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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Oil Life Monitor Programmed to Stop at 186,000 Miles - UPDATE 7/2016



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      10-21-2014, 01:15 PM   #89
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you can write to the entire DME, so it could be fixed. the software would need disassembled to find it though.

the ECU controls the service interval. the cluster is basically just a display.

I wonder if this affects the 328i? they have a different DME and presumably different software.
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      10-21-2014, 02:21 PM   #90
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Like I told hassmachine in a PM, I've moved on from it and don't care anymore. This is so stupid to me that I've decided BMW can sell their cars to non-enthusiasts and I'll move to their competitor. I recently got a service eval for my alignment service a week or two ago. I brought the issue back up in my response to the survey. They emailed me and said they'll call me. We'll see were that goes.
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      10-21-2014, 02:36 PM   #91
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yeah, I agree it's extremely stupid. I just think that we as a community can come up with a fix, it's not an impossible problem. it's basically going to be a 1 byte change, the problem is finding that byte among a 2.5mb file.

BMW should fix it but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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      10-21-2014, 02:40 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
you can write to the entire DME, so it could be fixed. the software would need disassembled to find it though.

the ECU controls the service interval. the cluster is basically just a display.

I wonder if this affects the 328i? they have a different DME and presumably different software.
Lol, well, that would be an easy fix for me!
(328i)
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      10-21-2014, 04:27 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
yeah, I agree it's extremely stupid. I just think that we as a community can come up with a fix, it's not an impossible problem. it's basically going to be a 1 byte change, the problem is finding that byte among a 2.5mb file.

BMW should fix it but I wouldn't hold my breath.
It's nice to try; I get the engineering challenge. I'd love to particpate normally, but BMW has failed with this as far as customer relations has gone, so helping them with the fix does not have my interest. Like I said, you'd expect something like this from GM and not BMW. But hey, Cadillacs now drive better than BMWs...
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      10-21-2014, 05:24 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
It's nice to try; I get the engineering challenge. I'd love to particpate normally, but BMW has failed with this as far as customer relations has gone, so helping them with the fix does not have my interest. Like I said, you'd expect something like this from GM and not BMW. But hey, Cadillacs now drive better than BMWs...
Modern BMW, for my wants, has completely shit the bed. I got into bmw's for awesome NA engines, rwd, reasonable weight for the practicality, manual trans in a practical car, good steering feel, and a reasonable long term ownership proposition. Nothing they sell today remotely has my interest.

Nor is there an alternative. Modern caddy is absolutely a better driving experience than modern BMW, but they're still shit compared to what BMW used to be.

My last 7 cars were bmw's. 3 of them purchased from BMW, 2 of them new. I will not be buying another.

That said, this issue isn't really why. This is an annoyance that I suspect we'll figure a way around eventually. No car is perfect, I accept that so long as there's fixes for the short comings. It's the complete about face in corporate values that has me out.

So, yeah. I'll just be maintaining and upgrading my fleet of older BMWs. Of course, the way they've been headed they'll probably drop part support at some point
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      10-21-2014, 09:08 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Modern BMW, for my wants, has completely shit the bed. I got into bmw's for awesome NA engines, rwd, reasonable weight for the practicality, manual trans in a practical car, good steering feel, and a reasonable long term ownership proposition. Nothing they sell today remotely has my interest.

Nor is there an alternative. Modern caddy is absolutely a better driving experience than modern BMW, but they're still shit compared to what BMW used to be.

My last 7 cars were bmw's. 3 of them purchased from BMW, 2 of them new. I will not be buying another.

That said, this issue isn't really why. This is an annoyance that I suspect we'll figure a way around eventually. No car is perfect, I accept that so long as there's fixes for the short comings. It's the complete about face in corporate values that has me out.

