[Danny.B.]

Anyone good with ICE that can help me out? Had a bit of a mare with my system lately!

Actually regretting putting it all in at the moment...

System comprises of:

Standard 6 speaker system CD Player

Technics Harness
Focal K2s up front with the tweeters fitted in Original BMW trim.
Vibe Slicks out the back
JL Audio 400/4 Amp hidden in the boot powering all the speakers and a vibe active sub hooked up to the pre out.

Now most of the time this sounds pretty good as i would hope!

But sometimes i get an annoying buzzing through the car that fluctuates depending on the throttle position. Am i right in thinking that i need to check the earths? (Either side of the rear seats as per how BMW Earth it all)

Annoyingly my Bluetooth is now ridiculously quiet, and yes ive turned it up on the headunit, and the phone, fucked around with it today and the only way i could get a decent volumne was turning the gains on the amp up to around 3/4 which i didnt want to do. Down side to this is the "noise" levels are stupid now when you can hear the song fading in or out. Could live with it, but id rather not.

And i discovered last weeked after the missus nearly spanking the car into a wall in reverse that the rear sensors are inaudible! (she still opened the boot into the wall though - DOH) I checked the sensors and they appear to work, you can hear it in the cabin but its as loud as a mouse farting! A small mouse too!

Im sure they have worked before so im in sure if this is related or not.

to top it all off my 20a fuse in the distribution block has blown and now my sub is dead But thats my own fault!

Any help with the other items would be much appreciated!!

Is there a line in the car that possibly isnt AMP'ed that needs to be?! Hence quiet reverse tones (handbrake tone is fine still) and quiet bluetooth?

I know alot will just say take it to a specialist but id rather do it myself, or i may be selling the bits off

[lolololol]

Obvious question perhaps - you did move the optical cable to the Technics harness ?

[Danny.B.]

I Did indeed good sir!

[IanS100]

I had considered upgrading my ICE & in reading reports by people that had already done so, I came across quite a few who reported back very similar problems to yours. I'm afraid that doesn't help you very much but at least it's gratifying to know your not alone & it's a recognized problem & not something you've cocked up.

[Danny.B.]

Which problems have you read about please Ian?

[Danny.B.]

Thinking out loud

The lack of volumne on my bluetooth and reversing sensors, could this be anything to do with the fact that my signal isnt cleaned, i dont run an MS8 or cleansweep, bit1 etc etc

Will coding to Hifi sort me out?

[B33M3R]

Danny

First confirm we are talking XD400/4

I know you're using Technics harness but how have you got this connected to the amp? Are you only amping the front channels? *Have you used anything else in-between the harness and the amp, summing device, line out converter etc?

This amp accepts balanced differential RCA's inputs up to 4v. *In base form we know the HU puts out up to about 9v. *This could be an issue.

The noise increasing with throttle position to me indicates engine load is affecting the noise. *Could be an earthing issue, doesn't have to be the earths you've used for the amp. *It could be the cars main earth.

The fact that you've lost the rear PDC means you've lost your rear channels some how. *These only come through the rear channels.*

If you can shed some light on the above, it could be a mix of several things causing your issues

[Danny.B.]

Long time no speak!

It is indeed an XD400/4

Come to think of it yes i did use a couple of LOCs, only cheap halfords jobbys, these:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_265889


You think i could be damaging my amp then?

Ill check my earths tommorrow if i can get time!

Rear channels i can change the gain and they definately are making music! i can seill here the PDC but its really really really quiet!! what can i do the fix this?

[Danny.B.]

Why cant mine work likes yours Matt

[B33M3R]

Eeek, they look nasty!

Is that some sort of in line resistor?

So, you have your four channels from Technics harness as follows

FR+
FR-
FL+
FL-
RR+
RR-
RL+
RL-

You have two RCA low level stereo inputs on that amp. *How many of those line out converters are you using and how are they connected up?

[B33M3R]

Sorry,*

My bad, you have four RCA inputs on the amp, I was reading the XD200/2 manual!

First things first.

Have you definitely got the amp in four channel mode? *If not it will be ignoring the rear inputs and simply putting the front channels across all four channels, thus no rear PDC.

I can't seem to find much info on those Halfords jobbies but they are entitled connectors, not converters. If it were me I'd change those out anyway for something like this

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/rapt...convertor.html

Changing out those connectors will rule out this possible voltage issue. *You may need to get a voltage meter and a CD with a test tone signal to adjust it up properly.

After this follow Appendix A in the amps manual to properly set up the input sensitivity on the amp.

Danny, I don't know how you've set up your stereo but if you haven't already I'd consider running the rear speakers solely off your HU ( you can do this easily by looping those channels on Technics harness back on each other) The rears aren't full range anyway and only any good for rear fill. *This would also resolve the PDC issue.

Id then separate out the front under seats and mid's onto their own channels and power these off the four channel amp. *If you look in my guide you would need to unplug the under seats, bridge the plug with the jumpers and run new wires to the under seats from the amp.

