[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

1. It's considered a brand for old people. It just is, there's no ifs, ands, or buts, about it. On the way to dinner my wife said "I really like the color of the car, but isn't it mainly for old people?" That stigma will be there for our generation but may not for the next, that's really up to Cadillac and their marketing department to break. I don't think my 8 year old niece has any opinions on car brands and certainly doesn't think they're for the elderly.

This really hasn't been the case in years ( it was forever ), If anything Cadillac is a leader in performance and the exteriors are nice on the V's
but they have more to improve on the interiors for sure. It definitely was the old persons car forever but these days thats Buick & Lexus.

German cars still have the edge with the interiors but Caddy will beat them on reliability ( im talking after 75k miles, before that doesnt count ).
Even Jason Cammisa stated the new Dark Horse Stang is a better M4 than the actual M4 on the track and that BMW has lost its way a bit.

I guess it all depends on what your buying the car for, Interior / Exterior / Badge / Performance etc.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I sure as hell wouldn't pay $130K for a freaking Caddy, regardless of its performance.

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Yeah, the car is sweet but I'm turned off for 2 reasons: 1) It costs $130K!

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I would not pay $130k for one.

Gents, I strongly suggest you avert your eyes from Cadillac CELESTIQ price tag. Or profile views.

"Starting at LOW-$400K"
https://www.cadillac.com/electric/celestiq

I mean, what 'da f@%k?
Have they legalized cocaine in Michigan I we haven't heard about it?

Originally Posted by BlkGS

There is WILD differences.in build quality and materials in German cars. My G05 X5 was super nicer, everything felt great and was put together very very well (lots of really poor engineering designs.on it, but that's besides the point)..but the G90 i5 I had as a loaner? Total junk inside. Everything felt cheap. The X3 or 330i I had as loaners? Total crap, not at all luxurious and materials were worse than a mainstream domestic car. The new X3 is even worse.

I had similar impressions from recent 3-series and X3 loaners.
Baseline BMWs (1/2/3-series, X1/2/3) have always been of spartan in nature. Including occasionally plastic seats.
Higher end BMWs (6/7/8-series) interiors have always been of much higher quality.
BMW has (for some crazy reasons) treated all of it's i-series EVs as rolling Ikea furniture showrooms.
BMW has always treated ///M-cars the best: inside and out, the engine bay, suspension, etc.

For that reason alone I've standardized on shopping for ///M-cars exclusively, and go outside the brand for all other needs.

a

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Sad to say Cadillac is more like the BMW we grew up with than BMW is today.. Thats an awesome car!

Yeah, I was saying that 13 years ago when the ATS came out (vs. the F30), the ration of shit I got here on BimmerPost was quite humorous. "Yeah... but the interior sucks". Always the excuse, "theinteriorsucks".

My boss has a CT5 Blackwing. He frickin' loves it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Elderado82

Better have an air hose, because if not, that front end is going to be hell to dry after a wash. Beautiful car, by the way.

A leaf blower works way better.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Cadillac 's main problem is that they don't recognize that most German car buyers are buying the badge and the "flex". Caddy has been building V cars since like 04 that were better driving cars than the Germans and way more reliable... But people want the BMW badge, because "German cars are more money and so have to be better".

A big part of me thinks it's the naming convention. When you tell someone you have a CT5 V Blackwing, you will inevitably hear "cool my neighbor has one of those" and it will be a base 4 cylinder. If you tell someone you have an M5 or an RS7, people who don't know about cars will say "what's that?" and not just assume it's whatever car that they know about.

Personally I still think they need a Chevy version of this car at a more reasonable price point.

I'd argue the Chevy SS was that car (sans the compressor). It didn't sell.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

True.
That is EXACTLY how I think about Cadillac.
I have seen zero messaging from that brand to change my mind in the last 30+ years I've had BMWs. All Caddy-branded commercials are of SUVs for women. And maybe their boyfriends, but mostly for single women.

The people I actually see driving non-truck Caddys are all .. retirees. Or taxi/limo drivers in Escalades.
Marketing and brand perception for Caddy is well earned.



True, with an important clarification - Caddy had never stablished "V" as much of a brand.
Car guys, or 0.02% buying public, might know what it is. For the rest of the world it's just another letter in the Caddlic model naming letter soup.



To my eye, CTS-5V profile looks very similar to Audi RS7:
Attachment 3833025
Attachment 3833026




Nice car, though I would not buy it for any reason.
If I needed a fast, luxurious 4-door cruiser I would get a Lucid Air.

