[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Nope:

That’s an oddball size. I was thinking of using my bearing puller
With a spacer which I can machine for the bolts on each side.
I would just need to source the bolts, maybe that thread
Is exclusive to lug bolts.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

That’s an oddball size. I was thinking of using my bearing puller
With a spacer which I can machine for the bolts on each side.
I would just need to source the bolts, maybe that thread
Is exclusive to lug bolts.

It's just metric fine thread for M12. Any decent hardware store will have bolts in M12x1.5

[07lilredwagon]

okay, an update from the OP.....

you collectively hit the nail or axle shaft on the head.

Axles are rust welding themselves to hubs more frequently (researched locally and on the web) especially in humid climates that have 4 seasons. like here in NY.

my car has 190,000 on it and is 12 years old now...

I have cleaned and painted the hub nuts and hubs surfaces 4-5 times over the years, keeping the rust at bay from the outside...This keeps the nut in tact so the socket still fits and you can get them off, BUT

after getting the hub nuts off, the rust does not penetrate past the nut so it was not getting in there....at least not really....

The CV joint interface/back of the bearing is where things get ugly.

I replaced both bearings at once, and glad I did. I found evidence of rust working its way past the rear seal of the GOOD bearing...so it was just a matter of time for that bearing too...The bad bearing had a compromised rear seal due to rust ingress to the point of the rear set of bearings getting trashed and making noise.....

Here is what I think. There is a small notch for the abs sensor in the back of the hub. I believe, from the physical evidence that this is where the moisture actually gets in. The hub has a slight beveled groove in the back of the bearing cup for what I am assuming is to allow for a successful seating when pressed in place.

the abs notch is higher than the lower part of that groove. moisture slowly may travel down the edge of that notch over time and begin to rust. (its a tiny notch, btw...about the width of my smallest pick) once that process starts, the rust swells and grows until it eventually works its way up to the bearing seal and due to the tight tolerances and spinning forces, works its way in past the seal.

just my theory based on what I saw when pulling the hubs apart.

I did salvage my axles and CV joints, refurbish all the brake and suspension parts and am about to put the car back together. its been a 3 week process!

incidentally, I broke 2 manual pullers, resorted to a 5 ton and then a 12 ton hydraulic puller. These alone would not budge the axle from the hub!.....the answer, 550 degrees of heat with MAP gas along with the 12 ton puller, liquid wrench (not WD40) ice cubes for the axle and CV joint (not realllllly needed) and practice.

The first axle took hours even days!....(started with propane and the wrong tools, as mentioned above, the right combo is key!)

The second axle took minutes. seriously, it took longer to get the puller in place alone (its a BIG puller) and strapped closed for safety than it did to crank it up and put the heat to it...

when you hear that first POP, its music to your ears!


I have pics if you guys are interested.

thanks for the good thoughts.

JP

[07lilredwagon]

Oh, incidentally.

if you are taking the hubs off for any reason, it makes sense to remove the dust shield and backing plate for the brakes...you can really see everything then!



JP

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

okay, an update from the OP.....

you collectively hit the nail or axle shaft on the head.

Axles are rust welding themselves to hubs more frequently (researched locally and on the web) especially in humid climates that have 4 seasons. like here in NY.

my car has 190,000 on it and is 12 years old now...

I have cleaned and painted the hub nuts and hubs surfaces 4-5 times over the years, keeping the rust at bay from the outside...This keeps the nut in tact so the socket still fits and you can get them off, BUT

after getting the hub nuts off, the rust does not penetrate past the nut so it was not getting in there....at least not really....

The CV joint interface/back of the bearing is where things get ugly.

I replaced both bearings at once, and glad I did. I found evidence of rust working its way past the rear seal of the GOOD bearing...so it was just a matter of time for that bearing too...The bad bearing had a compromised rear seal due to rust ingress to the point of the rear set of bearings getting trashed and making noise.....

