[techlogik]

Originally Posted by Iwantm3

I've installd my HPF yesterday and that was a big pain in the ass so much trimming , however AMS and HELIX probably require as much , HPF is very nice but I wouldn't mind AMS or HELIX either, top 3 fmic's for sure , now I wouldn't doubt BIG TOM either and if you have a little time on your hands that's probably the best bang for the buck, fuck the haters, it looks great and performs great.

CXRacing is the better bang for the buck. IC is $175 shipped to your house in the US.

Plumbing/connectors, another $100...you could pay somebody 3hrs labor at $90/hr and be $550 approx. into the entire thing. Still less than any of the big name ICs and it will perform worst case, the same, and likely better than the other big guys.

But, hey, if it is shiny, and claims to be plug-n-play and a superior design for the N54 and cost $900...then go for it...I don't care what people do with their own money.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by techlogik

CXRacing is the better bang for the buck. IC is $175 shipped to your house in the US.

Plumbing/connectors, another $100...you could pay somebody 3hrs labor at $90/hr and be $550 approx. into the entire thing. Still less than any of the big name ICs and it will perform worst case, the same, and likely better than the other big guys.

But, hey, if it is shiny, and claims to be plug-n-play and a superior design for the N54 and cost $900...then go for it...I don't care what people do with their own money.

LOL, not to be a dick, but it was 1100 for mine.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Is this even a question? HPF is second to NO ONE in the BMW world. The Helix fmic is great, but the question is....do you want the BEST fmic?

What makes hpf better? FYI I designed the helix and would really like to debate you on this subject from an engineering standpoint! I have not seen one datalog that shows the Hpf as more efficient than the helix in regards to temp drop or the ability to thwart heatsoak over multiple gears. You live close enough that I would even offer to do back to back testing on YOUR car same day same everything else you can run the laptop to eliminate any BS. I'll do all of the swaps, free dyno and road testing as well as on road videos using our forward looking infrared camera that shows just how the ic is working under load. Please don't turn this into a tuner war rather let's get the facts(not opinions) out and talk about them in an intelligent manner.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Correct you are my friend, Those huge fmic's also block the radiator more than the HPF fmic does, which can result in higher water temps...which translates into higher oil temps which this car is already plagued from...why would you block the radiator from keeping water temps down? If it translates into higher oil temps and your car goes into limp mode because you were running it too hard.....are you gonna be able to use those couple of extra hp you gained from the fmic if you are in limp mode? To me, mods arent only about a number, its about functionality, USEABLE numbers, and most of all....safety.

FYI the Helix is fully exposed and takes up the entire lower bumper opening, it is not in any way blocked by the front bumper. Also the helix only blocks the lowest 2.5" of the radiator and withover 300 units sold and on the road we have never had 1 complaint of any adverse effects on the cars cooling system and these units are in use on cars that regularly see the road course and endurance racing events! Lastly our custom core features rounded bullnose bars that allow less resistance as the ambient air enters the core through to the radiator.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Iwantm3

I've installd my HPF yesterday and that was a big pain in the ass so much trimming , however AMS and HELIX probably require as much , HPF is very nice but I wouldn't mind AMS or HELIX either, top 3 fmic's for sure , now I wouldn't doubt BIG TOM either and if you have a little time on your hands that's probably the best bang for the buck, fuck the haters, it looks great and performs great.

No trimming necessary on the helix

[Dj_Frost]

HPF or AMS

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

What makes hpf better? FYI I designed the helix and would really like to debate you on this subject from an engineering standpoint! I have not seen one datalog that shows the Hpf as more efficient than the helix in regards to temp drop or the ability to thwart heatsoak over multiple gears. You live close enough that I would even offer to do back to back testing on YOUR car same day same everything else you can run the laptop to eliminate any BS. I'll do all of the swaps, free dyno and road testing as well as on road videos using our forward looking infrared camera that shows just how the ic is working under load. Please don't turn this into a tuner war rather let's get the facts(not opinions) out and talk about them in an intelligent manner.

I would love to do this testing with you. PM some times and I will see if we can work something out. I am all for actual data, I am going on HPF design video. I said the Helix is a great kit, I just think that end tanks could be improved as well as the stepped design. I think the flow rate could be improved and the frontal area could smaller. The HPF has a smaller face and its still being blocked by the bumper, which is why im getting the M3 front bumper soon. I also think that there is some radiator blockage which reduce radiator performance IMO. These are all speculations I have, so I would love to clear this up.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

FYI the Helix is fully exposed and takes up the entire lower bumper opening, it is not in any way blocked by the front bumper. Also the helix only blocks the lowest 2.5" of the radiator and withover 300 units sold and on the road we have never had 1 complaint of any adverse effects on the cars cooling system and these units are in use on cars that regularly see the road course and endurance racing events! Lastly our custom core features rounded bullnose bars that allow less resistance as the ambient air enters the core through to the radiator.