So, yeah. I'll just be maintaining and upgrading my fleet of older BMWs. Of course, the way they've been headed they'll probably drop part support at some point
I'll not argue the point about comparing the Caddy to older BMWs; older BMWs would win the day against new BMWs too, so maybe it's a moot point? But from what I can tell the ATS and (maybe - not driven the new one) the CTS are the best we can get for a pure drivers car at a reasonable price and not all M'd (V'd) up. I understand the oil life monitor issue isn't yours, but it sure is mine. When a car company can't even give the time of day to an owner for the past 26 years and a combined mileage of 684,000 miles from 3 cars, and treated me with no effort for an explanation, then I certainly can return the favor.
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      10-28-2014, 10:25 AM   #96
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i think people reading this will really think twice about getting another car from bmw. bmw should really show up for this issue and solve it, no if's and but's...
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      11-01-2014, 04:56 PM   #97
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This issue will eventually be fixed, BMW will issue a TSB (on a customer complaint bases reprogram....) and we will all get our cars software updated for free, along with all our custom coding erased.

Wait, I just woke up from a dream.

But joking aside, once more cars have this problem, and they start getting bad PR they will have to address it.

I'm at 148k right now, and I'm not looking forward to it.

Everyone on this thread should post this on BMW NA Facebook, take it to the media, etc.

Next on 20/20 how BMW programs your car to expire so you can purchase a new one.
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      11-06-2014, 08:54 AM   #98
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I truly do not see this as an issue.
At that age, you should be changing the oil every 7K miles.
Also, it is not that difficult to code out the oil service intervals. Any advance coder can do it. Having said that, you will have to rely on your calculation to see when 7K is over so you get the oil changed!

Here in UK, we guys tend to change oil every 7-10K when car reaches 80K miles. And in all honesty that is better than having troubles with your beamers.
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      11-06-2014, 11:15 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
I truly do not see this as an issue.
At that age, you should be changing the oil every 7K miles.
Also, it is not that difficult to code out the oil service intervals. Any advance coder can do it. Having said that, you will have to rely on your calculation to see when 7K is over so you get the oil changed!

Here in UK, we guys tend to change oil every 7-10K when car reaches 80K miles. And in all honesty that is better than having troubles with your beamers.
1) in a car with no dip stick, it's absolutely critical to have the electronic dip stick continue to function. Oil leaks and burns, particularly at that mileage, and you need to know how much is in the engine to properly maintain your oil level.

2) explain the logic behind why more frequent oil change intervals are needed at higher mileage?
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      11-06-2014, 12:02 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
1) in a car with no dip stick, it's absolutely critical to have the electronic dip stick continue to function. Oil leaks and burns, particularly at that mileage, and you need to know how much is in the engine to properly maintain your oil level.

2) explain the logic behind why more frequent oil change intervals are needed at higher mileage?
1) yes it can still be checked. You will be taking out the oil history from the service menu only.

2) Do your research. If you search 'BMW maintenance schedules' you will get a lot of stuff.

Good luck!
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      11-06-2014, 12:15 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
1) yes it can still be checked. You will be taking out the oil history from the service menu only.

2) Do your research. If you search 'BMW maintenance schedules' you will get a lot of stuff.

Good luck!
1) clearly you didn't read this thread. After 300,000 km, when the condition based service fails, it makes the electronic dipstick inaccurate.

2) funny you should mention, I wrote said thread for the e46 M3:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=190111

Nor have I ever read a such a thread with changing intervals at higher mileages. Nor have I ever heard anyone reputable claim such a thing.
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      11-06-2014, 12:28 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
1) clearly you didn't read this thread. After 300,000 km, when the condition based service fails, it makes the electronic dipstick inaccurate.

