gas and it goes instantly.

Since you all mentioned this issue happens to both Automatic and Manual, thought I would chime in.

wow, your first post here and you posted a comment that - to put it mildly - could stir up ALOT of controversy and differences of opinion..

be ready to be called a bmw mole, mentally challenged, etc.

btw, i find it incredible - almost unbelievable - that with the newest bmw software you do not feel any lag at 1,500 rpm ....maybe your butt dyno is broken ??

quattr0 · 10-19-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

wow, your first post here and you posted a comment that - to put it mildly - could stir up ALOT of controversy and differences of opinion..

be ready to be called a bmw mole, mentally challenged, etc.

btw, i find it incredible - almost unbelievable - that with the newest bmw software you do not feel any lag at 1,500 rpm ....maybe your butt dyno is broken ??

Perhaps I need to take a vid to prove it? Or, I'm used to the low-end lag from WRX and can't distinguish?

Erregend · 10-19-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

I have a 335i ..... built 03/08...

March build may not have 29.2 ???

See slides attached to the April Service RoundTable: http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B060408g.htm

Prof3ssor · 10-19-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

I have a 335i (3 days old) steptronic with paddle shifter built 03/08. Coming from a WRX so I *should* know what a turbo lag means. I do not experience any lag from 1500rpm and up as described in all the posts in here. I mean while I'm at 1500rpm range and in D mode, i hit the gas and it goes instantly.

Since you all mentioned this issue happens to both Automatic and Manual, thought I would chime in.

Do yourself a favor and do not bring your car to your dealer for service. If you absolutely need to then you better tell them not to perform a DME upgrade. Do a search in here for how to find out what version software you have and I bet it is not => 29.2

quattr0 · 10-19-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

Perhaps I need to take a vid to prove it? Or, I'm used to the low-end lag from WRX and can't distinguish?

Is this what you gent been discussed? Thought it's normal to me....

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3...6-9b3a016212ea

midlife · 10-19-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prof3ssor

Do yourself a favor and do not bring your car to your dealer for service. If you absolutely need to then you better tell them not to perform a DME upgrade. Do a search in here for how to find out what version software you have and I bet it is not => 29.2

his car production date indicates he definitely has v81 with 29.2 or later software.

he says he has no lag... if this is true his car is probably 1 in a couple hundred thousand that does not have lag

OR his butt dyno needs a complete rebuild.

not trying to insult anyone, cause this is just my 2 cents.

midlife · 10-19-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

Perhaps I need to take a vid to prove it? Or, I'm used to the low-end lag from WRX and can't distinguish?

i would definitely put my money on the latter.

quattr0 · 10-19-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

i would definitely put my money on the latter.

Did you watch the vid I just posted?

Bjorn · 10-19-2008, 10:45 PM

quattr0,

the problem, as has been mentioned a couple of pages ago, is that everyone calls this problem "turbo lag". it's actually not "turbo lag" that i'm sure you have felt with your WRX where you mash on the gas and it takes a couple of seconds for the turbos to spool up.

on the 335i's, bmw has stated that on their website that "Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1400-5000". With the new software update, many are not seeing the 300lbs of torque at 1400rpms anymore, but instead at 3000rpms. so technically, if your butt dyno is calibrated correctly, you shouldn't feel a burst of torque anywhere in the 3000rpm range since your car should already be outputting its max torque at 1400rpms.

yes this is also my first post... but i've been following this thread for a while now. hope my first post wasnt a bust

Quisp · 10-19-2008, 11:11 PM

Bluescoupe, I would chip in for some of that dyno cost to get a good before and after from the same car. It is very important that they start measuring from 1000rpm!
I havent been able to drive my car for over a week now becuase of two bent rims. I thought picking new wheels was supposed to be fun, my ass it is fun. Too many out there and so many similar.
I really wonder inf BMW is going to put a lot of effort and manhours into solving this or keep trying to patch and stall. Is it worth it to them to devote a lot of time and energy into something they have already received their profit from, or is it more worthwhile to move forward to the newer models, bringing in more dollars, and hoping to avoid a big public bitch slapping by the press if they acknowledge the Engine of the year had some "dificulties" and they werent forthcoming about it. There is no way they can look good if this gets otut at this point. They denied too long already to save face with it.

