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      01-25-2006, 08:00 PM   #1
lux.sh
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Check this out. How sad this is.

Ok, European car makes(all of them) need to learn how to make a reliable vehicle.



At least our BMW is doing well compared to other european manufacturers.

Funny points:
1. Only Porsche and BMW is above industry average.
2. Our BMWs are right above FORD.
3. Audi is right above DAEWOO!!
4. Chrysler is doing fine, but why is Mercedes-Benz having so much trouble?
5. Mini is just as bad as Kia. (mini = bmw)
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      01-25-2006, 08:05 PM   #2
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When they say "problems" are they strictly referring to powertrain and/or suspension components?

Because if "reliability problems" also include squeaky doors, squeaky windows and trims, software updates, flat tires, electronic glitches, DRL's aren't on, brake dust, or any other minor problem, this study is thrown out of whack.

Why Porsche has little problems? Perhaps the people who are rich enough to afford Porsches and/or Lexuses (who by coincidence are also more mature/older) know how to take care of their vehicles and/or get really great, preventative service/checkups.
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      01-25-2006, 08:15 PM   #3
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Its a reliability report. Its not about porsche guys doing well with maintenance.
Its when unexpected manufacturer defect appears.
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      01-25-2006, 09:10 PM   #4
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      01-25-2006, 10:01 PM   #5
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      01-25-2006, 10:22 PM   #6
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Land Rover beat Kia. I can sleep at night now. I purposely didn't answer the JDP survey after the 6th or 7th trip back to the dealer [with LR3] in the first 3 months of ownership.
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      01-25-2006, 10:44 PM   #7
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Hey thanks for the great info

I'm actually surprised cadillac is so far up on the list. My dad's 02 caddy shorted itself out a few weeks ago and had to be towed to the dealer, and my grandfather's 02 caddy stalls all the time

Cadillac must have made some major changes in the last three years

Anyway, these figures aren't surprising. Lexus is right where it has been for a while. I'm a little surprised at Mini, and I'm actually surprised Chrysler, Ford, and Chevrolet are as high on the list as they are.
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      01-25-2006, 10:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp1183
Hey thanks for the great info

I'm actually surprised cadillac is so far up on the list. My dad's 02 caddy shorted itself out a few weeks ago and had to be towed to the dealer, and my grandfather's 02 caddy stalls all the time

Cadillac must have made some major changes in the last three years

Anyway, these figures aren't surprising. Lexus is right where it has been for a while. I'm a little surprised at Mini, and I'm actually surprised Chrysler, Ford, and Chevrolet are as high on the list as they are.
Well said, I feel the same as you.

I am surprised how cadillac is up there. Though about Mini/Ford, I wasn't surprised. I browse all kinds of forums, and I've been hearing how ford's reliability is getting better and better since awhile ago. As for Mini, i've heard about its reliability before, and actually experienced it myself with my girlfriend's mini cooper.

I am still a bit "relaxed" that BMWs are doing better than most european manufacturers. I wouldn't rely 100% on that reliability report, its just 2005 if I remember correctly. Maybe chevy was just lucky enough to produce all reliable cars this year. Who knows what they will become next year.

Before I bought my bmw, I've heard nothing but bad things about BMW reliability(especially electrical). So I actually felt better after looking at that report.
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      01-25-2006, 11:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Before I bought my bmw, I've heard nothing but bad things about BMW reliability(especially electrical). So I actually felt better after looking at that report.
Ha ha ha ha!!! Me too! Sheesh! Word gets around quick with BMW's reliability. But, in the end I said screw it and went for the bimmer anyway. Seeing this report makes me feel even better, now!
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      01-25-2006, 11:12 PM   #10
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Porsche is #2.
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      01-25-2006, 11:49 PM   #11
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^ mind sharing why you are happy about that?
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      01-25-2006, 11:50 PM   #12
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I never did understand what they defined as a "problem" in these surveys. If I'm reading it right, there are (on average) 139 problems per 100 cars even for the best car maker on the list... That says that, odds are, EVERY car ever made by the BEST manufacture will have one of these "problems" in the first year, and the worst will have 3!!
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      01-25-2006, 11:56 PM   #13
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That's very interesting. I've read from a couple of sources that the Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg have terrible quality ratings (I believe this was Consumers Reports). The Lincoln Navigator also had very poor reliability ratings. Yet, this particular brand ranking evaluation paints a different picture.

Another factor to consider is that BMW will often employ cutting edge technologies (e.g., active steering, active cruise control, DSC) that are relatively new. With this may also come a few unforeseen kinks that need to be fine tuned. The simpler a vehicle is, the more reliable it will be. Complexity increases the risk of potential problems.
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      01-26-2006, 12:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksfrogman
Another factor to consider is that BMW will often employ cutting edge technologies (e.g., active steering, active cruise control, DSC) that are relatively new. With this may also come a few unforeseen kinks that need to be fine tuned. The simpler a vehicle is, the more reliable it will be. Complexity increases the risk of potential problems.
This is what confuses me the most. I mean, there are innovative and progressive car makers out there and you'd expect cars made by them to have more bugs--that's the price you pay for more technology and convenience, I suppose.

But what about companies like GM, that have been producing practically the same car for 10+ years now, and only change the exterior styling?
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      01-26-2006, 01:25 AM   #15
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these jd power reviews are based on ALL complaints, including silly little electronic things. People who spend 40K on a car expect it to not squeak. when it does they complain. People who spend 15K on a car expect it to squeak... and their just happy if the damn thing starts.
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      01-26-2006, 01:32 AM   #16
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http://www.lexus.com/about/history/index.html

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      01-26-2006, 01:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Yeah, regardless of what I think about the new IS, I've always liked Lexus. They're (lexus, toyota) a great automaker
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      01-26-2006, 03:16 AM   #18
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      01-26-2006, 11:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladinecko
it's below BUICK??? i'm ashamed!

I'm not, most buick owners are so deep into alzheimers disease that they have know idea if they're having problems or not.

Belive it or not, 8% of buick owners actually have a movement in their adult diapers at any given time on the road.
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      01-26-2006, 10:19 PM   #20
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what is a buick? must be an american car!
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      01-26-2006, 10:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
Belive it or not, 8% of buick owners actually have a movement in their adult diapers at any given time on the road.


Where can one find this statistical information--this "cars most pooped in" survey?

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      01-26-2006, 11:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
I'm not, most buick owners are so deep into alzheimers disease that they have know idea if they're having problems or not.

Belive it or not, 8% of buick owners actually have a movement in their adult diapers at any given time on the road.

that's a good one!
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