[imoksoami]

I think the reason they delayed the wastegates closing with the 29.2 'update' was to bandaid the wastegate rattle problem so until they fix the wastegate rattle problem there won't be a 29.2 fix? It's crazy that they can get away with this.

From post #1108
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm

[munu]

Originally Posted by KingCobra

I can tell you my build date as soon as I get the car back. Yes I am positive the lag is gone. For example, it used to be if I was in second gear and rolling with the RPMs around 1k, if I would gas it the car would just kind of bog down until just before 3500RPM. It would go, but it just felt like I was dumping gas through it more than anything.. once it hit that mark you would feel the rush of power and the car would lurch forward (it was really frustrating). Now, if I do the same thing, its at just before 1500 that the power comes on. I did this after driving about 45 minutes, then just found empty streets and tested it out every way I could think of. The power is there almost instantly now. It responds just like it used to when I first got it.

Kingcobra, can you please tell us if you notice any change in the exhaust noise after the software fix was done. I feel that lag is sometimes hard to find out without much driving but I can immediately tell as soon as the car starts if it comes with 29.2 software.

So was there any difference in the noise level between pre-29.2 / During 29.2 / After latest fix you got.

[tyler9595]

Originally Posted by KingCobra

He said there may be a patch now to address it. Now I dont know what exactly this software is that they changed, but he did give me the release numbers. He said it was part of the ECU program but that's all he really knew. After driving the car I was so excited I never even thought to go back and speak to the tech directly. I can tell you this though, my car is now back to normal. No kidding.

DONT TEASE ME BRO!! DONT TEASE ME!!

Oh, man I hope this is true...this whole F'in issue has erased my will to live...I've been just counting down the days until my lease is up...the lag-fest ends in 38 days.

Now, if BMW can fix the lag before then, I might go month-to-month for the winter.

[Turbo>NA]

Im kinda lost, So bmw programs and upgrade cars with lag? I have a 335i which I got last year in august 07, and my car is at the dealer now, am I going to have this problem?

[KingCobra]

Originally Posted by munu

Kingcobra, can you please tell us if you notice any change in the exhaust noise after the software fix was done. I feel that lag is sometimes hard to find out without much driving but I can immediately tell as soon as the car starts if it comes with 29.2 software.

So was there any difference in the noise level between pre-29.2 / During 29.2 / After latest fix you got.

I will let you know after I get to drive it again tomorrow..

[KingCobra]

Originally Posted by tyler9595

DONT TEASE ME BRO!! DONT TEASE ME!!

Oh, man I hope this is true...this whole F'in issue has erased my will to live...I've been just counting down the days until my lease is up...the lag-fest ends in 38 days.

Now, if BMW can fix the lag before then, I might go month-to-month for the winter.

That's pretty funny right there.. I don't think lag would bother me as much in the winter. As soon as everything turns to ice, snow, and salt.. the party's over anyway! As long as I knew I was moving on to something new right after that is..

[KingCobra]

Originally Posted by Turbo>NA

Im kinda lost, So bmw programs and upgrade cars with lag? I have a 335i which I got last year in august 07, and my car is at the dealer now, am I going to have this problem?

Not that the intentionally add lag, but some "fixes" for other things they added to the software have had this undesirable side effect. If I were you I would be on the phone to the dealer first thing in the morning and tell them under no circumstances to update your software.

[tyler9595]

Originally Posted by KingCobra

Not that the intentionally add lag, but some "fixes" for other things they added to the software have had this undesirable side effect. If I were you I would be on the phone to the dealer first thing in the morning and tell them under no circumstances to update your software.

yeah that's good advice...turbo>na, you should call your dealer asap...hopefully you can catch them before they upgrade your progman...otherwise you are hosed.

[Cobu]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Cobu, that's mildly good news...I guess...I mean, they didn't blow you off and say you were nuts.

Prof3ssor, my dealer is basically doing the same as Cobu's (they are also only like 10 miles apart, so maybe they share info...although that'd be too good to be true). They say "yeah, we feel it's different....but we can't do anything right now." and short of reverting me to 27.4, then yes, they are pretty much right. It's up to the German eggheads to figure this out and send out a fix...if they ever will (or, it's up to us to sue them for enough $ to recoupe the resale value hit it will take when we all dump these laggy cars this year).

I am afraid that Ezantova is right. I pretty much got the "we cannot do anything here" response, and as soon as we receive the fix I'll let you know. He also said that more people should complain since that way BMW may react quicker. I can't believe they expect owners to keep complaining and looking for the fix - it's like, sorry we can't fix the problem we introduced in the first place but keep bugging someone and keep paying for the car and everything will be fine ... I Am in the meantime going to call BMW NA "again" and bitch about this crap. Bottom line - if I don't see a fix in the next couple of weeks either BMW NA or the f'n service manager at the dealership can have the car.

