[07lilredwagon]

So Im up against a rust-frozen rear wheel hub/axle issue...in fact, Im up against 2 of them....

Ill be trying to work that out with hydraulics and heat, but it seems to me that the outer hub/axle nut should not be exposed to the elements like it is. This seems to help lead to a problem that is becoming common, not just with our cars, but with many cars that dont need a wheel bearing until late into ownership.

Im pretty sure that older bimmers came with a dust cap over the hub. most cars did back in the day.

any mechanic/engineers out there to help answer my question?....should we be fitting a dust cover over that nut, or will it just seal in moisture....I mean, Im sure BMW had a reason for not fitting one...

-weight savings?
-penny pinching?
-would lead to a worse problem?

I can also tell that rust has worked its way in behind the hub where the axle/CV joint goes into the hub....

for reference, my 07 E91 has 192,000 miles on it. I was in the middle of doing my pre winter rust treatment on the undercarriage and checking things over, along with needing to do the wheel bearings...and am now stuck in the middle of what was supposed to be an enjoyable job!




JP

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by 07lilredwagon

So Im up against a rust-frozen rear wheel hub/axle issue...in fact, Im up against 2 of them....

Ill be trying to work that out with hydraulics and heat, but it seems to me that the outer hub/axle nut should not be exposed to the elements like it is. This seems to help lead to a problem that is becoming common, not just with our cars, but with many cars that dont need a wheel bearing until late into ownership.

Im pretty sure that older bimmers came with a dust cap over the hub. most cars did back in the day.

any mechanic/engineers out there to help answer my question?....should we be fitting a dust cover over that nut, or will it just seal in moisture....I mean, Im sure BMW had a reason for not fitting one...

-weight savings?
-penny pinching?
-would lead to a worse problem?

I can also tell that rust has worked its way in behind the hub where the axle/CV joint goes into the hub....

for reference, my 07 E91 has 192,000 miles on it. I was in the middle of doing my pre winter rust treatment on the undercarriage and checking things over, along with needing to do the wheel bearings...and am now stuck in the middle of what was supposed to be an enjoyable job!




JP

The only thing I can think of is find a SS bearing nut & use some anti-seize on the threads.

[Efthreeoh]

I've taken the rear axles out of 3 of the 4 BMW 3-series I've owned. The axles were removed at miles over 150,000 minimum and 15 years of age. None of my BMWs have had dust caps on the hubs, and that goes back to the E30. Only my '06 E90 had any corrosion issue with the splines in the hub. In fact the rust was so bad on my E90's left rear shaft, it grew the size of the speed sensor ring to the point it broke the surface of the speed sensor face. The corrosion issue comes from mosisture on the parts at assembly is my guess, or the moisture gets in the splines from the backside of the hub, not through the front side at the nut. From my readings here it seems the left rear hub is at issue for corrision to set in. Maybe it was a manufacting assembly situation. I don't think there is anyway to prevent the corrision problem at the hub splines.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

An air hammer or electric hammer will help a lot with getting the axles out. If you don't have these, a big fat sledge and a punch will do. A 3 or 4-jaw puller can also be very effective to press them out.

You'll really want an axle puller to get the axle back into the hub. The corrosion on the splines can make it very difficult to get back into place. Use some axle grease and clean them up as much as possible. Avoid hitting the CV joint housing to get it back into place, as the housing can crack.

There's not much you can do to keep the hub & splines from corroding over time. Moisture will find its way in eventually. Axle grease will help slow this process. The TIS recommends placing a film of oil on the face of the axle nut, though this is likely for reasons other than corrosion prevention.

[Pladi]

Penetrating oil and heat do miracles.
oil-torch-oil-torch will free anything.. One of those hammer pullers also works good. You need to be very patient though

[nsjames]

volvo once tried a rubber gasket on the washer that was under the bolt that holds the shaft into the hub. It was discontinued quickly when it was found to cause severe corrosion issues. The rubber washer was actually done to dampen the noise because P2 chassis are known for the shafts making a click when you go from reverse/forward.

the fix is to squirt the nut and shaft with some oil when you have the wheels off for any reason.

