Fighting a misfire

ZGator · 12-02-2019, 01:04 PM

I have a misfire on cylinder 5 - combustion misfires 29D1.

Swapping ignition coil, and spark plug did not swap the misfire to other cylinder. Changed my valve cover gasket and Valvetronic/ESS sensor as I had a code with that too - still have the misfire

Next step I am assuming is the fuel injector -

Has anyone out there swapped fuel injectors - like is commonly done with ignition coils?

This is an N52 these fuel injectors have less issues with injectors than the N54 335s - and I assume they DO NOT HAVE TO BE CODED on the N52?

Also anybody have any luck cleaning them? I assume that is what they do with rebuilt ones that are now fairly cheap?

Joebie · 12-02-2019, 01:41 PM

Although injector issues on the N52 are rare, they are not unheard of.

Swapping them is a bit of a pain in the ass, but totally do-able. The sealing O-rings are really hard to pull out of the head sometimes. Hard to re-seat them too. But yeah with enough cussing you'll get it done.

They don't have to be coded. Simplicity is the beauty of the N52... just a good ol' port injected, naturally aspirated straight 6.

I don't know much about cleaning injectors so I can't help there, sorry. Some claim that Techron fuel system cleaner does provide some cleaning... its cheap at Wal-Mart so maybe worth a shot.

gbalthrop · 12-02-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

[328xi E90] I have a misfire on cylinder 5 - combustion misfires 29D1. Swapping ignition coil, and spark plug did not swap the misfire to other cylinder...Next step I am assuming is the fuel injector

Rather than immediately replacing/swapping parts, I would first want to understand the following:
1) At WHAT engine conditions (Load, RPM, Temp) does the "misfire" occur, based upon WHEN SES light appears, and Freeze Frame Data related to that 29D1 code?
2) Clear Code and obtain that data several times, to determine pattern if any.
3) When you swapped plugs, did you MEASURE plug gaps? Original plug gap was .040", and with age that gap increases. At .055" or so, random misfires occur at higher RPM/Load.
4) Did you note the brand & part# of coils & plugs when you swapped? Did BOTH the coils & plugs appear to be original?
5) What year is your vehicle & what is its mileage?
6) Did you closely examine the coil Connectors to make sure the sockets weren't pushed out of place, and that the Connectors (particularly #5) sockets made proper contact with coils when properly seated and reassembled? It is more likely that there is an electrical/ contact issue with Coil Connector #5 than there is an injector fault, particularly if the "misfire" is intermittent. Of course there could also be a connector/ wiring issue with injector #5, and the injector itself is fine.
7) Did you examine the coil boots and plug wells for any sign of oil in the plug well?

The following circuits are for 2008 & later 328xi model, and if you have earlier model, wiring may vary. Coil & Injector circuits are linked, and BOTH circuits are interactive so you can click on any BLUE component ID# and get more information on that component, such as "Installation Location" or "Connector View":
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/vBlJ2fy
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ection/vQegKNb

Please let us know what you find,
George

ZGator · 12-02-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joester

Although injector issues on the N52 are rare, they are not unheard of.

Swapping them is a bit of a pain in the ass, but totally do-able. The sealing O-rings are really hard to pull out of the head sometimes. Hard to re-seat them too. But yeah with enough cussing you'll get it done.

They don't have to be coded. Simplicity is the beauty of the N52... just a good ol' port injected, naturally aspirated straight 6.

I don't know much about cleaning injectors so I can't help there, sorry. Some claim that Techron fuel system cleaner does provide some cleaning... its cheap at Wal-Mart so maybe worth a shot.

Thank you for the confirmation - and tips to remove the fuel rail

I have just done the valve cover gasket - have not put back on cover so the fuel line is right there and I am familiar now with removing the connectors, and watched a couple DIY videos on replacing the fuel injectors and have confidence in doing the job, I still might do the swap but was a little worried about compromising the o rings.

I probably should have gotten some fuel system cleaner straight up - I might still do that, however I just bought a new rebuilt one, and send back the $37+core for a rebuilt injector if it happens to work.

