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      10-20-2010, 04:54 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
Good write up you forgot one thing...and its probably because your M3 is a DCT:

Naturally aspirated engine.

I'm a big stickler for pure driving experience...and 335i is ok...its not great, turbo charged engine is laggy and slow, doesn't rev up fast or drop down slow (My 1991 Honda accord drops and picks up faster...super responsive)...its steering does lack feel.

With 6 MT...335 doesn't feel natural, the torque is available in a non linear manner...and the lag...when you press down on the gas pedal to free rev, and try to play wit it...you realise the N54 is not as responsive as a naturally aspirated engine...even an average 330 is more responsive.

So the M3 is natrually aspirated, and with 6 MT woudl be a more pure driving experience.

But yea, the killer is the fuel cost...as someone clocking 30 K Kms a year + ...v8 is not neeeded, its a good weekend car; but here in North America....we do 1000 KM trips constantly....distances are far.
Err....i didn't say the M3 was less responsive - i said that at low revs in the lower gears on part throttle openings it does not feel as responsive as the 335i does ..........OBVIOUSLY if you drive the M3 as intended in the higher rpms it is much more responsive than the 335i. You state plenty of generic points about NA vs FI in your post which i find very patronising considering i own/have owned both these cars and and fully understand the characteristics of both engines.

I did learn something from your post though - that 'distances are far' - epic.
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      10-20-2010, 05:12 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by sarjoo View Post
There seem to be one of two solutions here, move to germany, or don't get the max out of the enjoying the car. I think option B will work for me more for now anyway

So you say the sound is amazing...but how much better as I find the 335i engine and exhause note is pretty darn good at all speeds, when the windows are down especially!

How does the M3 sound at low revs/low gears and at idle? The 335i I find sounds pretty average at standstill idle, but upon cold start up or at low revs is nice. The higher the revs go the nicer it gets.

I've been meaning to take a test drive for a while but the dealers themselves seem to be a barrier. On 2 occasions I've been let down where theyve said they'll call to arrange a car to test and never got the call. Maybe they think I'm not serious!!! lol You'd think a 335i is enough evidence that I might actually be a real buyer! I'll sort one out at some point though!
I tend to hang onto the gears longer in the M3 than i did in the 335i. If you drive the M3 and short shift in every gear the engine note is not that loud............hold onto the gears though (you do not have to be gunning it - just keep those revs rising) and the engine sound is far better than the 335i - at full rpm the sound is incredible especially through tunnels or through towns at night with the sound reverberating off the buildings!

Obviously you don't get the full effect by listening to a sound on a laptop but turn up to full volume and this will give you an idea at least.


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      10-20-2010, 08:13 PM   #91
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This is better than most of the comparos I have read online. Excellent work mate

I find the point about the low RPM 'pick-up' of the S65 interesting. Really sounds like you need to rev the balls outta the thing to have some fun.

I would also like to see a review where someone compared a tuned N54 to the S65...since the stock N54's greatest weakness is falling flat on its face past 6,000rpm. With a simple piggyback, the thing pulls all the way to 7,000rpm.
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      10-21-2010, 02:10 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
I find the point about the low RPM 'pick-up' of the S65 interesting. Really sounds like you need to rev the balls outta the thing to have some fun.
You would think so wouldn't you, but it's remarkably crisp on light throttle from about 2900 rpm, which arrives very quickly, even in a high gear.
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      10-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
You would think so wouldn't you, but it's remarkably crisp on light throttle from about 2900 rpm, which arrives very quickly, even in a high gear.
This is true, but to really feel instant power i find 5k+ to be needed. This is all subjective of course - the m3 at 3-5k is still faster than most cars on the road. How are you enjoying the new car Del?
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      10-21-2010, 03:04 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef View Post
This is better than most of the comparos I have read online. Excellent work mate

I find the point about the low RPM 'pick-up' of the S65 interesting. Really sounds like you need to rev the balls outta the thing to have some fun.

I would also like to see a review where someone compared a tuned N54 to the S65...since the stock N54's greatest weakness is falling flat on its face past 6,000rpm. With a simple piggyback, the thing pulls all the way to 7,000rpm.
Thank you for your comments. You dont have to 'rev the balls' out of the S65 - it will pull sweetly and strongly from lower rpm - the fact is though that what is considered 'thrashing' in most car engines is not so in the S65 - it was designed to be driven in this manner, that is the whole point of the engine - it comes alive when driven like this but is more than capable of pulling from low rpms if desired. The torque arrives 2000 rpm or so later than in the N54 but it is available for longer. I dont want to give the impression that the car is a slug in the lower rpms, it is not - but it is in the higher rpms that it truely shines.
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      10-21-2010, 04:20 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
Good write up you forgot one thing...and its probably because your M3 is a DCT:

Naturally aspirated engine.