Here is what I think. There is a small notch for the abs sensor in the back of the hub. I believe, from the physical evidence that this is where the moisture actually gets in. The hub has a slight beveled groove in the back of the bearing cup for what I am assuming is to allow for a successful seating when pressed in place.

the abs notch is higher than the lower part of that groove. moisture slowly may travel down the edge of that notch over time and begin to rust. (its a tiny notch, btw...about the width of my smallest pick) once that process starts, the rust swells and grows until it eventually works its way up to the bearing seal and due to the tight tolerances and spinning forces, works its way in past the seal.

just my theory based on what I saw when pulling the hubs apart.

I did salvage my axles and CV joints, refurbish all the brake and suspension parts and am about to put the car back together. its been a 3 week process!

incidentally, I broke 2 manual pullers, resorted to a 5 ton and then a 12 ton hydraulic puller. These alone would not budge the axle from the hub!.....the answer, 550 degrees of heat with MAP gas along with the 12 ton puller, liquid wrench (not WD40) ice cubes for the axle and CV joint (not realllllly needed) and practice.

The first axle took hours even days!....(started with propane and the wrong tools, as mentioned above, the right combo is key!)

The second axle took minutes. seriously, it took longer to get the puller in place alone (its a BIG puller) and strapped closed for safety than it did to crank it up and put the heat to it...

when you hear that first POP, its music to your ears!


I have pics if you guys are interested.

thanks for the good thoughts.

JP

Good that it worked out. My right halfshaft came out with 2 hits from a 3lb. sledge hammer. The left was rusted in place. Even Kroil didn't do anything. The moisture comes in from the rear of the hub. I know this because on my left halfshaft the pulse ring rusted so bad it was hitting the face of the speed sensor and breaking the seal of the sensor. Most owners don't keep their cars long enough for this to become an issue for them.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

okay, an update from the OP.....

you collectively hit the nail or axle shaft on the head.

Axles are rust welding themselves to hubs more frequently (researched locally and on the web) especially in humid climates that have 4 seasons. like here in NY.

my car has 190,000 on it and is 12 years old now...

I have cleaned and painted the hub nuts and hubs surfaces 4-5 times over the years, keeping the rust at bay from the outside...This keeps the nut in tact so the socket still fits and you can get them off, BUT

after getting the hub nuts off, the rust does not penetrate past the nut so it was not getting in there....at least not really....

The CV joint interface/back of the bearing is where things get ugly.

I replaced both bearings at once, and glad I did. I found evidence of rust working its way past the rear seal of the GOOD bearing...so it was just a matter of time for that bearing too...The bad bearing had a compromised rear seal due to rust ingress to the point of the rear set of bearings getting trashed and making noise.....

Here is what I think. There is a small notch for the abs sensor in the back of the hub. I believe, from the physical evidence that this is where the moisture actually gets in. The hub has a slight beveled groove in the back of the bearing cup for what I am assuming is to allow for a successful seating when pressed in place.

the abs notch is higher than the lower part of that groove. moisture slowly may travel down the edge of that notch over time and begin to rust. (its a tiny notch, btw...about the width of my smallest pick) once that process starts, the rust swells and grows until it eventually works its way up to the bearing seal and due to the tight tolerances and spinning forces, works its way in past the seal.

just my theory based on what I saw when pulling the hubs apart.

I did salvage my axles and CV joints, refurbish all the brake and suspension parts and am about to put the car back together. its been a 3 week process!

incidentally, I broke 2 manual pullers, resorted to a 5 ton and then a 12 ton hydraulic puller. These alone would not budge the axle from the hub!.....the answer, 550 degrees of heat with MAP gas along with the 12 ton puller, liquid wrench (not WD40) ice cubes for the axle and CV joint (not realllllly needed) and practice.

The first axle took hours even days!....(started with propane and the wrong tools, as mentioned above, the right combo is key!)

The second axle took minutes. seriously, it took longer to get the puller in place alone (its a BIG puller) and strapped closed for safety than it did to crank it up and put the heat to it...

when you hear that first POP, its music to your ears!