2) funny you should mention, I wrote said thread for the e46 M3:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=190111

Nor have I ever read a such a thread with changing intervals at higher mileages. Nor have I ever heard anyone reputable claim such a thing.
Perhaps I did not read the whole thread however I am under the impression that OP is referring to quality of life and not quantity of oil.
On the basis of oil quality and humidity in it, CBS calculates oil change indication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Yes, you read that correctly. On the E90 (at least for my 2006 325i) the CBS oil service indicator (oil life monitor) is programmed to stop working after 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles). The system is programmed to stop processing the oil quality data provided by the oil quality/oil level sensor that is in the oil pan. If you are not familiar with the CBS oil life monitor system, the sensor that determines the level of the oil in the engine also measures the quality of the oil though a practice of measuring the dielectric of the oil.
It cannot stop measuring the oil quantity. And if you have E91 with electronic dipstick, then you should now that checking the oil level works separately to oil service indication. OP is referring to oil service schedule going faulty after that miles.


Now coming to point 2, I guess you should search some big names in BMW service history. Will give you a hint. Mike Miller!
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      11-06-2014, 12:51 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Perhaps I did not read the whole thread however I am under the impression that OP is referring to quality of life and not quantity of oil.
On the basis of oil quality and humidity in it, CBS calculates oil change indication.



It cannot stop measuring the oil quantity. And if you have E91 with electronic dipstick, then you should now that checking the oil level works separately to oil service indication. OP is referring to oil service schedule going faulty after that miles.


Now coming to point 2, I guess you should search some big names in BMW service history. Will give you a hint. Mike Miller!
I think you need to spend some time reading more throughly on both counts.

1) IF YOU READ THIS THREAD, you will see that it also fails to read quantity successfully after the 300,000 km switch.

2) if you read mike miller more carefully, you'll see that while he does recomend more frequent oil changes than BMW (and 1200 mile break in services), he does not recomend increasing oil change frequency as mileage increases.


I actually had many conversations with mike miller while writing that thread
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      11-06-2014, 12:59 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I think you need to spend some time reading more throughly on both counts.

1) IF YOU READ THIS THREAD, you will see that it also fails to read quantity successfully after the 300,000 km switch.

2) if you read mike miller more carefully, you'll see that while he does recomend more frequent oil changes than BMW (and 1200 mile break in services), he does not recomend increasing oil change frequency as mileage increases.


I actually had many conversations with mike miller while writing that thread
I wish I had the time bud!


And no comment on no 2 I have just highlighted and would question why not frequent oil change on high mileages
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      11-06-2014, 01:17 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
I wish I had the time bud!


And no comment on no 2 I have just highlighted and would question why not frequent oil change on high mileages
Reasons to not do more frequent oil changes (prefaced by saying that I do them more often than BMW suggests by 2x):
1) oil is more acidic for the first couple hundred of miles, which can age components
2) Oil is thicker for the first couple hundred miles, so you're not operating at the viscosity they necessarily designed for (E.g. TWS sheers from a 60 weight to a 50 weight over the first couple hundred miles, then stays constant for a LONG time
3) needs time/waste/cost/effort

Changing oil more frequently is not only better, even ignoring cost/time/effort/waste.

Beyond that, there's other stuff going on in this thread, too-- like have the car display error messages when you get in the car, even after you code out the beeping and error on exit. That distracts from noticing real issues.

Mostly, though, it's just an incredibly dumb issue to exist in the first place.
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      11-06-2014, 02:59 PM   #106
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I find it funny how people unfamiliar with the issue think it is simple to "program out" the OCI. Apparently it's not, because BMW hasn't done it. If it was easy, BMW would have had the software code ready to fix the issue. BMW USA opened a PUMA case for my car in August 2013. It's now November of 2014. No fix.

To provide an executive summary for makkan00:

At 300,000KM (186,000 miles) the CBS (ECU) is programmed to stop using the oil quality data from the oil sensor, which then makes the algorithm that calculates the OCI go defunct. The oil change after 186,000 miles will allow the OCI to be reset, but not at the maximum mileage it usually calculates (Mine usually set the OCI at around 17,500 miles). Then next change after that, the OCI resets only to 0 (zero). It was at this point my e-dipstick started behaving erratically and reporting oil level differently than it did for the first 212,000 miles. It is my contention that once the oil quality data is not used and the algorithm goes defunct, it affects the part of the software (code) that calculates the oil level. THIS IS THE POINT I’VE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE BMW UNDERSTAND.