ZGator · 12-02-2019, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Rather than immediately replacing/swapping parts, I would first want to understand the following:
1) At WHAT engine conditions (Load, RPM, Temp) does the "misfire" occur, based upon WHEN SES light appears, and Freeze Frame Data related to that 29D1 code?
2) Clear Code and obtain that data several times, to determine pattern if any.
3) When you swapped plugs, did you MEASURE plug gaps? Original plug gap was .040", and with age that gap increases. At .055" or so, random misfires occur at higher RPM/Load.
4) Did you note the brand & part# of coils & plugs when you swapped? Did BOTH the coils & plugs appear to be original?
5) What year is your vehicle & what is its mileage?
6) Did you closely examine the coil Connectors to make sure the sockets weren't pushed out of place, and that the Connectors (particularly #5) sockets made proper contact with coils when properly seated and reassembled? It is more likely that there is an electrical/ contact issue with Coil Connector #5 than there is an injector fault, particularly if the "misfire" is intermittent. Of course there could also be a connector/ wiring issue with injector #5, and the injector itself is fine.
7) Did you examine the coil boots and plug wells for any sign of oil in the plug well?

The following circuits are for 2008 & later 328xi model, and if you have earlier model, wiring may vary. Coil & Injector circuits are linked, and BOTH circuits are interactive so you can click on any BLUE component ID# and get more information on that component, such as "Installation Location" or "Connector View":
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/vBlJ2fy
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ection/vQegKNb

Please let us know what you find,
George

Thanks for the feedback! Here are your answers:

1) Original condition - happened right after I put my snow tires on - was jacking up each wheel to do so, after tire installation, the first attempt to start failed, then I have been having constant cylinder 5 misfires. I took it for a spin anyway hoping it would clear but it never did. Came home got the codes which showed misfire code AND Valvetronic plausibility. This is why I decided to bite the bullet and do my valve cover gasket (102k miles) since it was due and I did see a spot of oil on the eccentric valve sensor plug - wicking up from sensor - figured bingo that's it.
2) Did that, the misfire code prevails over all others - very consistent - takes about 10 seconds after starting to see it again, every time, usually along with 2E28 - DME - Ignition coil 5.
3) Did not measure my plugs - I did also put in a new spark plug when I did the valve cover gasket - I also swapped the ignition coil - several times now.
4) I have replaced all ignition coils and plugs at about 80k - Delphi and stock NGK.
5) 2007 102k miles
6) yep, did that, even checked ground was good on the connector itself - several times.
7) no oil leaks in any spark plug chambers - I did have a small leak on one of the valve cover ground plugs - 1,2,3 cylinder (not 5) and the aforementioned leak into the ESS plug - which has been replaced along with the VCG gasket, ESS seal, and Valvetronic motor seal.

I will follow up on those links - in the mean time - is there any suggestions on unplugging systems to see if they influence the misfire? I am thinking of unplugging the Valvetronic motor, I originally tried unplugging the ESS sensor and that did not help. Perhaps disconnect VANOS?

One other thing I might read is the fuel pump pressure with software.

nsjames · 12-02-2019, 02:54 PM

retension the pins in the injector connector for #5.

I chased a similar injector misfire issue and even replaced injectors and it ended up being the connector. I finally saw that the witness mark on the injector terminal wasn't very strong, tensioned the pins and it went away and has never been back.

smass · 12-02-2019, 02:55 PM

Since you still have everything apart, you may want to do a compression test first. Auto zone probably rents the tester for free. A compression test is less risky than opening up the fuel system. A successful compression test would allow you to focus on spark and fuel. Also check the wiring to #5.

ZGator · 12-02-2019, 02:59 PM

Thanks nsjames I will give that connector a look - I did take it off and reinstall after the VCG job - after having the initial issue - what do you mean by retension? Check the metal clip on injector wiring harness - or look at the pins carefully?

ZGator · 12-02-2019, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smassey321

Since you still have everything apart, you may want to do a compression test first.

gulp!

hope not, but good point!

smass · 12-02-2019, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

gulp!

hope not, but good point!

I typed that before you replied that the issue started after work around the valve cover area. I seriously doubt you have internal engine issues

. Most likely it is wiring/ground related.

bsmoov · 12-02-2019, 05:44 PM

I went through a similar issue chasing down a misfire.

I tried all the recommendations such as:

Swapping coils
Swapping plugs
Swapping coils and plugs
reseating and rechecking connectors
checking pins on injector harness
closing the contacts points in injector harness
used fuel injector cleaner
etc...

What worked for me was finally a crankshaft position code appeared again after I replaced one with an aftermarket cheap unit.

I bought an OEM one of of fcp and all the misfires are in the past now.