BruinMD · 10-20-2008, 12:00 AM

I'm afraid to say this... but I think my lag is gone

So I got my car back last week from the body shop after being there two weeks after some bitch on her cell phone rear ends me.

Anyways, I get it back and I've been driving around and besides the steering wheel being a lot stiffer, I don't notice the usual lag that was so apparent before. At first I thought I was just imagining it, but the more I drive it, the more I think its gone or significantly reduced. Objective data:

MPG before 29.2: 17.4
MPG after 29.2: 19.1
MPG since I got the car back: 16.7 (haven't been on the freeways too much yet)

I'd be more than happy to let anyone in the area test drive to see what they think. I'm planning on calling the shop tomorrow to see exactly what they did to my car. I know they definitely did more than just body work cuz the steering wheel is A LOT stiffer.

Rando · 10-20-2008, 06:04 AM

It's a little tricky to compare MPG numbers like that (even though they are numbers

) unless you really follow the same route. The 335i's MPG is extremely sensitive to the mix of city/highway... because in practice it is something like 16 city / 31 highway!

Regarding the steering wheel stiffness: that could be due to tire pressure changes or re-alignment, which may have been done in the repair. (And of course tire pressure and alignment affect MPG too, sometimes significantly.)

allan · 10-20-2008, 06:23 AM

I just talked to the master mechanic of my dealer (Germany). He called me after I complained with BMW AG in Germany. I was told that BMW won't come out with a software update to solve the "turbo lag" problem. He was aware of the "power problem" after the software update.
He also follows the internet complaints of 335i customers (Germany only). He told me that he read "meyergru's" postings on the German forum but he has no information about it from BMW AG Germany.

I also wrote a letter to a local Car magazine and they will contact me after 27 Oct. 08.

allan · 10-20-2008, 07:50 AM

posting deleted since facts couldn't be verified (sorry)

meyergru · 10-20-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan

Just found this on a German web forum.

A German guy had his e92 on Oct 14th tested. This is the link to the diagram:

http://335i.2cpm.de/BMW-335i-p.jpg

max torque of 418.3 NM at 3180 RPM (note, it's Newton Meter)

Yes, but we discussed that diagram and there are several implausabilities in it. For one - the power is way too small. Gearing losses are way too much. Also, the tester did not know that he had a turbo car on his dyno (a friend of the OP had a turbo car which was water-cooled during the run).

The OP could not tell why the diagram shows no power below 2200 RPM, but said that the car has no pronounced turbo lag.

Link to original thread.

Erregend · 10-20-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

Did you watch the vid I just posted?

Yes, and (from what I could see through the shaking) it looked to me like a normal "Kickdown" to a lower gear which by itself proves nothing and just muddies the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

his car production date indicates he definitely has v81 with 29.2 or later software.

The tech bulletin did not come out until April. When did V81 show up and when did they start shipping with 29.2?

Source of your info? I can't find anything definitive on TIS site but would like to find it. Any easy way to identify if a car has V80 vs V81 without BMW testset?

mistermojorizin · 10-20-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattr0

Did you watch the vid I just posted?

in the vid, we don't know when you hit the gas, but you start at 1,500 and it takes a while, like a second or more to get to 2,000, then from 2,000 to 3,000, another second and from 3,000 it just goes balls out.

go drive an N/A v8, like an LS1 and note the difference.