You would then be able to use the amps crossovers to control these and to a degree the gains to balance them out. *I'd suggest you'd get better bass from the under seats but you'd need to keep the gains modest on these. *The Focal's will of course also benefit from this separation as they won't be sharing power with the under seats.

Apologies if you already have it this way!

[Danny.B.]

Originally Posted by B33M3R

Eeek, they look nasty!

Is that some sort of in line resistor?

So, you have your four channels from Technics harness as follows

FR+
FR-
FL+
FL-
RR+
RR-
RL+
RL-

You have two RCA low level stereo inputs on that amp. *How many of those line out converters are you using and how are they connected up?

Eeek is what i thought when i brought them
I have two of them yes, one is on the front channels one is on the rear, the rca lines are then going into the amp.

[Danny.B.]

Originally Posted by B33M3R

Sorry,*

My bad, you have four RCA inputs on the amp, I was reading the XD200/2 manual!

First things first.

Have you definitely got the amp in four channel mode? *If not it will be ignoring the rear inputs and simply putting the front channels across all four channels, thus no rear PDC.

I can't seem to find much info on those Halfords jobbies but they are entitled connectors, not converters. If it were me I'd change those out anyway for something like this

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/rapt...convertor.html

Changing out those connectors will rule out this possible voltage issue. *You may need to get a voltage meter and a CD with a test tone signal to adjust it up properly.

After this follow Appendix A in the amps manual to properly set up the input sensitivity on the amp.

Danny, I don't know how you've set up your stereo but if you haven't already I'd consider running the rear speakers solely off your HU ( you can do this easily by looping those channels on Technics harness back on each other) The rears aren't full range anyway and only any good for rear fill. *This would also resolve the PDC issue.

Id then separate out the front under seats and mid's onto their own channels and power these off the four channel amp. *If you look in my guide you would need to unplug the under seats, bridge the plug with the jumpers and run new wires to the under seats from the amp.

You would then be able to use the amps crossovers to control these and to a degree the gains to balance them out. *I'd suggest you'd get better bass from the under seats but you'd need to keep the gains modest on these. *The Focal's will of course also benefit from this separation as they won't be sharing power with the under seats.

Apologies if you already have it this way!

Thats not they way i have it, is that how i should have it then? If that is the case will i only need a LOC with 2 channels as opposed to the one above with 4?

How do i check that the system is in 4 channel mode, im sure it is! (Just checked this... im on 2 channel input mode, but from memory when i changed it to 4 from memory it didnt sound very good at all, in fact i think it was very quiet!

Also my preout is set to channel 1 and 2, instead of "sum" when i put it on "sum" it doesnt work!

Id like to set it up like yours, that way i can go down the earthquake route also.

What bits will i need to connect my amp to set it up as you have mentioned?

[B33M3R]

With your current set up you you are trying to amplify four channels straight from the HU.*

They are all going into the amp but as you have it set to two channel mode it is only using inputs 1 & 2, it's ignoring inputs 3&4. *

It is playing input channels 1&2 on outputs 1&2 but also mirroring them on 3&4. Your back speakers are now a mirror of your front speakers.

It probably sounds 'better' because your rear channels from the HU aren't full range. Switching to 4 channel is playing those and they likely sound naff but should bring back your PDC.

This will be why you've lost PDC, as the rear channels and presently removed from the system.

The summing feature is related to the amps two pre amp outputs which you hopefully have your self powered sub box connected to. *If you have this set to 1&2 the pre amps will mirror inputs 1&2. *

If you have it set to 'Sum' it will blend all four input channels together. *It may be quieter (do you mean the sub box?) on 'Sum' because your rear channels aren't full range so you're knocking out some lower end frequencies, just a guess.

To fix this issue, remove the rear channels form the equation completely and run them from now on the HU. *Simply loop Technic's harness back on itself on the rear channels and the rears will be back on HU power. *The rears may be quieter but they are only for a bit of rear fill, they are not full range speakers in their present state.

Once this is done your PDC should re-appear, the only issue could be that the rears will be lower than you fronts at any given volume as the front are amped and the rears aren't. *Hopefully, by raising the PDC volume you should be able to get these to a reasonable level.

Next you really need to address the input voltage level and yes you can just use a two channel one now. *I'd look for an adjustable one though so you may find its the same price to just get a four channel one. *This will hopefully sort out the unwanted noises you are experiencing. *It will also allow you to level match the front and rear speakers a bit.

The best way to have your setup in my opinion would be to run the front mid's and under seats off the amps four channels. *To do this you will need to *separate them out as I described. *You can then low pass the under seats, and hi pass the mid's. *You will have better control over the system and it should be a marked improvement.

You are still left with the 'tweaked' EQ of the base system which you could rectify with coding if you feel you needed it.

[Danny.B.]

Thanks mate that gives me something to go at today!

Ill go and re do my rear channel for now today, then ill start looking into a decent LOC, unless you know of one? What do i need to look for to make sure it matches my HU and amp?

I also have no idea of how to change the PDC level you mentioned? Is that an Idrive only feature?

Hopefully after doing this my bluetooth might be louder too?

Sounds like my next part of the install will come together soon then, i may be pestering you for exactly what material i will need to connect a set of earthquakes up under the front seats.