Apparently the cheap unit I replaced it with prior was cheaply built and the O ring was wayyy too thin and small. The OEM unit had a huge O ring that made an audible popping seal noise and the sensor was on there nice and tight.

gbalthrop · 12-03-2019, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

...takes about 10 seconds after starting to see it again, every time, usually along with 2E28 - DME - Ignition coil 5.

If the "misfire" code is saved, and SES light comes on, ~ 10 seconds after startup (codes cleared each time), then that certainly sounds like a coil wiring issue, given that you have swapped plugs & coils on cylinder #5.

That "2E28" code relates to coil PRIMARY circuit, and the first thing to check is the Voltage Supply via the Orange wire, with Ignition ON, since you have swapped coils and same #5 cylinder misfire remains. That 2E28 is telling you the coil wiring has issues, either the Voltage Supply or Ground, BOTH of which you need to test electrically.

If you want a "shade tree mechanic" test, remove coil #5 from the plug which remains in the engine, attach a spare spark plug and ground the plug base/threads; start engine and observe LACK of SPARK, or at least lack of regular spark.

If improper/no spark, check for 12V+ at pin #3, Orange wire, of coil connector, including shaking wiring harness, with Ignition ON. Also check for continuity to ground at Pin #1, White/Blue wire, during engine cranking, with connector NOT attached to coil. That wire completes the primary coil circuit by providing GROUND via the DME, and is the signal that "fires" the coil. While you are there, test for continuity to ground on the Secondary Ground, Pin #2, Brown wire at coil connector.

Here is the TIS coil circuit for 2007 model AFTER 3/1/2007. If you have 2007 model built BEFORE 3/1/2007, diagram should be same EXCEPT for fuse number.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/x7JApNv

Here is the Bentley Definition of "2E28":
P0355 | 2E28 | Ignition Coil 'E' Primary / Secondary Circuit

Here is the BMW Fault Code Lookup "Fault Information" sheet for that code:
http://www.bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagVie...EANwAzADAANAA=

Please let us know what you find,
George

ZGator · 12-05-2019, 12:13 PM

I first tried the techron, and took it for a spin after reset of SES, it ran rough, but ran, and no SES until I restarted it again.

Then I put in a new fuel injector in Cylinder 5 but misfire still remains.

I did check that the coil connector - orange does show 12v when ignition is on, and brown wire is connected to ground - continuity test - I have not tested the white/blue wire - I assume that is grounded at a frequency to complete the circuit - probably really need a scope on that? you are saying if I turn car over and test continuity - I should see it? I wonder if switching on/off won't trigger continuity?

Anyway I am really at a loss at the root cause - guess I should test compression next - note this started before I did any work - started the car one day and it died, then I started it again and had misfire - to recap, replacing/changing coil, spark plug, and fuel injector, ESS sensor and VCG did not change a thing.

I will check codes again later..

I am banging my head trying to figure what it could be? Misidentified misfire cylinder number? DME? Valve issue? Wish I looked it over better when I had the VCG off, oh well, live and learn.

gbalthrop · 12-05-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

...put in a new fuel injector in Cylinder 5 but misfire still remains...I have not tested the white/blue wire - I assume that is grounded at a frequency to complete the circuit - probably really need a scope on that? you are saying if I turn car over and test continuity - I should see it? I wonder if switching on/off won't trigger continuity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

...That "2E28" code relates to coil PRIMARY circuit...If you want a "shade tree mechanic" test, remove coil #5 from the plug which remains in the engine, attach a spare spark plug and ground the plug base/threads; start engine and observe LACK of SPARK, or at least lack of regular spark.

If improper/no spark, check for 12V+ at pin #3, Orange wire, of coil connector, including shaking wiring harness, with Ignition ON. Also check for continuity to ground at Pin #1, White/Blue wire, during engine cranking, with connector NOT attached to coil. That wire completes the primary coil circuit by providing GROUND via the DME, and is the signal that "fires" the coil. While you are there, test for continuity to ground on the Secondary Ground, Pin #2, Brown wire at coil connector.

Here is the TIS coil circuit for 2007 model AFTER 3/1/2007...
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/x7JApNv...