If shorter oil changes are better for high-mileage engines (I'll not debate that) then BMW could have simply programmed the algorithm to start shortening the oil change interval for higher mileage engines to a set milage of 7,500, but that is not what BMW did.
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      11-06-2014, 03:05 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Reasons to not do more frequent oil changes (prefaced by saying that I do them more often than BMW suggests by 2x):
1) oil is more acidic for the first couple hundred of miles, which can age components
2) Oil is thicker for the first couple hundred miles, so you're not operating at the viscosity they necessarily designed for (E.g. TWS sheers from a 60 weight to a 50 weight over the first couple hundred miles, then stays constant for a LONG time
3) needs time/waste/cost/effort

Changing oil more frequently is not only better, even ignoring cost/time/effort/waste.

Beyond that, there's other stuff going on in this thread, too-- like have the car display error messages when you get in the car, even after you code out the beeping and error on exit. That distracts from noticing real issues.

Mostly, though, it's just an incredibly dumb issue to exist in the first place.
Thanks for understanding the issues I've written about. You get it.

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      11-06-2014, 09:47 PM   #108
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I think its a big problem, what if you have a engine that burns a little oil before changes? Without a real dipstick and a inaccurate electronic one, your pretty much ******.

I'm surprised BMW hasn't done anything about this yet.

Yes the chime must be super annoying but the dipstick issue is much more serious.
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      11-07-2014, 04:55 AM   #109
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So not to drag this on, but I'll give you the recent example of why I think the e-dipstick gets inaccurate once the mileage reaches past 186,000 miles and the oil life monitor no longer works.

In late September (just two months ago) the e-dipstick was reading 3/4 quart low. When it gets to that level, I throw a quart oil bottle in the trunk in preparation of adding it when the +1QT notification comes up. On Sept. 28th when refueling at a gas station, I turned off the engine and the +1 QT notification came up (261,879 miles). I added the quart of oil after fueling up. I checked the oil level about 10 minutes later (we were on a road trip that Sunday) and it read full - all good! On Wednesday morning, Oct. 1st, after returning from the road trip Monday night, I checked the oil level on my way to work (like I do every frickin day now) and after only 655 miles since I added the quart of oil, the e-dipstick was already reporting the engine was 1/4 quart low (262,534 miles). At 263,272 miles on Oct. 6 it was now reading 1/2 quart low, just 738 miles later. So that's a 1/2 quart in just 1,393 miles. It went to 3/4 qt. low at 264,500 miles (Oct 12th).

I just changed the oil on Oct 18th. I took a reading on Wednesday this week and the e-dipstick is reporting 1/4 quart low already after about 1,600 miles (I don't have the exact mileage in front of me as I write this). So in the span of barely 7 weeks, the e-dipstick has reported oil consumption at the rate of 1 quart every 2,786 miles (the end of September -pre oil change) and a rate of oil consumption at 1 quart every 6,400 miles (after my last oil change on October 18th). So someone (at BMW) can explain it to me how this IS NOT TOTALY FUCKED UP.

Oh and with all this concentration on oil levels for the past four oil changes since I've discovered this issue, I totally have not been paying attention to my air filter change interval (about every 45,000 miles) and let my airfilter go to 72,000 miles since I changed it last in October 2012. But hey, I'll buy another BMW, sure. Buttheads...
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      11-16-2014, 12:54 PM   #110
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How about you get one of these 'mileage correction' guys around to wind your odometer back to say 100k miles. I would be interested if this would sort your problems short term until/if BMW will fix it. Obviously you shouldn't have to do this, and you will be in the minority for not doing it for fraudulent financial gain! My cars on 175k miles at minute and I'll be seriously irritated if this happens when I hit 186.
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