10-18-2008, 08:12 AM	#2333
bluescoupe motorhead 57 Rep 465 Posts Drives: 2017 M2 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: west coast, FL iTrader: (0)	My '07, old software, 335i coupe is to be reprogrammed soon, due to replacement of the amplifier ecu(?). Part on order. I don't know what version I have, but have no lag. QUESTION: Is a dyno, before and after, useful? Would it prove anything? or waste of my time & money? Has anyone done this?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2008, 04:48 PM	#2335
XS4 slave to the dark side 30 Rep 173 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Sedan Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (3)	Can anyone comment whether the lag is diminished or overridden if you have an aftermarket tune (procede, jb3, sstt, etc) or hardware (downpipes, ic)? Sorry if this has been discussed before (haven't made it thru all 100+ pages of this thread), but don't some tunes remap waste gate behavior?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2008, 05:45 PM	#2337
quattr0 First Lieutenant 153 Rep 390 Posts Drives: 335i DD, 991.2 weekend toy! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: US iTrader: (0)	I have a 335i (3 days old) steptronic with paddle shifter built 03/08. Coming from a WRX so I should know what a turbo lag means. I do not experience any lag from 1500rpm and up as described in all the posts in here. I mean while I'm at 1500rpm range and in D mode, i hit the gas and it goes instantly. Since you all mentioned this issue happens to both Automatic and Manual, thought I would chime in.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2008, 10:45 PM	#2346
Bjorn Enlisted Member 3 Rep 38 Posts Drives: F10 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: California iTrader: (1)	quattr0, the problem, as has been mentioned a couple of pages ago, is that everyone calls this problem "turbo lag". it's actually not "turbo lag" that i'm sure you have felt with your WRX where you mash on the gas and it takes a couple of seconds for the turbos to spool up. on the 335i's, bmw has stated that on their website that "Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 300/1400-5000". With the new software update, many are not seeing the 300lbs of torque at 1400rpms anymore, but instead at 3000rpms. so technically, if your butt dyno is calibrated correctly, you shouldn't feel a burst of torque anywhere in the 3000rpm range since your car should already be outputting its max torque at 1400rpms. yes this is also my first post... but i've been following this thread for a while now. hope my first post wasnt a bust
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-19-2008, 11:11 PM	#2347
Quisp Does not play well with others 80 Rep 1,787 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arizona iTrader: (4)	Bluescoupe, I would chip in for some of that dyno cost to get a good before and after from the same car. It is very important that they start measuring from 1000rpm! I havent been able to drive my car for over a week now becuase of two bent rims. I thought picking new wheels was supposed to be fun, my ass it is fun. Too many out there and so many similar. I really wonder inf BMW is going to put a lot of effort and manhours into solving this or keep trying to patch and stall. Is it worth it to them to devote a lot of time and energy into something they have already received their profit from, or is it more worthwhile to move forward to the newer models, bringing in more dollars, and hoping to avoid a big public bitch slapping by the press if they acknowledge the Engine of the year had some "dificulties" and they werent forthcoming about it. There is no way they can look good if this gets otut at this point. They denied too long already to save face with it. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-20-2008, 12:00 AM	#2348
BruinMD Private 7 Rep 53 Posts Drives: '07 TiAg 335i Coupe Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	I'm afraid to say this... but I think my lag is gone So I got my car back last week from the body shop after being there two weeks after some bitch on her cell phone rear ends me. Anyways, I get it back and I've been driving around and besides the steering wheel being a lot stiffer, I don't notice the usual lag that was so apparent before. At first I thought I was just imagining it, but the more I drive it, the more I think its gone or significantly reduced. Objective data: MPG before 29.2: 17.4 MPG after 29.2: 19.1 MPG since I got the car back: 16.7 (haven't been on the freeways too much yet) I'd be more than happy to let anyone in the area test drive to see what they think. I'm planning on calling the shop tomorrow to see exactly what they did to my car. I know they definitely did more than just body work cuz the steering wheel is A LOT stiffer.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-20-2008, 06:04 AM	#2349
Rando Lieutenant 52 Rep 487 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	It's a little tricky to compare MPG numbers like that (even though they are numbers ) unless you really follow the same route. The 335i's MPG is extremely sensitive to the mix of city/highway... because in practice it is something like 16 city / 31 highway! Regarding the steering wheel stiffness: that could be due to tire pressure changes or re-alignment, which may have been done in the repair. (And of course tire pressure and alignment affect MPG too, sometimes significantly.)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-20-2008, 06:23 AM	#2350
allan Private First Class 8 Rep 133 Posts Drives: E93, barbera/cream Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: FRG iTrader: (0)	no fix in sight ?? I just talked to the master mechanic of my dealer (Germany). He called me after I complained with BMW AG in Germany. I was told that BMW won't come out with a software update to solve the "turbo lag" problem. He was aware of the "power problem" after the software update. He also follows the internet complaints of 335i customers (Germany only). He told me that he read "meyergru's" postings on the German forum but he has no information about it from BMW AG Germany. I also wrote a letter to a local Car magazine and they will contact me after 27 Oct. 08.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-20-2008, 07:50 AM	#2351
allan Private First Class 8 Rep 133 Posts Drives: E93, barbera/cream Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: FRG iTrader: (0)	posting deleted since facts couldn't be verified (sorry) Last edited by allan; 10-20-2008 at 08:00 AM.. Reason: facts.
	Appreciate 0 Quote