I'm NOT sure if there is a way to get a DMM to show ground pulse activity on the White/Blue wire at Pin #1 of the Coil Connector during starter cranking (when the pulse would ONLY be about once per second). I would think that an Ohms reading with one probe on Pin #1 of connector and other probe on chassis ground would show fluctuating resistance @ rate ~ once per second. I would probably try the "External Plug" test described above on two different coils, #5 & one other for comparison purposes. IF #5 is clearly NOT firing at all, or NOT firing regularly as compared to the other coil, then some test of the White/Blue wire which provides DME ground pulse to fire the coil is certainly indicated.

Here is the TIS "Connector View" of the coil connector, for pin identification:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00703/CjmnVm67

You stated that you have 12V+ at Pin #3, Orange wire, and Continuity to Ground at Pin #2, Brown wire (Secondary Ground), and the coil that is NOW in #5 position was elsewhere BEFORE swap, so IF there is an issue with external spark test, then the DME-supplied ground via that White/Blue wire has to be the issue. You can test continuity of that wire between the coil connector, Pin #1, and Pin #5 of X60006 at the DME. Here are "Installation Location" and "Connector View" for Connector X60006 at the DME in the E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...703/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00703/CT4w5ZGN

You didn't say if you tested the #5 Injector connector. With the amount of things that have been replaced or tested different ways to date, I would suggest starting OVER: retesting EVERYTHING electrically to make sure NO ASSumptions were made incorrectly.

Please let us know what you find,
George

ZGator · 12-05-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

the DME-supplied ground via that White/Blue wire has to be the issue. You can test continuity of that wire between the coil connector, Pin #1, and Pin #5 of X60006 at the DME. Here are "Installation Location" and "Connector View" for Connector X60006 at the DME in the E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...703/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...00703/CT4w5ZGN

You didn't say if you tested the #5 Injector connector. With the amount of things that have been replaced or tested different ways to date, I would suggest starting OVER: retesting EVERYTHING electrically to make sure NO ASSumptions were made incorrectly.

George thank you, your tenacity is downright incredible - I was thinking about these diagnostic wiring test as well and really appreciate the connector reference to the DME.

One question would be if it's the DME not supplying the ignition signal - for some reason - or the wiring - so with some testing I can rule out the wire or the DME.

I did just test if white/blue wire was grounded with ignition off - shorted - it was not.

No I did not test the fuel injector wires for continuity (did think about it, thanks for the reminder!)

One thing I did do was reset the adaptions - after the fuel injector change - I did not do that at first test drive after changing it. After the adaption reset AND fault code clear (SES reset) and doing a drive - granted the car was still warm - I actually have a good idle and no SES light returned. I tried a start up just now again for about 1 minute, and no rough idle or SES appeared, so maybe, just maybe there is hope?

ZGator · 12-06-2019, 09:32 AM

TSB, on recommended ignition coil:

Part Number Description Quantity
12 13 8 616 153 Delphi coil Up to 6

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...58489-9490.pdf

I have been using:

DELPHI GN10328
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1442507&jsn=19

instead of DELPHI GN10571
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1442507&jsn=20

The latter one DELPHI GN10571 - shows the proper part number per the BMW TSB.

I have been noticing 2 issues with DELPHI GN10328:
They don't seem to seat very well, and the inside of coil which mates to the plug is appearing very bronze in color - with some possible burn marks. Looking closely I see one protruding nub in the inside of coil where it mates to the spark plug.

When I got a new Delphi coil to try to fix this I noticed it was the proper DELPHI GN10571, it had different rubber, etc as you can see - it also seems to seat better and is a bright metal color.

I have seen warnings about mixing coils - mostly manufacturer - that is don't mix Bosch and Delphi etc - not sure about model number - probably just as 'bad'?

I was swapping coils again - and noticed another misfire on Cylinder 2 - which was using the original bad coil - so now I am thinking it is indeed a bad coil - basically thinking that these are just not making good contact with spark plug - due to seating issues, and or mix match of different model ignition coils.

I almost thinking my improvements when car is warm is due to the mating surface getting better? Anyway I should get all the proper ignition coils as per the TSB, ignition coil buyer beware?

ZGator · 12-09-2019, 10:42 AM

Well, the proper Delphi GN10571 injectors were installed, they fit nice and snug, made improvement, but the misfire is still there on Cylinder 5, idle is rough, and during initial loading of engine there is often a stumble, so don't think root cause is addressed.

Perhaps only hope is running some more Techron to see if resolves a possible valve seating issue?