I'm a big stickler for pure driving experience...and 335i is ok...its not great, turbo charged engine is laggy and slow, doesn't rev up fast or drop down slow (My 1991 Honda accord drops and picks up faster...super responsive)...its steering does lack feel.

With 6 MT...335 doesn't feel natural, the torque is available in a non linear manner...and the lag...when you press down on the gas pedal to free rev, and try to play wit it...you realise the N54 is not as responsive as a naturally aspirated engine...even an average 330 is more responsive.

So the M3 is natrually aspirated, and with 6 MT woudl be a more pure driving experience.

But yea, the killer is the fuel cost...as someone clocking 30 K Kms a year + ...v8 is not neeeded, its a good weekend car; but here in North America....we do 1000 KM trips constantly....distances are far.
I drive a 335i

And I disagree with every single point in your post.
I think your car has some faults...

I'm also a VTEC fanboi too
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      10-22-2010, 02:20 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
This is true, but to really feel instant power i find 5k+ to be needed. This is all subjective of course - the m3 at 3-5k is still faster than most cars on the road. How are you enjoying the new car Del?

On the whole I'm enjoying it Steve, but it's a strange beast, sometimes I drive it and it fits like a glove and blows me away and another time it gets on my tits.

I'm still struggling big time with the light steering at slower speeds and keep asking "WHY" did the M boys not just give it proper steering, but I won't labour that point anymore
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      10-23-2010, 03:56 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
On the whole I'm enjoying it Steve, but it's a strange beast, sometimes I drive it and it fits like a glove and blows me away and another time it gets on my tits.

I'm still struggling big time with the light steering at slower speeds and keep asking "WHY" did the M boys not just give it proper steering, but I won't labour that point anymore
Del, i also had a real problem with the low speed steering but over time i have got used to it - hopefully you will feel the same. Got back from a month in the UK yesterday without the car , couldnt wait to drive it again - used half a tank on the autobahn in 30 mins followed by some back roads, i have got to say that the more i drive it the more i love it - may even get another one next year (first time i would have ever bought the same car again)
As i have already said though i didn't enjoy it that much in the UK and would almost certainly not keep it if i was due to come back permanently.
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      10-23-2010, 05:11 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef
I find the point about the low RPM 'pick-up' of the S65 interesting. Really sounds like you need to rev the balls outta the thing to have some fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
You would think so wouldn't you, but it's remarkably crisp on light throttle from about 2900 rpm, which arrives very quickly, even in a high gear.
The engine of the M3 is very flexible. It pulls from 40mph in 6th gear. At 1,000rpm it pulls and there is no turbo lag. To do that in conjunction with having an almost flat torque curve for 5k and put out 414bhp at the top end is remarkable.

With the 'sport plus' engine map setting, the throttle response is immediate and linear, it makes the car such a joy to drive. When blipping the throttle, the revs rise and fall incredibly fast, almost race engine fast.

Every time I go out for a proper drive, I learn more about the car and enjoy it more. I would echo the low speed steering weight is a bit too light but when up to speed where the weight and feel matters, it is spot on.

I also wish the clutch was a bit heavier but perhaps I'm in the minority.
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      10-24-2010, 03:09 AM   #99
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Fantastic write up. I struggled to make the decision between an m3 and the 335. In the end went with the 335 (dct). I have to say I love it although I agree with your comments about the skipping and not giving confidence! My previous car was the audi tts which was very easy to drive fast. I am guessing that my own skill is lacing rather than the car.
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      10-26-2010, 11:11 PM   #100
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Nicely done!
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      10-27-2010, 02:12 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef Beef
I find the point about the low RPM 'pick-up' of the S65 interesting. Really sounds like you need to rev the balls outta the thing to have some fun.



The engine of the M3 is very flexible. It pulls from 40mph in 6th gear. At 1,000rpm it pulls and there is no turbo lag. To do that in conjunction with having an almost flat torque curve for 5k and put out 414bhp at the top end is remarkable.

With the 'sport plus' engine map setting, the throttle response is immediate and linear, it makes the car such a joy to drive. When blipping the throttle, the revs rise and fall incredibly fast, almost race engine fast.

