[JETmn]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Lol this is just retarded. You clearly understand how turbos work.

Are you implying the turbo somehow affects the intake? I think you might want to point your comment back at yourself. All the intake does is flow air in to the engine, there is no difference if it is NA or turbo.

His statement is valid *IF* he can prove the aftermarket filter is not providing adequate protection and that the stock intake is not causing much of a restriction (which we know to be true for the stock turbo).

I would like to see one of the 550whp guys switch from stock intake to an aftermarket and see if there is much of a difference. We know there isn't under 400whp.

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Lol this is just retarded. You clearly understand how turbos work.

Oh please guru then please explain this to me. Please tell me how a high flow filter does a better job of filtering the dirt, sand, etc that your turbo is ingesting.

As for performance gains, well that data is here already but I would love to hear you explain how an aftermarket hot air intake is better than the stock intake that draws in ambient air.

Not to mention MAF concerns and I have plenty of experience with custom turbo kits and MAF tuning.

[weehe126]

There is always a benefit when removing a restriction preturbo, way more than any NA engine. Stock filter is garbage, I actually felt a difference when I switched to the K&N drop in (stock filter was only a month old). To state that upgrading your intake or filter only increases how much dirt that gets by it is retarded. What dirt is possibly getting by these filters, dust, pollin? Real detrimental.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

Oh please guru then please explain this to me. Please tell me how a high flow filter does a better job of filtering the dirt, sand, etc that your turbo is ingesting.

As for performance gains, well that data is here already but I would love to hear you explain how an aftermarket hot air intake is better than the stock intake that draws in ambient air.

Not to mention MAF concerns and I have plenty of experience with custom turbo kits and MAF tuning.

To clarify, every high flow filter on the market is inferior compared to a stock paper filter?

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Are you implying the turbo somehow affects the intake? I think you might want to point your comment back at yourself. All the intake does is flow air in to the engine, there is no difference if it is NA or turbo.

His statement is valid *IF* he can prove the aftermarket filter is not providing adequate protection and that the stock intake is not causing much of a restriction (which we know to be true for the stock turbo).

I would like to see one of the 550whp guys switch from stock intake to an aftermarket and see if there is much of a difference. We know there isn't under 400whp.

And yes, I agree that there is a point that a custom intake is a necessity.

People looking to make that kind of power don't start discussions about bolt on intakes so I think I am safe is assuming the OP is looking to stay at near stock HP levels.

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

To clarify, every high flow filter on the market is inferior compared to a stock paper filter?

In terms of its ability to filter particulates well? Yes.

For example the 20B (3 rotor 500HP NA) Rolex RX-8 race cars run OEM paper filters because they were often finding sand in their oil pans when running in places like Florida, Cali, etc.

Examples:

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

In terms of its ability to filter particulates well? Yes.

For example the 20B (3 rotor 500HP NA) Rolex RX-8 race cars run OEM paper filters because they were often finding sand in their oil pans when running in places like Florida, Cali, etc.

Examples:

May I ask which filters they were using when they found sand?

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

May I ask which filters they were using when they found sand?

Different brands, I have seen some that appear to be K&N, Green Filter, etc.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

Different brands, I have seen some that appear to be K&N, Green Filter, etc.

Is there any 3rd party testing by any chance?

I know companies like AFE make specific type of filters for different applications.

For example, they have specific for off road, where it may see more dust or dirt.

Where as K&N is primarily focused on street vehicles / Race applications and is supposed to meet or exceed the OEM standard specification for filtration. They also conduct their own testing in their facility.

Just as an example:

http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif

http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif

I'm wondering if those other filters may not have been fitting well, possibly causing a leakage where the medium wasn't actually contacting the filter.

At any rate, I guess if people are driving in extreme conditions of dust or sand, they should think otherwise. But I do know plenty of guys in the off road scene that had no problems with their actual vehicles to date because of filtration on a K&N, for example.

For a race car with a fairly exposed intake, I could see there being a larger demand for a high filtration intake.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

To add, here is the SAE standard for testing air filters, done by K&N.

The testing procedure used is SAE J-726 using ISO Test Dust. This test is the standard of the air filter industry. The test procedure consists of flowing air through the filter at a constant rate (airflow rate is determined by the application) while feeding test dust into the air stream at a rate of 1 gram per cubic meter of air. As the filter loads with dust the pressure drop across the filter is increased to maintain the prescribed airflow rate. The test is continued until the pressure drop increases 10" H2O above the initial restriction of the clean element (in this case .78" to 10.78" H2O). At this point the test is terminated. The dirty filter element is then weighed. This weight is compared to the clean element weight to determine the total Dust Capacity. The amount of dust retained by the filter is divided by the total amount of dust fed during the test to determine the Cumulative Efficiency.

[9krpmrx8]

There are plenty of independent filter tests out there, I would never trust anything from the manufacturers or the people selling them. And of course most won't have an issue with engine damage due to the increased ingestion of debris and it surely does matter where you live and what debris your car may ingest, even factory schedules advise you to change your air filter more often if you live in a harsh environment.

But if there is no performance gain then adding a filter that doesn't filter well seems dumb to me. Personally I do my best to keep dirt out of my engine.

