Wipers; no function; been searching threads, no joy

3srsntswngr · 07-08-2019, 02:33 PM

Wipers just won’t turn on. Washer motor functions. Fuses look good. Relay clicks. About to check motor for power

I don’t know if the relay (the green one) could be clicking but still malfunctioning. Also concerned because someone else had power at the motor but no function and they swapped the motor (logically) to discover it was something else. Sounds weird, but they do weird things with auto sensors and brake drying so who knows

Thanks
2008 328xi

ppointer · 07-08-2019, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3srsntswngr

Wipers just won’t turn on. Washer motor functions. Fuses look good. Relay clicks. About to check motor for power

I don’t know if the relay (the green one) could be clicking but still malfunctioning. Also concerned because someone else had power at the motor but no function and they swapped the motor (logically) to discover it was something else. Sounds weird, but they do weird things with auto sensors and brake drying so who knows

Thanks
2008 328xi

My symptom was jumpy actuation. With 126k miles on my '09 e91, I was fairly certain the motor was getting worn out. Installed this last weekend and the symptoms are gone:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...or-61617161711

Took about an hour or so.

3srsntswngr · 07-09-2019, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppointer

My symptom was jumpy actuation. With 126k miles on my '09 e91, I was fairly certain the motor was getting worn out. Installed this last weekend and the symptoms are gone:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...or-61617161711

Took about an hour or so.

Thanks. Good to know. You didn’t do any testing? Mine are just doa. Worked one day, didn’t the next. Seemed fine, bout 140k mi

RL325xi · 07-09-2019, 05:15 PM

the relay may be your problem

dpaul · 07-09-2019, 07:30 PM

To directly answer your question, yes, a relay that clicks can still be malfunctioning. Pretty easy to test with a multimeter and a source of 12V power (battery) as is the wiper motor itself.

Check out wiring diagrams here:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/upOxh9C

I'm usually in favor of testing components where possible rather than guessing about replacement. But in this case, the relay is only about $16 and a new washer motor (without linkage) is about $56 at Rock Auto or equivalent (a lot less than the $420 that FCP wants for a new OEM motor/linkage assembly).

nsjames · 07-09-2019, 08:35 PM

a powerprobe is possibly one of the greatest electrical diagnostic tools I ever added to my toolbox.

look into it.
Makes it dumb easy to diagnose things like this. Jab it into the relay load terminal and apply 12V to the motor right there and see if it turns on.

3srsntswngr · 07-09-2019, 09:33 PM

Thanks for the useful responses. Was planning to try the new relay. I saw a link to the Napa part somewhere in my forum searches. I’ll try to remember to report anything worthwhile

Good idea on the power probing

dpaul · 07-09-2019, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsjames

a powerprobe is possibly one of the greatest electrical diagnostic tools I ever added to my toolbox.

look into it.
Makes it dumb easy to diagnose things like this. Jab it into the relay load terminal and apply 12V to the motor right there and see if it turns on.

Got a link for this?

nsjames · 07-10-2019, 03:04 PM

https://www.powerprobe.com/

doru · 07-11-2019, 11:14 AM

Here is an old post on an older model BMW. It might help. Those cars preserve the basics throughout many years, just cosmetically enhanced.

3srsntswngr · 07-11-2019, 12:14 PM

Dewalt battery (low voltage), speaker wire, aligator clips:

power probe

Anyone got the napa part number that replaces the bmer relay? cant find it

dpaul · 07-11-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3srsntswngr

Dewalt battery (low voltage), speaker wire, aligator clips:

power probe

Anyone got the napa part number that replaces the bmer relay? cant find it

MIGHT BE
ECH AR6250
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHAR6250

3srsntswngr · 07-12-2019, 05:17 PM

Can any one confirm which relay terminals to jump to fire the wipers? 3-5?

I tried that with ignition on and nothing. Trying to rule out the relay

nsjames · 07-13-2019, 01:02 PM

does the relay have numbers on the bottom or a diagram?
you want to connect 87 and 30.

3srsntswngr · 07-14-2019, 07:27 PM

It’s a diagram with numbers 1-5

It would appear that 1 and 2 are the switch leads that pull the number 3 lead from 4 to 5 when 1 and 2 are energized

3srsntswngr · 07-14-2019, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsjames

does the relay have numbers on the bottom or a diagram?
you want to connect 87 and 30.

I don’t see 30 and 87. Is that labeled on the wiring diagram from dpaul?

nsjames · 07-14-2019, 08:24 PM

probably not.
that's generic relay terminal markings.
sometimes you get lucky and don't have to go find a diagram.

gbalthrop · 07-15-2019, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3srsntswngr

Wipers just won’t turn on. Washer motor functions. Fuses look good. Relay clicks. About to check motor for power.
I don’t know if the relay (the green one) could be clicking but still malfunctioning. 2008 328xi

TIS Wiper circuit diagram (relays K36 & K37):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/upOxh9C

Fuse F50 (1st thing to check ;-) Installation Location (beneath relays):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnYh5CO3E

Relays K36 & K37 Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnYuo3ZrW

Automotive Relay Pin Configuration with Pins 87 & 87a (5-pin). NOTE the 85 & 86 electromagnet pins are parallel & opposed to each other and pins 30 (battery) & 87 (contacts closed output) are perpendicular to each other:
https://www.delcity.net/documents/au...ay_diagram.jsp

Please let us know what you find,
George

3srsntswngr · 07-15-2019, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

TIS Wiper circuit diagram (relays K36 & K37):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/upOxh9C

Fuse F50 (1st thing to check ;-) Installation Location (beneath relays):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnYh5CO3E

Relays K36 & K37 Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnYuo3ZrW

Automotive Relay Pin Configuration with Pins 87 & 87a (5-pin). NOTE the 85 & 86 electromagnet pins are parallel & opposed to each other and pins 30 (battery) & 87 (contacts closed output) are perpendicular to each other:
https://www.delcity.net/documents/au...ay_diagram.jsp

Please let us know what you find,
George

Thank you, I’ll try to decipher these and test some things out

3srsntswngr · 07-15-2019, 07:34 PM

Jumped what I believe to be pin 30(3) to 87a(5). Should have turned on the wiper motor I think, no? I tried 87(4) also.

Fuses were checked first thing

Bad motor? Short? The switch and relay should be bypassed by the jump?

07-08-2019, 02:33 PM	#1
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Wipers; no function; been searching threads, no joy Wipers just won’t turn on. Washer motor functions. Fuses look good. Relay clicks. About to check motor for power I don’t know if the relay (the green one) could be clicking but still malfunctioning. Also concerned because someone else had power at the motor but no function and they swapped the motor (logically) to discover it was something else. Sounds weird, but they do weird things with auto sensors and brake drying so who knows Thanks 2008 328xi Last edited by 3srsntswngr; 07-08-2019 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: Gramar
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07-09-2019, 05:15 PM	#4
RL325xi Private 29 Rep 88 Posts Drives: 2006 e91 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	the relay may be your problem
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07-09-2019, 07:30 PM	#5
dpaul Lieutenant Colonel 654 Rep 1,893 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Boston iTrader: (3)	To directly answer your question, yes, a relay that clicks can still be malfunctioning. Pretty easy to test with a multimeter and a source of 12V power (battery) as is the wiper motor itself. Check out wiring diagrams here: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/upOxh9C I'm usually in favor of testing components where possible rather than guessing about replacement. But in this case, the relay is only about $16 and a new washer motor (without linkage) is about $56 at Rock Auto or equivalent (a lot less than the $420 that FCP wants for a new OEM motor/linkage assembly).
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07-09-2019, 08:35 PM	#6
nsjames Brigadier General 2440 Rep 4,330 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	a powerprobe is possibly one of the greatest electrical diagnostic tools I ever added to my toolbox. look into it. Makes it dumb easy to diagnose things like this. Jab it into the relay load terminal and apply 12V to the motor right there and see if it turns on.
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07-09-2019, 09:33 PM	#7
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the useful responses. Was planning to try the new relay. I saw a link to the Napa part somewhere in my forum searches. I’ll try to remember to report anything worthwhile Good idea on the power probing
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07-10-2019, 03:04 PM	#9
nsjames Brigadier General 2440 Rep 4,330 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	https://www.powerprobe.com/
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07-11-2019, 11:14 AM	#10
doru Lieutenant 126 Rep 482 Posts Drives: e92, f25, e46, e83 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Here is an old post on an older model BMW. It might help. Those cars preserve the basics throughout many years, just cosmetically enhanced. __________________ Stable: e92is f25 N52 e83 N52 e46ci M54B25 (e53 N62 - sold, R.I.P. e39 M54B30)
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07-11-2019, 12:14 PM	#11
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Dewalt battery (low voltage), speaker wire, aligator clips: power probe Anyone got the napa part number that replaces the bmer relay? cant find it
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07-12-2019, 05:17 PM	#13
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Can any one confirm which relay terminals to jump to fire the wipers? 3-5? I tried that with ignition on and nothing. Trying to rule out the relay
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07-13-2019, 01:02 PM	#14
nsjames Brigadier General 2440 Rep 4,330 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	does the relay have numbers on the bottom or a diagram? you want to connect 87 and 30.
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07-14-2019, 07:27 PM	#15
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	It’s a diagram with numbers 1-5 It would appear that 1 and 2 are the switch leads that pull the number 3 lead from 4 to 5 when 1 and 2 are energized
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07-14-2019, 08:24 PM	#17
nsjames Brigadier General 2440 Rep 4,330 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	probably not. that's generic relay terminal markings. sometimes you get lucky and don't have to go find a diagram.
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07-15-2019, 07:34 PM	#20
3srsntswngr Private 5 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 08 beige 328xi Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Jumped what I believe to be pin 30(3) to 87a(5). Should have turned on the wiper motor I think, no? I tried 87(4) also. Fuses were checked first thing Bad motor? Short? The switch and relay should be bypassed by the jump?
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