Every time I go out for a proper drive, I learn more about the car and enjoy it more. I would echo the low speed steering weight is a bit too light but when up to speed where the weight and feel matters, it is spot on.

I also wish the clutch was a bit heavier but perhaps I'm in the minority.
Yes it is a clever engine Ant Man, one of my biggest worries coming from the 335i was missing the low end torque and although not as good, it is pretty dame close, what would have been nice is if we could select the heavier steering option, but not change the power map, I realise you can sort of do this through the M button, but then all other M button options are redundant.

Steve, I’m sure you’re right Mate, it doesn’t help that my M3 isn’t my everyday car and I jump it a car with proper steering for runs to work.
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      10-27-2010, 09:01 PM   #102
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very nice write up
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      10-28-2010, 02:24 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russtic View Post
Fantastic write up. I struggled to make the decision between an m3 and the 335. In the end went with the 335 (dct). I have to say I love it although I agree with your comments about the skipping and not giving confidence! My previous car was the audi tts which was very easy to drive fast. I am guessing that my own skill is lacing rather than the car.
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Nicely done!
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Originally Posted by NycE93M3 View Post
very nice write up
Thanks
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      01-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #104
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Absoultely outstanding review - well done and thanks!

I have exactly the same 335i and funnily enough have just bought exactly the same E90 M3! Having only owned the M3 for a couple of weeks your review was particularly interesting and absolutely mirror my thoughts on the two cars.

The M3 feels and sounds - special. Around town, in traffic, to and from work in a busy city environment my 335 is the better car. It feels noticeably lighter, reacts quickly and decisively and is a lovely everyday car, especially at low to mid RPM.

I haven't had the opportunity to get the M3 out in its element yet - but after your review I'm really looking forward to it and using the car to it's full potential.

Thanks again for the excellent two car review - outstanding writing.
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      01-08-2011, 06:34 AM   #105
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As others, thanks for the review, makes an interesting read. Better start saving for a M3 Saloon
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      01-09-2011, 02:09 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezkm3 View Post
Absoultely outstanding review - well done and thanks!

I have exactly the same 335i and funnily enough have just bought exactly the same E90 M3! Having only owned the M3 for a couple of weeks your review was particularly interesting and absolutely mirror my thoughts on the two cars.

The M3 feels and sounds - special. Around town, in traffic, to and from work in a busy city environment my 335 is the better car. It feels noticeably lighter, reacts quickly and decisively and is a lovely everyday car, especially at low to mid RPM.

I haven't had the opportunity to get the M3 out in its element yet - but after your review I'm really looking forward to it and using the car to it's full potential.

Thanks again for the excellent two car review - outstanding writing.
Thank you! Are you still in the break in period? Just curious as to why you havent had a chance to use the M3 to its 'potential' yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeboy View Post
As others, thanks for the review, makes an interesting read. Better start saving for a M3 Saloon
Thanks for your comment - its now 5 months since i took delivery of the car and i can honestly say i enjoy it even more now than i did when i wrote this review.............don't bother saving just rob a bank
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      02-07-2011, 05:08 AM   #107
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Superb write up!

Thanks!

I currently own a 5p plate 135 and I am contemplating the jump to an E92 M3.

The characteristics of the 135 stack up nicely against the 335 although you seemed to get 5mpg more in your 335 that I can manage in my 135 even with mostly motorway miles. Everything you have put across in this report makes me want an E92 even more now.
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      02-08-2011, 06:25 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russtic View Post
Fantastic write up. I struggled to make the decision between an m3 and the 335. In the end went with the 335 (dct). I have to say I love it although I agree with your comments about the skipping and not giving confidence! My previous car was the audi tts which was very easy to drive fast. I am guessing that my own skill is lacing rather than the car.
I too have a 335i and agree completely concerning the skipping and lack of confidence in the handling department. My previous E46 330ci was a far more composed car.

Regards
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      02-09-2011, 11:44 AM   #109
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Great write up, I am considering treating myself this summer by trading up to an M3.

I love my 335d but I keep looking on autotrader at M3's so I guess its an itch I need to scratch. I'll probably cry at the running costs and get rid after 12 months but I need to do it.
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      02-15-2011, 04:40 PM   #110
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excellent write up...i have officailyy decided to skip this generation m3 and wait for the next gen one..and finally fulfil a long waited dream to own an m3 someday ..
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