Cheers

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by Danny.B.

Which problems have you read about please Ian?

It was the bluetooth & PDC volumes that were very low - I've probably saved the links somewhere amongst my thousands of bookmarks, I'll see if I can find anything

[Danny.B.]

Originally Posted by IanS100

It was the bluetooth & PDC volumes that were very low - I've probably saved the links somewhere amongst my thousands of bookmarks, I'll see if I can find anything

Thanks Ian!

PDC seems to be ok now though!

Thanks Matt!! I tied up the rear speakers to run from the HU, and as you said the PDC can now be heared!! I see what you mean about the gains though its pittifully quiet out the back now! ive turned the gain about 1mm and its leveld off quiet nicely now.

Just go to try the bluetooth now, i got a feeling i will need to turn the gains up still though to make it better!

Ive also regained a bit of control on my HU! When i put the amp in my front and rear, and left and right controls were completely pigged up, they both didnt do what they were supposed to do!!

But now ive regained one of them... I can actually control the amount of sound that goes from the front to the back now (if my gains arent too high on the amp!)

I still have the left and right issue that will now need to be sorted. Especially now!! When its sat in the middle it sounds as though im at a concert and the vocals are faint and almost delayed. All the way to the right and it sounds spot on from the front, but the rear right only works, and vice versa all the way to the left!! How can i fix this?!

PS no filtering on at all.

[B33M3R]

Hi

Good start, PDC is back, this is because the car is now basically working as stock again for the rear channels. *They will sound quieter then the front because the volume levels between front and rear are now very different, the front is amped and the rears are not, also I'd wager the after market rears need more oomph than they are getting.

You have no real way to make the rear louder and they are going to be regulated by the head unit volume control. The problem at the moment is that the front speakers volume will raise much faster than the rears, firstly because they are amplifed, secondly because you're input voltages are too high at the moment. *With an adjustable line out converter you're going to be able to bring this under control a bit but at higher volumes the front will always out perform the rears, not a real problem.

The fader control has come back into play because you've separated the front and rear channels out. *Before, with the amp on 2 channel, the fader would not have worked because the front channel was being played both front and rear.

Your balance control should have always worked, unaffected by any of this. *If it isn't and both sides aren't sounding the same then something is wrong. *Check your wiring as you may have one side out of phase.

We can pretty much rule out anything wrong with Technics harness up front so you'll need to check where you have connected this up at the rear to the RCA's, if that's all ok you'll need to check your door connections are correct to the Focals crossovers and then onto each speaker. *

The balance should be working and both sides should be sounding equal when you shft left and right on the HU.

If its still not right, and everything appears to be connected properly, it's possibly those shonky little Halfords jobbies.

So far as a good line out converter, I've not really much experience with them so I'd suggest a quick search on the forums. *You don't need anything ultra high end, just something where you can adjust your voltages down (sensitivity) prior to the JL amp as anything higher than 4v is too much for it.

For them time being, until remedied, keep your gains on the amp down low and don't go too mad with the volume on the HU.

I suspect your hands free will start playing nice once this has been taken care of. *It may be a bit of input sensitivity / volume differential causing this, who knows! *There's not really anything else changed.

So far as the under seats, if you have a look at my guide, they will simply need disconnecting from the car and the vehicle side plug bridging with some jumpers. *Technic sells plugs pre-bridged, very easy.

Then you will need to run new speaker wire from the amp to the under seats. *Again Technic sells pre-wired speaker cables with the correct plug pre fitted. *

If you are definitely going for SWS8's or similar you won't need this plug connection as you will just be connecting straight up to the terminals on the SWS8, so it might be worth waiting until you go for this next step and just buy some good quality speaker wire to run to them

[Danny.B.]

Thanks Matt your an absolute star!

I will check all my connections monday if the weather allows as im off work again that day. Its a weird one, extreme left and the fronts sound fine, extreme right and they sound fine.

When its in the middle or 2 to the left as id want it the vocals are not there!

Balancing is fine on the rears, but to get the fronts to work it has top be fully left or fully right, so i onlt have one rear speaker working at any time because of this!

Ill have a poke around monday!

getting there!


Speaker wire for the underseat subs is that it? Thats good, i thought they would have there own power source too! Shouldnt be too hard then... he says!

Will buy myself a new LOC and see what i can do!

[makkan00]

I must say, nobody could offer you 1:1 help better than Beemer offered.

Danny, I thought you were more into sound system, but after reading your posts, I am bit disappointed. Good part is, you are learning.

Follow what Beemer suggested, and you will get it sorted.

[Danny.B.]

Originally Posted by makkan00

I must say, nobody could offer you 1:1 help better than Beemer offered.

Danny, I thought you were more into sound system, but after reading your posts, I am bit disappointed. Good part is, you are learning.

Follow what Beemer suggested, and you will get it sorted.

I agree Sam, Matt has helped me no end!

and sorry to disapoint you i want to be better with it, but theres little bits i havent quote got the nack of!

[Bomber]

You cant beat JL's Cleansweep but its not cheap