On a less emotional note: it seems like everybody's good work (calling BMW NA and visiting dealerships) is paying off - at least they don't blow us off anymore. I did argue w/my SA though to put in some better verbiage in the disposition papers but was not successful. It really pissed me off when I read the last line which pretty much said - vehicle performs as per design

[Turbo>NA]

Originally Posted by KingCobra

Not that the intentionally add lag, but some "fixes" for other things they added to the software have had this undesirable side effect. If I were you I would be on the phone to the dealer first thing in the morning and tell them under no circumstances to update your software.

If they do update, anyway I can give it back and tell them to take the lag off? lol

[clivem2]

I've just picked up my new 335i today. I've only done 220 miles in it so far so I'm not being brutal with the engine. Also it's a UK car so it may have a European emissions map.

The car is a July build, it has V30.0.2 installed. At the end of my journey I tried to assess lag. In 4th/5th/6th from low revs (1,000 or 2,000) and the throttle shut, when I I apply about half throttle the lag seems to be around 0.5 sec, for sure I get a turbo pull, I haven't tried exceeding 3,300 rpm when doing this yet, maybe I'll get a much bigger pull but the lag doesn't seem to be of the type described in this thread. It's early days yet, a few more days with the car are needed.

[RBBMWE46M3]

Originally Posted by Cobu

I am afraid that Ezantova is right. I pretty much got the "we cannot do anything here" response, and as soon as we receive the fix I'll let you know. He also said that more people should complain since that way BMW may react quicker. I can't believe they expect owners to keep complaining and looking for the fix - it's like, sorry we can't fix the problem we introduced in the first place but keep bugging someone and keep paying for the car and everything will be fine ... I Am in the meantime going to call BMW NA "again" and bitch about this crap. Bottom line - if I don't see a fix in the next couple of weeks either BMW NA or the f'n service manager at the dealership can have the car.

On a less emotional note: it seems like everybody's good work (calling BMW NA and visiting dealerships) is paying off - at least they don't blow us off anymore. I did argue w/my SA though to put in some better verbiage in the disposition papers but was not successful. It really pissed me off when I read the last line which pretty much said - vehicle performs as per design

+1

You know what else just amazes me, is everyone in the BMW circle (or should I say circus) from the BMWNA lady to the service department to the engineers I rode with say when I ask if there are any other complaints about lag is..."no your the first"

[paltomare]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

+1

You know what else just amazes me, is everyone in the BMW circle (or should I say circus) from the BMWNA lady to the service department to the engineers I rode with say when I ask if there are any other complaints about lag is..."no your the first"

+1
I feel like I'm in the Matrix. It would be refreshing to find someone at BMW who was sincere.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by tyler9595

DONT TEASE ME BRO!! DONT TEASE ME!!

Haven't read anything of substinance yet today from any new posts, but I saw this and had to say that's hilarious.

[iScream]

Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3

+1

You know what else just amazes me, is everyone in the BMW circle (or should I say circus) from the BMWNA lady to the service department to the engineers I rode with say when I ask if there are any other complaints about lag is..."no your the first"

The conspiratorial side of me would like to think that they are coached to say that, but I think the truth is something much more innocuous. Plain and simple, they cannot afford to be as passionate about any one model of car as we are about our own, and so even if you are 100% sure someone else has talked to that same rep, they probably won't remember, UNLESS and until a bulletin comes out from BMWNA. They get a million vague complaints about bumps and rattles every day, so to them, unless there's a bulletin, you're the first.

I got the exact same shit when my fuel pump went bad. Actually, before it went bad. I read about it online and called to say I was worried it might be going out. At the time, I was "the first" and so there was officially nothing to worry about. Weeks later, boom, I'm pushing the SOS button on the shoulder of the on-ramp. A few weeks after that, suddenly everyone at BMW was very knowledgeable about the fuel pumps and their back-order status, etc. Why? Not because of my case, at least not entirely -- you see, I could have been a fluke. I was suddenly no longer "the first" because there was a bulletin.

One more thing. This 335i is my first BMW, and let me tell you, at the time I bought it, I had spent half my life wanting a BMW. I knew, from friends' experiences, that there were some service/warranty/reliability issues, and goofy stuff with electrical components and computers, even 10-15 years ago. I was pissed when my fuel pump went bad, but my negative feelings were erased about 50 miles after my car was fixed. I expect SOME problems, but what really disgusts me about my BMW experience so far is the almost comical levels of revisionism BMW has ingrained into its entire community, for the purpose of maintaining the exclusivity and perceived quality of its brand image. (I don't blame my sales rep or SA, because to me they are pawns in BMW's culture of obfuscation.) But you see, I wanted the car not because BMW's advertising had convinced me it was a flawless luxury car that would make other people envy me; I wanted it because I knew that when it was properly functioning, it could provide an amazing driving experience. BMW could stand to lose a little bit of the NSA-style doublespeak, and be a little more upfront when QA issues start arising. My 3-yr lease terminates in a year, and I don't know yet if my first BMW will be my last, but how they ultimately deal with this 29.2 issue will probably be a major factor in that decision. And so far, they've dug a really big hole for themselves.

