[**335i**]

Originally Posted by clivem2

If you have pre-29.2 then try not to get it updated.

thats why i am happy with 29.1.1 version no lag at all

[RBBMWE46M3]

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by clivem2

Failure.....

When I got to the garage they wanted to diagnose etc. They can only update if there's a problem. Had I been reading forums....... They road tested the car, said it was fine. They are now going to research the problem via their own internal forum. I asked them to get a statement from BMW as to whether 1s to 1.5s of lag at low revs in 3r / 4th gear is acceptable, especially as when the engine is cold lag is less than 0.5s.

The strange thing is that driving home the lag characteristic is now different, it's more linear, it is still there but somehow the curve has changed so it's less noticeable. I wonder if they reset the throttle adaptation. How do you do this on the E9x? I knew how to do it on my E4x.

Wow, I would have gone ballistic on them if they denied the update after you showed up for it and all. That's a real shame. Nice to know that your car being broken and not driving like it is supposed to is "not a problem" in their eyes. I'd call them and holler, and call BMW NA and get them to 3-way your service manager and holler and them all.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Wow, I would have gone ballistic on them if they denied the update after you showed up for it and all. That's a real shame. Nice to know that your car being broken and not driving like it is supposed to is "not a problem" in their eyes. I'd call them and holler, and call BMW NA and get them to 3-way your service manager and holler and them all.

They get one chance to do their research and come back to me with a way forward. I need to drive the car some more to get a handle on the way the lag now presents itself. Instead of a surge after 1s to 1.5s I get a linear build-up. Can this be throttle adaptation? I can't believe they updated my s/w without telling me, although there was time for this. My radio stations, seat settings, locking etc are all set as they were before.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by clivem2

They get one chance to do their research and come back to me with a way forward. I need to drive the car some more to get a handle on the way the lag now presents itself. Instead of a surge after 1s to 1.5s I get a linear build-up. Can this be throttle adaptation? I can't believe they updated my s/w without telling me, although there was time for this. My radio stations, seat settings, locking etc are all set as they were before.

Sounds like they probably didn't update it...and why would they update it but tell you they couldn't/wouldn't do it?

Anyway, I think the "lag" in general fluctutes between a seemingly concrete 2 second delay, and a "slow build up" that just leaves the car feeling anemic with a slow ramp-up to normal. I can't explain why it is sometimes one way and sometimes the other. Just this morning I was in third gear, doing about 40 mph and needed to change lanes quickly and accelerate fast to avoid angering cars approaching from the rear. Well, I forgot to drive it like a Civic SI and didn't downshift. I nearly got crushed off the road waiting...waiting...waiting for the car to go anywhere after I floored it in third gear around 2000 rpm. PITIFUL.

Sometimes, as a combination of getting sick and tired of fighting BMW about this and possibly getting "used to" the lag, I almost say..."eh, maybe it's not that big of a deal." Then something REAL WORLD happens like either the Smart Car p0wnage that I got two weekends ago, or this dangerous situation of a lane change/acceleration occurance (which has happened to me numerous times in traffic now) and all of the sudden I'm fired up to 110% angry again. The fight shall continue.

[jhbodle]

Originally Posted by clivem2

They get one chance to do their research and come back to me with a way forward. I need to drive the car some more to get a handle on the way the lag now presents itself. Instead of a surge after 1s to 1.5s I get a linear build-up. Can this be throttle adaptation? I can't believe they updated my s/w without telling me, although there was time for this. My radio stations, seat settings, locking etc are all set as they were before.

They waited until you got down there to tell you they wouldn't do it? Unbelievable! I'm wondering if I should take one for the team and get my car upgraded from 27.2 to 31.1 to see if it really has fixed the problem (some people on the UK forum suggest it has)...but I guess it's weighing up the pros and cons - stick with my current issues (Auto jerking when cold, iPod issues) or fix them and take on the turbo lag?

[shaddai]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Sounds like they probably didn't update it...and why would they update it but tell you they couldn't/wouldn't do it?

Anyway, I think the "lag" in general fluctutes between a seemingly concrete 2 second delay, and a "slow build up" that just leaves the car feeling anemic with a slow ramp-up to normal. I can't explain why it is sometimes one way and sometimes the other. Just this morning I was in third gear, doing about 40 mph and needed to change lanes quickly and accelerate fast to avoid angering cars approaching from the rear. Well, I forgot to drive it like a Civic SI and didn't downshift. I nearly got crushed off the road waiting...waiting...waiting for the car to go anywhere after I floored it in third gear around 2000 rpm. PITIFUL.

Sometimes, as a combination of getting sick and tired of fighting BMW about this and possibly getting "used to" the lag, I almost say..."eh, maybe it's not that big of a deal." Then something REAL WORLD happens like either the Smart Car p0wnage that I got two weekends ago, or this dangerous situation of a lane change/acceleration occurance (which has happened to me numerous times in traffic now) and all of the sudden I'm fired up to 110% angry again. The fight shall continue.