I have pics if you guys are interested.

thanks for the good thoughts.

JP

Post some pics, I'm interested to see the hydraulic puller. I think key to preventing this is removing the nut then squirting oil down the splines when the car is elevated outward

[07lilredwagon]

Okay, here goes:

Right idea; wrong tools!...propane and an average puller simply are not enough for what had to be done. smashing the axle was avoided in this case as I just did not want to deform the axle threads, ect.....

I broke this puller 3 times. well, once with the original bolt in it, and twice more with replacement 5/8" bolts in it. (bent the 5/8" bolts!)



Go Big: a 12 ton hydraulic puller and MAP gas to the rescue. Propane was only getting me to 300 degrees or so....MAP gas to 550 in seconds...the axle did not even really heat up much...though I kept it cool with a bag of ice cubes on the cv housing....



Here you can see the size of the puller...and whats left of the bearing!



More to follow...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

Okay, here goes:

Right idea; wrong tools!...propane and an average puller simply are not enough for what had to be done. smashing the axle was avoided in this case as I just did not want to deform the axle threads, ect.....

I broke this puller 3 times. well, once with the original bolt in it, and twice more with replacement 5/8" bolts in it. (bent the 5/8" bolts!)



Go Big: a 12 ton hydraulic puller and MAP gas to the rescue. Propane was only getting me to 300 degrees or so....MAP gas to 550 in seconds...the axle did not even really heat up much...though I kept it cool with a bag of ice cubes on the cv housing....



Here you can see the size of the puller...and whats left of the bearing!



More to follow...

Did you buy the puller or rent it?

[07lilredwagon]

Once the bearing was out, I cleaned the hub knuckle and began attacking the subframe and anything rusty!....how did I let it get this bad?....anyway, it would be days later that I would finish cleaning that bloody subframe!

Its out; but it ain't pretty



The right tool again; Bearing puller kit. A universal kit from HF is actually quite nice. sturdy and heavy duty.....



Cleaning up the hub knuckle; the silver is galvanizing compound which I use as primer..then it got primed and painted



more later

JP

[07lilredwagon]

The hub was cleaned up, and painted. You can still see areas of the subframe and suspension that need serious cleaning...surprisingly, everything is still really tight...all the bushings and rubber stuff still in good shape...how, I dont know.....



210.00 worth of new wheel hubs...(front ones are only 45.00 each, of course)



Can it be saved?????: CV joints still tight and quiet. outer case, in rough shape.



after a little knot wheel work:



and some galvanizing primer, regular primer, silver paint, and some gold paint on the housings...black on the axle shafts....




backing plates next

JP

[07lilredwagon]

Parking brake backing plates: they were corroded and the paint was peeling...but not much rust. I think they are galvanized too....

before:



after: some primer, paint then bedliner material should do the trick



Wheel bearings going in! again, that universal tool is a godsend



Bearing and snap ring in place; its a big snap ring, too!...I heated and bend some long needle nosed pliers to make my own snap ring installation tool...worked great.



Backing plates in place:



Parking brake hardware refurbed and installed; * Hey, Efthreeoh, did I orient the lower adjuster part correctly?



Hub going back in: (universal tool worked great here too....the inner race is supported from behind as you press the hub in place)



ahhh...nice



JP

[07lilredwagon]

The axles: where do I start?..They have to be perfectly clean and free of rust for you to have even a slim chance of them fitting in far enough to catch the threads on the axle nut. it took several sessions of cleaning, and sanding and filing and polishing until I got them to fit again.....

The beginning: it does not look that bad....(grease and WD40 aside)



after a cleaning with wire wheel, sanding and an initial (shaped) file. Still more to go!