[Firepriest]

Some interesting information from SAE paper 2007-01-1560 on the N54 engine.

[Cobu]

Originally Posted by iScream

The conspiratorial side of me would like to think that they are coached to say that, but I think the truth is something much more innocuous. Plain and simple, they cannot afford to be as passionate about any one model of car as we are about our own, and so even if you are 100% sure someone else has talked to that same rep, they probably won't remember, UNLESS and until a bulletin comes out from BMWNA. They get a million vague complaints about bumps and rattles every day, so to them, unless there's a bulletin, you're the first.

I got the exact same shit when my fuel pump went bad. Actually, before it went bad. I read about it online and called to say I was worried it might be going out. At the time, I was "the first" and so there was officially nothing to worry about. Weeks later, boom, I'm pushing the SOS button on the shoulder of the on-ramp. A few weeks after that, suddenly everyone at BMW was very knowledgeable about the fuel pumps and their back-order status, etc. Why? Not because of my case, at least not entirely -- you see, I could have been a fluke. I was suddenly no longer "the first" because there was a bulletin.

One more thing. This 335i is my first BMW, and let me tell you, at the time I bought it, I had spent half my life wanting a BMW. I knew, from friends' experiences, that there were some service/warranty/reliability issues, and goofy stuff with electrical components and computers, even 10-15 years ago. I was pissed when my fuel pump went bad, but my negative feelings were erased about 50 miles after my car was fixed. I expect SOME problems, but what really disgusts me about my BMW experience so far is the almost comical levels of revisionism BMW has ingrained into its entire community, for the purpose of maintaining the exclusivity and perceived quality of its brand image. (I don't blame my sales rep or SA, because to me they are pawns in BMW's culture of obfuscation.) But you see, I wanted the car not because BMW's advertising had convinced me it was a flawless luxury car that would make other people envy me; I wanted it because I knew that when it was properly functioning, it could provide an amazing driving experience. BMW could stand to lose a little bit of the NSA-style doublespeak, and be a little more upfront when QA issues start arising. My 3-yr lease terminates in a year, and I don't know yet if my first BMW will be my last, but how they ultimately deal with this 29.2 issue will probably be a major factor in that decision. And so far, they've dug a really big hole for themselves.

+ 1,000
and by the way - BMW NA is not going to do a deadly squawk about this issue. All they do is document your "personal preference for the way the car feels". At least that was the impression I got from a super irritating and ignorant BMW NA Customer Rep - (Jarrod ext 6265) who conveniently "heard" about turbo lag rumors on internet !!! They must really take us for idiots there. His monkey trained, parrot sounding answers "car performs per spec .. car performs per spec .. " to everything I said made me wanna drive the car to f'n dealer and set if on fire.

It is also interesting that BMW NA knows nothing about s/w v31 or its release dates and neither does my SA. If that trully is the case - there is only one way out of this situation - a law suit.

This will be my last BMW.

[mistermojorizin]

i kinda expected this from bmw. before i bought a new car i really hoped that toyota honda or nissan would come out with a fast car with a stickshift. but that didn't happen. so my choices were mitsu/subaru, american crap or german crap. I already dealt with american crap (corvette), and i didn't wanna go for an econobox (mitsu/subie) so twin turbo it was - no lag they said.

[iScream]

Originally Posted by Firepriest

Some interesting information from SAE paper 2007-01-1560 on the N54 engine.

would love to see that same SAE test run on 29.2.

Although it kinda looks like a conceptual graph, rather than one that was actually generated by a 335i.

[Firepriest]

Originally Posted by iScream

would love to see that same SAE test run on 29.2.

Although it kinda looks like a conceptual graph, rather than one that was actually generated by a 335i.

The paper goes through all the concepts and theories behind how and what they did with the turbo control and fuel/spark management in order to get the performance out of the engine. I found it interesting, and possibly useful the cause of eliminating lag, that the engineers that designed the engine intended on keeping the waste gates closed at idle in order to reduce the turbo lag. Then 29.2 came out and keeps the waste gates open at idle to reduce waste gate rattling noise. This is just proof that the engineers at BMW knew that keeping the waste gates open at idle would introduce lag.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Firepriest

The paper goes through all the concepts and theories behind how and what they did with the turbo control and fuel/spark management in order to get the performance out of the engine. I found it interesting, and possibly useful the cause of eliminating lag, that the engineers that designed the engine intended on keeping the waste gates closed at idle in order to reduce the turbo lag. Then 29.2 came out and keeps the waste gates open at idle to reduce waste gate rattling noise. This is just proof that the engineers at BMW knew that keeping the waste gates open at idle would introduce lag.

Exactly. Note that they also acknowledge in increase in fuel efficiency along with the increase in response. This correlates well with those who have noted a decrease in fuel efficiency (i.e mpg) along with a decrease in response (i.e lag)...

[holo777]

Wow, that graph rocks (except for the showing why we are screwed). Its probably a straight up representation of what has happened. The solid line is pre 29.2 and the dotted one is after.