BTW, I don't believe the engines are the same.
- LT4 Supercharged 6.2L V8 engine is in a Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing or Escalade V.
- LT2 V8 (naturally aspirated, crossplane-crankshaft in Stingray and E-Ray), LT6 V8 (higher-revving, flat-plane-crankshaft in Z06), and the twin-turbo flat-plane-crankshaft LT7 V8 (ZR1).

a

P.S.: I had test driven a few Cadillacs in the past: CT4-something and CT5-something. Cars themselves were decent, but the interiors and ergonomics were 2nd rate. At best, they had shiny "piano-black" fingerprint magnet plastics all over the interior. At worst, interior parts were hard abrasive plastic, and were car rental quality cheap. Seats were decent, but not awesome.
P.P.S.: The only US-made cars I've ever purchased were Teslas. Cars are decent, performance/value proposition is awesome, but the interiors are cheap and sub-optimal. There is definitely a trend in US-designed cars not delivering on interior quality.

You must have missed the ATS commercials circa 2012.

The whole old man stigma went out long ago. Cadillac was originally a prestige brand that generally only old people could afford because generally old people have generated wealth due their duration on the planet. It takes time to become wealthy.

Then GM effed up and rebadged Chevys as Cadillacs during the 1980's. By the time Cadillac rebranded itself as a luxury performance brand in the early 2000's, BMW had moved on to the soft old man's car market. BMW went mainstream. All it sells are SUVs and POS ugly automatic 3-series. And stupidly expensive M cars.

[spazzyfry123]

I think Caddy has done a great job marketing themselves away from the "old man" moniker. I constantly see them on one of the three steps at the end of IMSA races.

I'm not well-versed in what is considered a "V" or a "Blackwing" on today's market, but I will say that when I see what I think is one my head snaps. These cars really don't photograph well, but I think they're stunning in person. I for one love that they more or less fly under the radar of what its true performance is.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'd argue the Chevy SS was that car (sans the compressor). It didn't sell.

The SS wasn't intended to sell. It has zero marketing, and it was a rebadge job to allow GM to meet their contractual obligations to the union at the Holden plant in Australia. They were only going to build so many to keep that line moving.

It's a shame too, because that was a great package. I wish I had bought a manual one at the time, but I had no need for a large sedan then.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The SS wasn't intended to sell. It has zero marketing, and it was a rebadge job to allow GM to meet their contractual obligations to the union at the Holden plant in Australia. They were only going to build so many to keep that line moving.

It's a shame too, because that was a great package. I wish I had bought a manual one at the time, but I had no need for a large sedan then.

Those SS's do look cool when people add all the Holden parts, They just failed to market the car and to regular people they probaly just thought it was a Malibu with Brembos hahah.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yeah, I was saying that 13 years ago when the ATS came out (vs. the F30), the ration of shit I got here on BimmerPost was quite humorous. "Yeah... but the interior sucks". Always the excuse, "theinteriorsucks".

My boss has a CT5 Blackwing. He frickin' loves it.

But does it have soft touch plastics where my pinky goes? hahah ( joke ).. Yeah I know what you mean.. I like a nice interior but performance is more important.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The SS wasn't intended to sell. It has zero marketing, and it was a rebadge job to allow GM to meet their contractual obligations to the union at the Holden plant in Australia. They were only going to build so many to keep that line moving.

It's a shame too, because that was a great package. I wish I had bought a manual one at the time, but I had no need for a large sedan then.

Me too. At the time of the fire sale I was driving 35,000 miles a year and just couldn't justify buying one and driving it some 20,000 miles a year at 18 MPG.

A friend of mine has a SS, manual, low miles, bought it during the sale. I'm jealous. And he also has a low-mile E36 4-door M3. He rarely drives either one. Sittin' on money he is.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Those SS's do look cool when people add all the Holden parts.

A guy two neighborhoods up from me did this, I see him on the road from time to time and always give him a thumbs up.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Those SS's do look cool when people add all the Holden parts, They just failed to market the car and to regular people they probaly just thought it was a Malibu with Brembos hahah.




But does it have soft touch plastics where my pinky goes? hahah ( joke ).. Yeah I know what you mean.. I like a nice interior but performance is more important.

If one goes as far back with BMW as I do, the idea of a car's interior was to enhance the driving experience, rather than be the experience. The mid 1970 to early 1990 BMWs are the example and pinnacle of interior design IMO. The 1980's E28 and E30 and even the 6 Coupe and 7 Sedan all followed that ethos, albeit with leather.