I'm a tad perplexed - when my car was updated to 30.0.2 none of my presets were lost although my BC lost it's lifetime MPG average data. I had the lag before 30.0.2 (came equipped that way ) - edit - I just realized I've never made any presets on the radio... so I have no way of verifying the radio reprogram thing...

I seem to experience the same frustrations as you - some days the car is mostly on point, while other days it's pathetic. Even when it's mostly on point, the lag is still there and discernible. Then again, perhaps I've adapted to it's lag and I'm driving at higher RPMs to combat it's effects... it's easier to hear the rather nice exhaust note that way. Can't do that in stop-n-go traffic where the lag is especially dangerous.

So yes - the fight continues. I really want to like my car completely...

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Sounds like they probably didn't update it...and why would they update it but tell you they couldn't/wouldn't do it?

I don't believe they did update it and not tell me. I know on the UK forum there is mention of 31.1 fixing or at least reducing lag. My feeling at the moment is that the build-up in boost is much more linear than it was, I've not felt this before - the ca ronly has 1,000 miles on it. To fair it has never been bad enough for me to be embarassed by a much lesser car. I'm now wondering is they reset my throttle adaptation and that when people think 31.1 has reduced lag in fact all that's happened is that with the 31.1 upgrade process you get a reset adaptation. Also could be that the adaptation parameters have changed and this is the only real change?

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Sounds like they probably didn't update it...and why would they update it but tell you they couldn't/wouldn't do it?

Anyway, I think the "lag" in general fluctutes between a seemingly concrete 2 second delay, and a "slow build up" that just leaves the car feeling anemic with a slow ramp-up to normal. I can't explain why it is sometimes one way and sometimes the other. Just this morning I was in third gear, doing about 40 mph and needed to change lanes quickly and accelerate fast to avoid angering cars approaching from the rear. Well, I forgot to drive it like a Civic SI and didn't downshift. I nearly got crushed off the road waiting...waiting...waiting for the car to go anywhere after I floored it in third gear around 2000 rpm. PITIFUL.

Sometimes, as a combination of getting sick and tired of fighting BMW about this and possibly getting "used to" the lag, I almost say..."eh, maybe it's not that big of a deal." Then something REAL WORLD happens like either the Smart Car p0wnage that I got two weekends ago, or this dangerous situation of a lane change/acceleration occurance (which has happened to me numerous times in traffic now) and all of the sudden I'm fired up to 110% angry again. The fight shall continue.

...and BMW cheered.

Don't 'get used to it'

[tek818]

interesting posts from a UK member that seems to be "in the know":

Originally Posted by E92Fan

The V29.2 Progman update was designed to minimise, or at best eradicate, the rattling wastegate issue that was being experienced by quite a few 335i drivers. Essentially, what was happening was that at low revs the engine management closes the wastegates - however some wastegates suffered from a deterioration in freedom of movement, and therefore didn't close 100%. Because they weren't sealing properly, they were rattling away when the throttle moved from an open to fully closed position.

The solution BMW came up with was to reprogram the ECU so that it would keep the wastegates open until 3000 revs, therefore reducing the rattling. However, the downside to this is that the engine suffers from increased turbo lag at low revs, and hence the dispute in the USA started with drivers complaining that the V29.2 reduced the drivability and performance of the 335i.

In practice, there is a noticeable increase in turbo lag with the V29.2 software (i had it on my car a few months ago, then changed back to V28.2 software because of this). BMW however realised that the software change did not fix the inherent wear problem with the wastegates, and so have recently issued an internal PUMA report to instruct dealers to replace the wastegates if there is sign of considerable rattling from the engine.

The good news is that BMW are now on V31.1 Progman software, and I can report that the drivability is the same as that when I had V28.x.

Bottom line - your car is going in for service and a software update - the software will be updated to V31.1, and you should have no problems or worries

Originally Posted by E92Fan

BMW UK didn't update all their GT1 machines with the latest DME software, precisely because not all new software releases are bug free. For instance, V31.0 when it first came out couldn't code to some cars with certain FRM modules. It was very hit and miss. Within two or three days, there were PUMA updates to instruct delears that if a vehicle had xxx module or yyy module installed, then V31.0 was not to be loaded etc etc...

We originally did an update from V28.2 to V29.2 to see the effect it would have on my car, no one liked it, so we reverted back and waited until V31.1 became available

[ezatnova]

...and on top of it all there was the mystery of Pavel's car going from Win to Fail magically one day, after his update. Argh!

We also have to remember that Meyergru's car is being given an autopsy by the main guys in Germany, as we speak. That is our main ray of light at this point. It will be very interesting to see the outcome of all of those shenanigans in the next week or three.

Maybe the following conversation will take place after they put all progmans on his car one after the other and test it out:

Hanz: Wow, this car licks donkey balls after we put this 29.2 version on, replacing version 27.4

Franz: Yes, you are correct, it drives like a Civic SI and sounds like a lawn mower now!

Hanz: What could have caused this?

Franz: Well, the wastegates are hanging wide open at idle and cruise now, I bet that's it.

Hanz: GENIUS!

[rismo]

Not sure if this one has already been posted so hereby:


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/22/b...s-performance/

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by rismo123

Not sure if this one has already been posted so hereby:


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/22/b...s-performance/

Yeah this was discussed several times in the past month or so.