The reason older cars had dust caps is because they had exposed bearings riding on a spindle, and you had to keep the grease in there.
sealed bearings negated the need.

[vb7200]

Don't e90's have a 12 year corrosion warranty?

[nsjames]

lol.

it covered holes in the body. Not just rust, there has to be actual perforation.

BMW NA is going to laugh at you if you call them about your wheel bearing problems. They'll tell you it's no big deal if you have the correct tool.

[vb7200]

Corrosion is still corrosion, especially if it's preventing the car from functioning. It'd be worth looking into it, it can't hurt to try

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

An air hammer or electric hammer will help a lot with getting the axles out. If you don't have these, a big fat sledge and a punch will do. A 3 or 4-jaw puller can also be very effective to press them out.

You'll really want an axle puller to get the axle back into the hub. The corrosion on the splines can make it very difficult to get back into place. Use some axle grease and clean them up as much as possible. Avoid hitting the CV joint housing to get it back into place, as the housing can crack.

There's not much you can do to keep the hub & splines from corroding over time. Moisture will find its way in eventually. Axle grease will help slow this process. The TIS recommends placing a film of oil on the face of the axle nut, though this is likely for reasons other than corrosion prevention.

I used two 3-pound sledge hammers, one on the other, and a damned good swing.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by vb7200

Corrosion is still corrosion, especially if it's preventing the car from functioning. It'd be worth looking into it, it can't hurt to try

Come on man, read the rust warranty, it is specific to holes in the sheet metal of the body. There is no warranty for chassis parts. Rust inside the wheel hub on the splines does not keep the car from functioning. It would be silly to "look into".

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Come on man, read the rust warranty, it is specific to holes in the sheet metal of the body. There is no warranty for chassis parts. Rust inside the wheel hub on the splines does not keep the car from functioning. It would be silly to "look into".

this.

it's impossible to keep any kind of coating on the splined portion of the halfshaft.

rust will happen there. If it's not a structural problem it's not a corrosion problem.

It's not hard to get shafts out of bearings if yo uknow what you're doing.
In the last month I've done a complete rear carrier in a rust belt 06 ford explorer, and I've had both the front knuckles out of my wife's 04 volvo.

this isn't rocket science. It's a shaft in a hub, get aggressive. 5 minutes with some mapp gas and it will pop right out. Keep the temp below 350 if you're not replacing bearings/seals. Otherwise the easiest method is a large gear puller. Put tension on the shaft, smack the jack screw wit ha hammer.
The other option is always brute force, which is exactly how any mechanic getting paid flat rate will do it.

[mecheng77]

Can the axels be removed or even moved slightly to release any rust after the nut has been removed? Or do you need to remove part of the suspension?

If you can it might be a good idea to remove the nut and tap the axel, grease the splines and axel nut and reassemble as preventive maintenance

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Can the axels be removed or even moved slightly to release any rust after the nut has been removed? Or do you need to remove part of the suspension?

If you can it might be a good idea to remove the nut and tap the axel, grease the splines and axel nut and reassemble as preventive maintenance

There is no point. Axles are not really preventative maintenance items. The design of the hub spline and axle spline is it is an interference fit, which means the tolerances of the splines are so close there is a large amount of friction between the faces of the splines of each part (hub - female / axle - male). This is why it is so difficult to separate the parts, and it is designed that way to give a long life time of use and measure of safety so the parts do not separate during use.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

There is no point. Axles are not really preventative maintenance items. The design of the hub spline and axle spline is it is an interference fit, which means the tolerances of the splines are so close there is a large amount of friction between the faces of the splines of each part (hub - female / axle - male). This is why it is so difficult to separate the parts, and it is designed that way to give a long life time of use and measure of safety so the parts do not separate during use.