DME wiring and signal monitoring of ignition white/blue 'trigger', and compression and leak test are next I guess.

nsjames · 12-09-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

Thanks nsjames I will give that connector a look - I did take it off and reinstall after the VCG job - after having the initial issue - what do you mean by retension? Check the metal clip on injector wiring harness - or look at the pins carefully?

bend the female terminals to grip the male terminal on the injector more tightly.

ZGator · 12-22-2019, 12:10 PM

Update, misfire persists depsite efforts noted above.

I think this is an issue with my MSV80 DME Ignition Coil Driver FET -V503GS-

I don't have the schematic - but I opened up my DME and tested the continuity of the FETs I found - I found one had a short between the G/D (Ground and Drain - the large leads on the FET) - then I did a continuity test to X6006 pin 5 to the FET - yep it's number 5 Cylinder pin drive - to the white/blue wire - so all signs points to that.

Now, I need to locate a hot air station to remove and re-apply the FET which I also have to source.

Looks like the N52 MSV80 is prone to this issue - more well known in the MSD80 injector drivers (which I think are the same FETs?).

Replacing DME with a new or refurb is pricey, requires cloning/syncing to CAS/EWS so I really don't want to go there..

gbalthrop · 12-22-2019, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGator

Update, misfire persists depsite efforts noted above. I think this is an issue with my MSV80 DME Ignition Coil Driver FET -V503GS-
I don't have the schematic - but I opened up my DME and tested the continuity of the FETs I found - I found one had a short between the G/D (Ground and Drain - the large leads on the FET) - then I did a continuity test to X6006 pin 5 to the FET - yep it's number 5 Cylinder pin drive - to the white/blue wire - so all signs points to that.

Thanks for the update. I haven't seen much detailed description of repair of FETs, either Injectors or Coils, and personally know NOTHING about the module circuitry or electronics generally. I HOPE you are able to identify the correct replacement part, perhaps something you can get at reasonable price at Mouser, etc., and repair the old one.

HOWEVER you finally go, please increase our knowledge base by providing as much detail of the fix, even with photos if possible, so we can get an idea of How to TEST, and How to at least identify the part# of proper replacement FET, parts source/price, and general procedure and obstacles, if NOT how to DIY.

As you say, much time & expense in replacing entire DME, due to failure of a component that costs ~ $10.

Thanks,
George

ZGator · 12-22-2019, 02:16 PM

I think this is the part (MOSFET surface mount) required:
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collatera...5036S3ST-D.PDF

(see V5036S 263AB - surface mount)

Test:
For each FET I used a multimeter which reads diode voltage/continuity across it's 'legs' (Gate to Emitter) The Gate to Emitter showed continuity and did not have the ~0.6V barrier voltage I expected, it was 0.09V, on the cylinder 5 FET. How did I know which FET is for Cylinder 5 without schematic?

This is what continuity tested found: The collector the middle leg is connected to the white/blue wires to each ignition coil (1-6) - and each Emitter is tied to ground. All those tested OK. The Gate it is assumed to be triggered when the plug is suppose to fire.

I am doing these test with the DME out of car and no power of course. You will find the FETs as seen in link on a corner of the DME facing out. (I knew what I was looking for from experience) Nothing looked damaged or burned out - the suspect FET looks just like the others.

I will post more as I know more - I am an EE although I just write code these days - I have professionally diagnosed circuit boards at an old job eons ago, high current FET drivers were a major failure point there. BUT.. there could be something else amiss beyond the FET so this is by no means the final diagnosis..

George - thanks again for those TIS screen shots of DME connector - particularly the ignition driver pinouts..

ZGator · 01-09-2020, 06:57 PM

SOLVED.

Root cause DME failure Cylinder 5 circuit. I replaced IGBT in my DME, but that did not help, I believe it was a pre-gate driver chip ATIC71:

https://www.u-obd.com/product/atic71b1/

But that was a bitch to get - only from China! Think these MSV80 Siemens VDO were made in China?

What a bitch to solve.

so.. I obtained a MSV80 ECU from junkyard, and got it cloned..

MISFIRE GONE FINALLY!!