I forget who it was on here who heard back some form of aknowledgement from Roundel about 1-2 weeks ago. Have we heard anything more?

[Cobu]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Sounds like they probably didn't update it...and why would they update it but tell you they couldn't/wouldn't do it?

Anyway, I think the "lag" in general fluctutes between a seemingly concrete 2 second delay, and a "slow build up" that just leaves the car feeling anemic with a slow ramp-up to normal. I can't explain why it is sometimes one way and sometimes the other. Just this morning I was in third gear, doing about 40 mph and needed to change lanes quickly and accelerate fast to avoid angering cars approaching from the rear. Well, I forgot to drive it like a Civic SI and didn't downshift. I nearly got crushed off the road waiting...waiting...waiting for the car to go anywhere after I floored it in third gear around 2000 rpm. PITIFUL.

Sometimes, as a combination of getting sick and tired of fighting BMW about this and possibly getting "used to" the lag, I almost say..."eh, maybe it's not that big of a deal." Then something REAL WORLD happens like either the Smart Car p0wnage that I got two weekends ago, or this dangerous situation of a lane change/acceleration occurance (which has happened to me numerous times in traffic now) and all of the sudden I'm fired up to 110% angry again. The fight shall continue.

I feel your pain man - I too almost got crushed from behind couple of times b/c I forgot how long it takes for this harvest machine to react to my WOT and didn't downshift.
I loved being able to quickly shift lanes pre virus 29.2 ... all that power and responsiveness at low RPM was reason #1 I got the car in the first place.

[slubu]

Originally Posted by tek818

interesting posts from a UK member that seems to be "in the know":

that is very promising, no?

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by slubu

that is very promising, no?

Not until he chimes in with more info as to why he feels there could be improvement for us (especially US customers) when we are being told be reliable sources that there is no DME update involved for 31.x, so it is impossible for it to address the lag. If BMW wouldn't have fisted Clive in his nether regions, we'd know more today/tomorrow...but thanks to those asshats..now we have to still speculate.

[bmrm396]

do any of the tunes cure this??????????

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

do any of the tunes cure this??????????

dinan and procede will very shortly (in the 3.1 final)

[imoksoami]

Originally Posted by tek818

interesting posts from a UK member that seems to be "in the know":

Really that post is a brief summation of what we already know except the part that says 31.1 cures the 'lag' issue that BMW claims doesn't exist.

[tek818]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi guys,
Looking for PROcede'd cars in the SF bay area that are suffering from lag due to the infamous BMW wastegate rattle fix software update. Just looking to meet up for an hour or two and test a "lag-fix" map. Preferably sometime soon in the few days. The car I saw earlier today didn't have the lag issue after all so back to square one

Please contact me via PM (please include phone number) if you are local and have a couple of hours free some evening. During the day is fine as well.

To confirm that you have the lag issue, just view Debug 3 in the datalogging parameters. On a fully warmed up engine, at idle, if you see Debug 3 at 10-15% then you have the lag issue. If you see it at 40-50%, you are no such issue and don't need any fix.

If you don't know how to set up datalog parameters, go here:
http://www.vishnutuningforum.com/for...read.php?t=412

Hope to here from ya!

Cheers,
Shiv

someone... anyone...

[ezatnova]

Not that I want this thread to go down the OT road of tunes, but what was said a couple of posts back is essentially correct. I'd say Dinan CURES the lag, because the code is 27.4 code. There is no 29.2 business to mess anything up. Procede 3.1 is COUNTERING the lag, via fooling the ecu into altering the wg duty cycles. Obviously the flash (Dinan) is the purest and best way to "fix" the lag, but hopefully the Procede will help some people out too. Now, if we would ever see Shark Edit/Injector from Jim C, then there would be another option for a "pure" flash fix.

Last thing I'll add... the other big player right now, Terry's JB3, chooses to not alter the wg duty cycles at this time, due to Terry (BMS) believing that if the BMW engineers backed off on the duty cycles, they had good reason to do so, and he chooses not to counter that. Personally I say the hell that, and Terry should get in the business of offering a lag-fix version of the JB3. But...that's just me. Bottom line is, if any tune is "fixing" or "curing" the lag, then the original issue of the wg rattle could/will return, which is what BMW was so poorly attempting to cure in the first place. Again, I say to hell with BMW and their engineers until they come up with a REAL fix that would stop the rattle in a PROPER way, i.e. hardware replacement, allowing the car to run PROPER wg duty cycles again.

[Prof3ssor]

I have not posted in a while but I just wanted to drop in and vent to say I hate my f'ing car and want to wrap it around a tree every time I think of how much money I am wasting. I threw it to the floor this morning as I needed to go around a garbage truck on a single lane road. Well there was another car coming and I had plenty of room. I should know better that my 50k twin turbo pussy "excels" in situations that require immediate response since my car is running withing spec. When I punched the gas I think I actually went backwards. The oncoming car locked up their brakes and it was not a good scene. I hope and pray for all evil and bad things to happen to the BMW engineers and management team that control this situation.