Do you mean slide fit, that is typically what most axels are, basically
Size on size or close to it so that at the factory they just slide in. Unless BMW axels need brute force to install?
I think once the corrosion sets in the axel grows and becomes interference.

I agree good German GKN axels are for life, but the bearings and boots are not so it would be good to lubricate, otherwise you can end up paying large for a new one or be tempted by the vibrating Chinese knock offs, (the ppl I know who’ve installed them regretted it even though they are insanely cheap)

I know typically there is play in the cv joint so I believe without removing any suspension it can move a bit, not sure on this car? Anybody know? I will try it when I change my winter tires, using a brass punch so I don’t damage the shaft. If it moves a bit, it should be enough to unfreeze it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Do you mean slide fit, that is typically what most axels are, basically
Size on size or close to it so that at the factory they just slide in. Unless BMW axels need brute force to install?
I think once the corrosion sets in the axel grows and becomes interference.

I agree good German GKN axels are for life, but the bearings and boots are not so it would be good to lubricate, otherwise you can end up paying large for a new one or be tempted by the vibrating Chinese knock offs, (the ppl I know who’ve installed them regretted it even though they are insanely cheap)

I know typically there is play in the cv joint so I believe without removing any suspension it can move a bit, not sure on this car? Anybody know? I will try it when I change my winter tires, using a brass punch so I don’t damage the shaft. If it moves a bit, it should be enough to unfreeze it.

The axle needs to be pushed into the hub until there is enough of the thread available to thread the nut squarely on the shaft end. Then you use the nut to pull the axle into the hub to fully seat it. There is a slide hammer tool that can grab the thread and help pull the end of the axle into the hub. In engineering parlance there are several "classes" of part fitments pertaing to the tolerances between the mating parts. An interference fit is used when it is desired to have the parts stay together once assembled. Sealed bearings are one such example. There are varying degrees of interference fits.

Axles are made from very hard, heat treated steel. A brass punch will just deform like butter. The only way the shaft comes out is by removing the inner CV joint from the diff drive flange and dropping the inboard part of the axle down so the axle can slide out of the hub. Trust me on this, it is very difficult to remove the axles from the hub. The only way to do it without damage is with either hydraulic or jackscrew tools, such as a large puller. There are special tools that bolt to the hub that push the shaft out with a hydraulic ram or jackscrew. The E90 axles have no center point on the shaft end, which makes using certian pullers difficult.

Unless you need to remove the axle for repairs, just leave it alone.

[nsjames]

if you do not own a large gear puller, or are worried about it slipping off/damaging the flange.

https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-430.../dp/B00VX0S7YW

that's what you want. Bolt it to the WMS, apply torque. I generally use an impact because ugga dugga.
When you think it's about to break, stop, then whack the end of the jack screw with a steel hammer. The shaft will pop.

You can also rent them at autozone, or whatever local chain store near you.

edit:
and buy bolts instead of using your lug bolts. otherwise you risk damaging the conical seat on them. flanged bolts work the best.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by nsjames

if you do not own a large gear puller, or are worried about it slipping off/damaging the flange.

https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-430.../dp/B00VX0S7YW

that's what you want. Bolt it to the WMS, apply torque. I generally use an impact because ugga dugga.
When you think it's about to break, stop, then whack the end of the jack screw with a steel hammer. The shaft will pop.

You can also rent them at autozone, or whatever local chain store near you.

edit:
and buy bolts instead of using your lug bolts. otherwise you risk damaging the conical seat on them. flanged bolts work the best.

Thanks for the link. Just ordered it.

[mecheng77]

This will do the same job for less

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FDMWE0..._ByFWBbVRANSYJ

[Efthreeoh]

Wheel bolt thread size is M12x1.5 if you are getting bolts to thread into the hub....

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Wheel bolt thread size is M12x1.5 if you are getting bolts to thread into the hub....

Isn’t it m12x1.75

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Isn’t it m12x1.75

Nope: