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[mr p-j]

if you are worried about gas mile. buy a diesel!

[Kroy]

You'll be fine with snow tires and no x drive. if you lived in heavy snow area where it snows more than a couple days a year, you might want x drive. otherwise i think you'll be fine. also, AWD with all seasons < RWD with snow tires.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by Kroy

also, AWD with all seasons < RWD with snow tires.

That's incorrect. Having driven both extensively, I can vouch. Take it from a life-long driving Bostonian. I'd take AWD with A/S tires over RWD with snows ANY DAY.

dR

[Kroy]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

That's incorrect. Having driven both extensively, I can vouch. Take it from a life-long driving Bostonian. I'd take AWD with A/S tires over RWD with snows ANY DAY.

dR

you may well be right. *shrug*

how are weather conditions up where you live anyways? sounds like you go through a lot of snow every year.

also not sure how much snow OP gets. I live in Cali so this isn't something I worry about.

[AWD Addict]

Varies widely depending on proximity to coast and elevation, but we get snow from late november to late february.

The first part of your post I'd agree with. If there's only a couple snows a year, save your money (and gas mileage, which i understand is better on the i?). Depending on temperatures (get below 50?), you may not even want to swap off the summers.

Easton PA is steel country i think (near Allentown and Bethlehem?) I think they get some good snow out there.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by mr p-j

if you are worried about gas mile. buy a diesel!

It's funny, everybody worries about gas mileage with AWD. For some reason, every BMW I've ever had (including my E46M3 but excluding my M6) has averaged 24 mpg mixed driving.

I was a little worried about my '11 335 x-drive, but it's the same 24MPG as my '07 328-xi on my same daily commute.

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Comparing an SUV to a regular passenger car is kind of silly. The center of gravity differences totally destroy a comparable situation on tire contact and stability in a loss-of-control situation. For an honest comparison, how many subarus do you see in a ditch? SUVs are in ditches for different reasons than their AWD.

As for whether someone "needs" an AWD automobile, that's kind of a silly statement. The comparison is what format is best for inclement weather, and the answer is unequivocably AWD > FWD > RWD.

A skilled driver knows the difference. It's not about a false sense of security, it's about good drivers knowing the capability ceilings of each format, and clearly, apples to apples (meaning largely tires are equal in each test), AWD is far superior.

Can you get to the grocery store in RWD with summers while it's snowing, sure. Is it a pain in the ass and less safe? Yes. The "just fine" argument is where this lands every time. Many of us are looking for a ride in our $50,000 vehicle that surpasses "just fine."

We'll have to agree to disagree. I live in a suburb of Rochester NY and I live next to Lake Ontario...I know what snow is like to drive in. (We average 9 feet a year.)

As I mentioned, I've had all types of vehicles including SUV's. My RWD cars with snows do as good as anything else I've driven.

***EDIT***

I should quantify; my RWD cars with snows do as good as any SUV or AWD car I've driven with all seasons.

[rteichman]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Easton PA is steel country i think (near Allentown and Bethlehem?) I think they get some good snow out there.

I need to update my profile. I moved to Philadelphia a few years ago. It's 60 miles south and closer to the cost. As such it has a milder climate. We only get a few snow storms a year. In the five years (other than last year) I had no need for the AWD or FWD as we had almost no snow. Last year I needed an SUV as xDrive BMWs did not have the road clearance to get through the unplowed side streets in South Philly. That was 2 days out of the whole year.

[chowser51]

Originally Posted by mr p-j

if you are worried about gas mile. buy a diesel!

Tell BMW to import a 335d x-drive and I'm all over it. Mileage sucks in my 325xi, but with AWD and snow tires, I haven't gotten stuck anywhere yet. My brother gets much better mileage in his 330i. I missed a 330xi by a few hours at the dealership.
Not buying another BMW unless it's a 335d x-drive.
or 535d x-drive.

C'mon BMW, bring them over to the states!

[PeteW84]

There's no need of awd or suv, just get yourself some dedicated winter tires.

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by Pete84

There's no need of awd or suv, just get yourself some dedicated winter tires.

Exactly.

[ceb]

Very few SUV drivers consider their tires and assume that their AWD will take care of the problem.

An x-drive with snow tires will run rings around the standard SUV with all season tires assuming that you don't have clearance issues.

A two wheel drive with snows should do fine in most conditions. Can we guarantee it with your hill? Of course not, but it'll do much better than the all seasons.

[easyman]

for the 360 days those of us in the big cities don't have snow RWD is king(more enjoyable drive, better MPG, cheaper). For the few days a year we do get snow, snow tires should do.

Obviously AWD + Snow tires are king.

But given the choice between AWD and All Seasons or RWD with snows I'd chose the RWD with snows any day of the week. I figure it may be a bit harder to get going with RWD but I'd rather be stationary then slide off the road at speed because my tires lost traction. I had a 330i for 5 years with many trips North to Snowboard and through several heavy snow storms. In 5 years I only slid off the road once, the road was a sheet of ice, and got stuck once, in deep snow.

AWD would have helped that one time I was stuck in deep snow.. but for the rest of the year my car was much more enjoyable to drive than its AWD counterpart.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by wrickem

It's funny, everybody worries about gas mileage with AWD. For some reason, every BMW I've ever had (including my E46M3 but excluding my M6) has averaged 24 mpg mixed driving.

I was a little worried about my '11 335 x-drive, but it's the same 24MPG as my '07 328-xi on my same daily commute.

I'm lighter. 30-40% city driving, 20mpg

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by chrispitude

I agree 100%.

I've owned FWD, RWD, and AWD cars and trucks with all-seasons, snows, and all-terrains. A RWD car with snow tires will brake and steer well, but you WILL have challenges going up hills. If you live on flat streets and you can make RWD+snows work for you, that's great. If you live out in hilly countryside, you will eventually figure this out for yourself - just hopefully not the hard way.

I put studless Blizzaks on my E36 M3, telling myself that with the limited slip diff, BMW's 50/50 weight balance and the superior braking and handling inherent in the chassis, I'd do alright. Although I could get up slick hills if I had momentum, I could not get up hills from a standing start - even with the LSD. One time traffic came to a stop on a hill and I could not get going again, so I had to shamefully put my hazards on, back up sharply onto the shoulder to avoid the guy behind me, go back down the hill when traffic cleared, and come back up it. Like AWD Addict says, there's no way around the laws of physics.

My first reaction when reading this thread title is that AWD and snow tires solve different problems:

• AWD will make your going as good as your lateral cornering and braking.
• Snow tires will increase your snow/ice grip.

If you have snow tires without AWD, you will have good lateral cornering and braking, but you will have a fraction of the acceleration traction. If you have AWD without snow tires, you will experience a loss of snow/ice traction in all categories - braking, accelerating, lateral cornering. In a harsh environment, there is no substitute for having both AWD and snow tires. If you don't live in a harsh environment, make a decision on which is best for you based on the tradeoffs above plus the cost to your wallet.

xi + snow tires = the king, the best, but kinda sucks in the summers (Nothern Ontario here, so we have way more issues than Philly)

Nothing goes through snow like AWD + snow tires (Audi is especially good with AWD, better than XDrive, though practically speaking it doesn't make a difference)

RWD with snows is good, but it cannot recover form a slide the way AWD with snows can...with AWD + snows, you can power your way through a slide on snow or even some patchy ice; RWD cannot give you this safety feature...all DSC can do is apply brakes and try to keep you in a straight line -- you will still understeer.

BUT AWD is a pain on gas, and if you have 6MT...all AWD cars bog off the line, their power delivery is not as immediate as 2 wheel drive cars (either FWD or RWD) so they feel clunky and heavy. Plus they are heavier and feel less agile and swift than RWD counterparts.

I have a 6MT xi - my 335xi is quite clunky and heavy out of 1st gear...it takes forever for the AWD tranny to pick up the power and distribute it to 4 wheels -- 2 wheels is simply faster availability of power when engaging the clutch, it JUST IS. This is the most frustrating part about my xi with 6 MT. WIth automatic, the XI is a no brainer. XI + Turbo = Automatic transmission all the way.

[virtualbong]

I drove in blizzard like conditions this past Sunday for 4 hours on my stock 17" run flat tires and the car drove like a champ. I have a e92 328xi.

[Pascal]

I follow this post with interest cause I commute with a 320d xdrive (33 MPG average). I am surprised you don't have them imported over to the US.
With a RWD, I would do like I did on mine: get a proper snow wheelset. This way, I've been able to fit once size lower (205/55/16" Nokian) and therefore narrower tyres for an even better grip.
Just leave them on when it is likely to snow, you will save you summers and your car from troubles.

In some countries nearby like in Germany, they are compulsory during a winter period (in Switzerland not).

[Spydeputy]

save money and get snow tires for your BMW. Gas mileage is maybe what, a mile a gallon difference between an x and an i? my 335xi gets 21 around town /28 mpg hyw.

[Kikken]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

RWD is the worst of all formats for winter driving.

This is not always true, and in a car with 50/50 weight distribution (which our cars do have) it is certainly not true.

I've owned AWD, FWD, and RWD cars, and I'd take a decent RWD with snow tires over an AWD with all-seasons ("decent" meaning something with at least 50% of the weight on the back wheels). But certainly the best solution would be AWD with snow tires.

[mr p-j]

Originally Posted by chowser51

Tell BMW to import a 335d x-drive and I'm all over it. Mileage sucks in my 325xi, but with AWD and snow tires, I haven't gotten stuck anywhere yet. My brother gets much better mileage in his 330i. I missed a 330xi by a few hours at the dealership.
Not buying another BMW unless it's a 335d x-drive.
or 535d x-drive.

C'mon BMW, bring them over to the states!

they don´t make the 335 d whit xdrive. but the 330 xd is nice. had forgotten that they don´t sell it in the us. and thats a shame! they really should.
but i think that this is going to change very soon!

i can get 37 miles to the gallon whit the 330 xd if i put the cruise at 68 mph.
usually and mixed driving, city and highway whit speeds of about 90 mph i get about 29.
never had a car that comes even close to that before.

car still has 238 hp and is pretty fun to drive.



about the awd rwd issue.
i would never get a car that is not awd again. whit that said i think that the guy that started the tread will do whit proper winter tires!

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

I'm lighter. 30-40% city driving, 20mpg

Just curious but when you drive another BMW on the same drive, do you also get 20 MPG? Yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about the gas guzzler tax on my old M3 that averaged the same 24MPG as every other BMW I've ever driven, AWD or RWD on my daily commute.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

That's incorrect. Having driven both extensively, I can vouch. Take it from a life-long driving Bostonian. I'd take AWD with A/S tires over RWD with snows ANY DAY.

dR

How does AWD help you steer or stop better?

Getting forward motion (the only advantage of AWD) is a very small and insignificant part of driving in snow.

You'll have to steer and stop too. I suspect that you do that more often than going up steep hills.