The ATS interior enhanced the driving experience. Clear gauges and good sightlines. Well-placed controls to help drive the car. Were the touch point materials S-class level? No, but hell, neither are the E46/E90/F30, let's all just be honest. I had an ATS as a loaner for a week and put 800 miles on it on my then 80-mile one way backroad commute, it handled better than my sport package E90 and way better than the F30 I had just a week after for a loaner when BMW was trying to figure out the 186,000-mile oil life monitor defunct issue. I put 800 miles on the F30 too. Both cars were automatics. The ATS was far ahead of the F30 in dynamics. But you know, theinteriorsucks.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If one goes as far back with BMW as I do, the idea of a car's interior was to enhance the driving experience, rather than be the experience. The mid 1970 to early 1990 BMWs are the example and pinnacle of interior design IMO. The 1980's E28 and E30 and even the 6 Coupe and 7 Sedan all followed that ethos, albeit with leather.

The ATS interior enhanced the driving experience. Clear gauges and good sightlines. Well-placed controls to help drive the car. Were the touch point materials S-class level, no, but hell, neither was the E46/E90/F30, let's all just be honest. I had an ATS as a loaner for a week and put 800 miles on it on my 80-mile one way backroad commute, it handled better than my sport package E90 and way better than the F30 I had just a week after for a loaner when BMW was trying to figure out the 186,000-mile oil life monitor defunct issue. I put 800 miles on the F30 too. Both cars were automatics. The ATS was far ahead of the F30 in dynamics. But you know, the interiorsucks.

Well said and agree 100%, Man I wish I still had my E30... I saw an article the other day showing the 850 interior stating this was peak BMW interior and it was so damn nice looking.

I liked my E90 better than my F30 and felt the interior quality of the F30 was a downgrade ( both had sport package ).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Well said and agree 100%, Man I wish I still had my E30... I saw an article the other day showing the 850 interior stating this was peak BMW interior and it was so damn nice looking.

I liked my E90 better than my F30 and felt the interior quality of the F30 was a downgrade ( both had sport package ).

Yeah, me too. I had my E30 from new for 18 years and 250,000 miles. I now wish I never sold it when I bought my E90. I so much wish BMW would do a real-close retro E30 (like Ford did with the S197 Mustang) and with an exact copy of the E30's dash. Bring the N52/ZF 6-speed out of retirement for it. It would be the perfect "2-door sedan". I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. BMW would easily sell a 100,000+ of them.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yeah, me too. I had my E30 from new for 18 years and 250,000 miles. I now wish I never sold it when I bought my E90. I so much wish BMW would do a real-close retro E30 (like Ford did with the S197 Mustang) and with an exact copy of the E30's dash. Bring the N52/ZF 6-speed out of retirement for it. It would be the perfect "2-door sedan". I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. BMW would easily sell a 100,000+ of them.

That would be awesome if they did a limited run, Would sell like mad for enthusiasts unfortunately we are not the target audience anymore..
My E90 was a 6 speed Sedan Sport 328i so the last of the N52 and it was fun, wasnt fast but was fun.

I currently daily drive a GR86 and it reminds me of my E30 when it comes to driving dynamics..
Light, great handling, not fast but quick enough and fun to ring out and drive.

[M3Sleeper]

I like having my M3 but I also like having a Cadillac around for the weekends and long trips with family.

I purchased a new Escalade Platinum Sport from my local dealer in 2023 and have since put 75,000 miles on it.

I can see myself when Im in my 60's driving one of these CTS V BW's

[Alfisti]

As a transplanted aussie it amazed me when the SS landed here as it was so bland compared to the SS back home. It never looked right.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

As a transplanted aussie it amazed me when the SS landed here as it was so bland compared to the SS back home. It never looked right.

Every time I see an HSV I get sad we didn't get THAT.

[Davil]

I think Cadillac should just embrace the look and call it the CT5 Butterface. Everything else is great butterface.

As for marketing, remember they are in F1 next year. That’s a substantial outlay and should hopefully end the old chap from Florida connection.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

As a transplanted aussie it amazed me when the SS landed here as it was so bland compared to the SS back home. It never looked right.

GM bean counters did some horrible things to Holden. Basically drove them out of business. Same to Opel/Vauxhall.

[Phillies8008]

Any car company being bought by Detroit is pretty much that company's death knell. Has there actually been a circumstance where it was successful?

All I can think of is JLR, Saab, Holden, etc. None of those companies were better off – if they even survived – for having been bought by a Big Three manufacturer. You'd think they'd get the hint, but here we are. Every CEO is convinced he/she has to make a big splash...

[Alfisti]

Holden survived way longer being owned by GM than it otherwise would have. You'd be absolutely stunned if you knew the hourly wages and salaries Australians make, the idea we can build anything is fantasty, our cost base is way too high.

In my industry, market research, the minimum wage for entry level, zero experience call centre interviewers is $36 an hr which translates to $72K per year with compulsory 10% pension on top of that. That's right off the street out of high school.