And after several sessions of fitting, cleaning, fitting, cleaning..... The pict does not do it justice, it looks much better than this...but this shows how much corrosion is really on there....its such a tight fit, precision fit, that any small amount of rust or deformation will make it nearly impossible to get the axles in far enough to get the nut started....



more in a bit

JP

[07lilredwagon]

Now to the fun part, and the question I started the thread with. Can and should you add an axle nut cover to the hub flange?....Im going to anyway. Guess what fits in there nicely? ( I have not checked that the wheel fits over it yet, but am hopeful. If it works, it will get a nice coating of grease inside to keep it clean of any corrosion...why fight with the rust monster down the road? )







Ill let you know how this turns out....a hub cap for the hub cap......

Hey, BMW, did you really save weight by not having these?....it is an issue. besides it looks bad in there.....we cannot have rusty wheel nuts...can we?

No one likes old rusty nuts.......



JP

[07lilredwagon]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Did you buy the puller or rent it?

I bought it and the universal bearing kit this time around. I figured with the money saved from going to an indy or dealership, I could afford the tools.

Im still building my arsenal of tools too....and Im sure Ill be coming across this again...(planning on a 5 series wagon soon)

JP

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

I bought it and the universal bearing kit this time around. I figured with the money saved from going to an indy or dealership, I could afford the tools.

Im still building my arsenal of tools too....and Im sure Ill be coming across this again...(planning on a 5 series wagon soon)

JP

Can you please point to where you got the tools from the universal bearing kit. I know you said HF but can you please provide a link. Really appreciate it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

I bought it and the universal bearing kit this time around. I figured with the money saved from going to an indy or dealership, I could afford the tools.

Im still building my arsenal of tools too....and Im sure Ill be coming across this again...(planning on a 5 series wagon soon)

JP

How much was the puller. It looks beefy as all get out. I ask because I used the sledge hammer method on my left axle and damaged the threads. I didn't really care that much as the axle was around $200 IIRC and the old one was 300,000+ old and had a rusting sensor ring that eventually was going to fail. I'm just trying to make a point that, based on mileage, buying the tool vs. just getting a new axle, is a decision point to be made.

I have to say swinging the living crap out of my 2-sledge hammer method was quite relaxing; it erased a lot of pent up anger.

[07lilredwagon]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can you please point to where you got the tools from the universal bearing kit. I know you said HF but can you please provide a link. Really appreciate it.

Harbor Freight Tools:

https://www.harborfreight.com/front-...ers-63728.html
item number 63728

check for coupons online....big savings.

JP

[07lilredwagon]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

How much was the puller. It looks beefy as all get out. I ask because I used the sledge hammer method on my left axle and damaged the threads. I didn't really care that much as the axle was around $200 IIRC and the old one was 300,000+ old and had a rusting sensor ring that eventually was going to fail. I'm just trying to make a point that, based on mileage, buying the tool vs. just getting a new axle, is a decision point to be made.

I have to say swinging the living crap out of my 2-sledge hammer method was quite relaxing; it erased a lot of pent up anger.

Oh, I hear ya!....with that first puller, I wailed the livin daylights out of it. I guess Im lucky it bent the bolts....I think your axle was from an E36....or thereabouts?...mine did not have a sense ring...but a magnet in the bearing.

The tool was right around 100.00, but I had bought the 5 ton puller for 80. Admittedly, I had to search around for a store that had the 12 ton puller in stock, but simply traded up with a coupon so the difference was 16.00.

One note of caution...I ended up putting a tie down strap around the jaws of the puller once it had tension on it. I used one of the friction jaw type pullers, and put just enough tension on it to keep it in place. I didnt want to twist the jaws with a ratchet type strap. As I began leaning against the lever arm, it took most of my weight to reach the pressure relief valve limit....I knew that if it did let go without the strap, the puller would jump off the hub....not ideal.

JP

[07lilredwagon]

Starting to look like a car again!....



I reinstalled the exhaust, lower brace, tunnel brace and touched up a few more rusty places....

A test of the parking brake and tightening of the wheel hub nuts should allow for a test drive......

I also refined the dust cover a bit and it fits nice and tight with no gaps.....


thanks for following along...

JP