Show me a picture of it installed and no bumper coverage.

[Topless///M]

I agree and think the HPF, Helix, and AMS units are the best, but I'm glad I chose the Helix as it's taller and fits the lower grill area perfectly. The top of it ends right where no more air can get to it when looking up closely in that grill area. Yeah, the entire face is not blocked as some think, the top is still exposed to air just not as much as the mid section. If anything the bottom charge row is blocked a little like all others.

It's not too high where it blocks the radiator cause only the front is stepped higher plus the kidney grills is where most of the cooling air is coming from for the radiator.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I would love to do this testing with you. PM some times and I will see if we can work something out. I am all for actual data, I am going on HPF design video. I said the Helix is a great kit, I just think that end tanks could be improved as well as the stepped design. I think the flow rate could be improved and the frontal area could smaller. The HPF has a smaller face and its still being blocked by the bumper, which is why im getting the M3 front bumper soon. I also think that there is some radiator blockage which reduce radiator performance IMO. These are all speculations I have, so I would love to clear this up.

Once the weather warms let's shoot to testing, let's say march! Have you looked at the new end tank design? From an engineering standpoint you want a large front ambient face that is exposed to ambient air, the helix maximizes this area! As far as radiator blockage our adding the rounded bars helps from airflow through the core standpoint,theair exiting the backside of the core through to the radiator is cooler than the radiator fluid so there is still a temperature differential allowing this air to still work to cool the coolant!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

You can see how it takes up all available ambient face in the bumper opening!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Once the weather warms let's shoot to testing, let's say march! Have you looked at the new end tank design? From an engineering standpoint you want a large front ambient face that is exposed to ambient air, the helix maximizes this area! As far as radiator blockage our adding the rounded bars helps from airflow through the core standpoint,theair exiting the backside of the core through to the radiator is cooler than the radiator fluid so there is still a temperature differential allowing this air to still work to cool the coolant!

I will hopefully have upgraded turbos and meth by then. I dont know how it will affect the comparo. But March sounds great. Im shooting for 500whp. If Helix is better you will see my HPF go in the for sale section the very next day. I understand your point about the radiator, I just think the design of the hpf fmic is better. Either way I will have the best fmic on the market bc I do agree these are the top 2 on the market. Alex will let you know I was very interested in the fmic and the turbo setup but I am waiting on the turbos til the first quarter of next year.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

You can see how it takes up all available ambient face in the bumper opening!

WITH the front bumper on, That is not whats exposed to ambient air. The bumper reduces what is shown in this picture.

[Iwantm3]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

No trimming necessary on the helix

Cool, nice fmic no doubt about it , no one wanted to work with me on the price unf.

[momstmg78]

I paid $855. Shipped to the door for my hpf about four weeks ago.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by momstmg78

I paid $855. Shipped to the door for my hpf about four weeks ago.

was it black anodized? And was it on a group buy?

[pits200]

Originally Posted by momstmg78

I paid $855. Shipped to the door for my hpf about four weeks ago.

Where did you get it for $855 if you don't mind telling.

[Iwantm3]

Diego at Lutz performance

[pits200]

Ya, I was quoted $875 by him for the HPF.. Was it some kind of group sale or other.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by **335i**

i saw that hpf install bolt on and looks nice and real not too big and not to high as most air goes from lower grilles, and as other ic are very high and the bumper and the support blocks majority of the intercooler top and bottom and HPF ic looks really good designed

Oh no, it is one of the largest cores out there.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Oh no, it is one of the largest cores out there.

I think he meant the frontal area but yes you are correct, total area is very large.

[Imperator]

For intercoolers like the HPF, Forge and others that use the OEM charge pipe and C-clip junctions, I'm curious if there is any credence to the theory of restriction, turbulence or inefficiencies by using the factory accordion joints and reduced diameter of the interconnects.

A good number of E9x-purposed intercooler kits eliminate these factory charge pipe connections through their own interconnects. The ETS 5" FMIC, albeit on the small side, promotes the elimination of those areas of "restriction" by changing the angle of the cold-side outlet and including its own aluminum charge pipe.

I know it's optional, but I'm curious why HPF chose to retain the OEM charge pipe interconnects if those areas are indeed restrictive or inefficient.