But I get people wanting the cool sound that an aftermarket intake typically gives, especially on a turbo car. But they should be aware that some intakes can screw with the MAF scaling due to not being the same size as the OEM and this is where complaints about rough idle, etc come from and they should know that they will not be getting the best filtration available to them in the stock intake.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

There are plenty of independent filter tests out there, I would never trust anything from the manufacturers or the people selling them. And of course most won't have an issue with engine damage due to the increased ingestion of debris and it surely does matter where you live and what debris your car may ingest, even factory schedules advise you to change your air filter more often if you live in a harsh environment.

But if there is no performance gain then adding a filter that doesn't filter well seems dumb to me. Personally I do my best to keep dirt out of my engine.

But I get people wanting the cool sound that an aftermarket intake typically gives, especially on a turbo car. But they should be aware that some intakes can screw with the MAF scaling due to not being the same size as the OEM and this is where complaints about rough idle, etc come from and they should know that they will not be getting the best filtration available to them in the stock intake.

With a MAF car tuning is important, especially when changing the filter or intake side of things.

I'm personally a fan of quality aftermarket intakes / filters but it's not something worth going back and forth on. You have your reasons to stay with what you like and I can't say I necessarily disagree with your reasoning. Different strokes for different folks, I say.

[AtlasM]

You're using rotary engines as an example of grit from the intake making its way into the oil, but rotary engines have a lot more oil going into and out of the combustion chambers than piston engines. Generally speaking the oil in a rotary is going to collect a bunch more crap in it than a piston engine. It's not a proper comparison.

Let's simplify this.

On our cars, an intake is not going to make a massive improvement in power. Maybe 5 hp, if that, and some fun whooshy whistly turbo noises. If that's what somebody wants, it's not going to kill their motor. If you want to run a paper filter, go ahead, it's not a big deal either way.

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by AtlasM

You're using rotary engines as an example of grit from the intake making its way into the oil, but rotary engines have a lot more oil going into and out of the combustion chambers than piston engines. Generally speaking the oil in a rotary is going to collect a bunch more crap in it than a piston engine. It's not a proper comparison.

Let's simplify this.

On our cars, an intake is not going to make a massive improvement in power. Maybe 5 hp, if that, and some fun whooshy whistly turbo noises. If that's what somebody wants, it's not going to kill their motor. If you want to run a paper filter, go ahead, it's not a big deal either way.

Well in a stock factory rotary, yes, most rotary race engines do not use an oil metering system, the premix is added to the fuel. Mine uses an adapter that injects clean 2 stroke oil from a reservoir, it doesn't use the oil from the sump. Either way sand in any engine is not good.

But yes, running an aftermarket filter is not going to grenade your engine. As stated, it comes down to a personal choice.

[philgli]

I think the OP acknowledged the minimal performance gains and was looking for "loudest". So, from that perspective, it was already answered right?

[johnson47376]

Originally Posted by Lrutkowski

I know an intake is not going to give me any noticeable gains and I honestly didn't care about that, just wanted the loudest sound/ spool & it to sound like a bov and from watching videos it seemed like the Injen sounded the best and loudest? Like a $100 does not make a difference to me and I install everything myself so Im not worried about that just the loudest best sounding intake.

I was recently contacted by a company called MDesign Performance and they appear to have designed an "injen-style" intake but it looks soooo much better. It's all carbon fiber , It looks Dinan without the Dinan price. Check it out, definitely worth a look and they have some interesting claims as well

[TZANIDO777]

There is also racing dynamics carbon fiber cai which looks like a copy of the gruppe m cai for a third of the price. Still expensive for an intake but looks like a nice option.

http://www.racdyn-usa.com/PROD/142+52+87+102.html

[princelybug]

Originally Posted by TZANIDO777

There is also racing dynamics carbon fiber cai which looks like a copy of the gruppe m cai for a third of the price. Still expensive for an intake but looks like a nice option.

http://www.racdyn-usa.com/PROD/142+52+87+102.html

Almost passed out at the $975.00 asking price!

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by johnson47376

I was recently contacted by a company called MDesign Performance and they appear to have designed an "injen-style" intake but it looks soooo much better. It's all carbon fiber , It looks Dinan without the Dinan price. Check it out, definitely worth a look and they have some interesting claims as well

Looks like an interesting option. I wish they had a better pic and more info on their website. You can't even see it hardly. Price isn't bad at $348 right now with free shipping.

[tke344]

Yeah that does look pretty good, surprised it's never been advertised on the forum.

[aaron_]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

With a MAF car tuning is important, especially when changing the filter or intake side of things.

I'm personally a fan of quality aftermarket intakes / filters but it's not something worth going back and forth on. You have your reasons to stay with what you like and I can't say I necessarily disagree with your reasoning. Different strokes for different folks, I say.

Jeff, I get error codes about air mass and flow rate with the afe sealed magnumforce si oiled CAI. would a custom mhd flash remove this error? I've gone back to stock and have no errors.

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by aaron_

Jeff, I get error codes about air mass and flow rate with the afe sealed magnumforce si oiled CAI. would a custom mhd flash remove this error? I've gone back to stock and have no errors.

On a MAF car, the MAF sensor is scaled based on the stock intake dimensions. This is very precise and if the aftermarket intakes are off by even a slight difference in their dimensions, you can have issues. A custom tuner can rescale the MAF but I am not sure if those tables are available on all tuning platforms for the 335i but I would guess that they are. I use a Cobb to tune my MAF fitted turbo RX-8. When I created my own intake using 3.5" pipe and a honeycomb air straightener, I had to rescale it several times before I got it perfect since I was making changes to the intake setup before I got it right where I wanted it.