12-02-2019, 01:04 PM	#1
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	Fighting a misfire - Injector swap N52 I have a misfire on cylinder 5 - combustion misfires 29D1. Swapping ignition coil, and spark plug did not swap the misfire to other cylinder. Changed my valve cover gasket and Valvetronic/ESS sensor as I had a code with that too - still have the misfire Next step I am assuming is the fuel injector - Has anyone out there swapped fuel injectors - like is commonly done with ignition coils? This is an N52 these fuel injectors have less issues with injectors than the N54 335s - and I assume they DO NOT HAVE TO BE CODED on the N52? Also anybody have any luck cleaning them? I assume that is what they do with rebuilt ones that are now fairly cheap?
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

12-02-2019, 01:41 PM	#2
Joebie Grandmaster 760 Rep 794 Posts Drives: 2018 ///M2 6MT Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: St. Louis iTrader: (0)	Although injector issues on the N52 are rare, they are not unheard of. Swapping them is a bit of a pain in the ass, but totally do-able. The sealing O-rings are really hard to pull out of the head sometimes. Hard to re-seat them too. But yeah with enough cussing you'll get it done. They don't have to be coded. Simplicity is the beauty of the N52... just a good ol' port injected, naturally aspirated straight 6. I don't know much about cleaning injectors so I can't help there, sorry. Some claim that Techron fuel system cleaner does provide some cleaning... its cheap at Wal-Mart so maybe worth a shot. __________________ Daily - 2018 Alpinweiß ///M2 6MT Exec Rain/Snow/Winter - 2011 328i 6MT Sedan - Black on Black, Sport Package Sold, But Not Forgotten - 2009 135i 6MT - Black on Black, M-sport, JB4
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12-02-2019, 02:54 PM	#6
nsjames Brigadier General 2440 Rep 4,331 Posts Drives: 08 328xi Touring Join Date: May 2017 Location: ohio iTrader: (0)	retension the pins in the injector connector for #5. I chased a similar injector misfire issue and even replaced injectors and it ended up being the connector. I finally saw that the witness mark on the injector terminal wasn't very strong, tensioned the pins and it went away and has never been back.
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12-02-2019, 02:55 PM	#7
smass Lieutenant Colonel 396 Rep 1,578 Posts Drives: 06 325i - 10 335i Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Scottsdale, AZ iTrader: (1) Garage List 2010 E90 335i [0.00] 2016 F15 35i [0.00] 2003 E53 3.0 [0.00] 2006 E90 325i [0.00]	Since you still have everything apart, you may want to do a compression test first. Auto zone probably rents the tester for free. A compression test is less risky than opening up the fuel system. A successful compression test would allow you to focus on spark and fuel. Also check the wiring to #5.
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12-02-2019, 02:59 PM	#8
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	Thanks nsjames I will give that connector a look - I did take it off and reinstall after the VCG job - after having the initial issue - what do you mean by retension? Check the metal clip on injector wiring harness - or look at the pins carefully?
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12-02-2019, 05:44 PM	#11
bsmoov Captain 217 Rep 642 Posts Drives: e91 6 speed touring Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Southern California iTrader: (0)	I went through a similar issue chasing down a misfire. I tried all the recommendations such as: Swapping coils Swapping plugs Swapping coils and plugs reseating and rechecking connectors checking pins on injector harness closing the contacts points in injector harness used fuel injector cleaner etc... What worked for me was finally a crankshaft position code appeared again after I replaced one with an aftermarket cheap unit. I bought an OEM one of of fcp and all the misfires are in the past now. Apparently the cheap unit I replaced it with prior was cheaply built and the O ring was wayyy too thin and small. The OEM unit had a huge O ring that made an audible popping seal noise and the sensor was on there nice and tight.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-05-2019, 12:13 PM	#13
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	I first tried the techron, and took it for a spin after reset of SES, it ran rough, but ran, and no SES until I restarted it again. Then I put in a new fuel injector in Cylinder 5 but misfire still remains. I did check that the coil connector - orange does show 12v when ignition is on, and brown wire is connected to ground - continuity test - I have not tested the white/blue wire - I assume that is grounded at a frequency to complete the circuit - probably really need a scope on that? you are saying if I turn car over and test continuity - I should see it? I wonder if switching on/off won't trigger continuity? Anyway I am really at a loss at the root cause - guess I should test compression next - note this started before I did any work - started the car one day and it died, then I started it again and had misfire - to recap, replacing/changing coil, spark plug, and fuel injector, ESS sensor and VCG did not change a thing. I will check codes again later.. I am banging my head trying to figure what it could be? Misidentified misfire cylinder number? DME? Valve issue? Wish I looked it over better when I had the VCG off, oh well, live and learn.
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12-06-2019, 09:32 AM	#16
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	TSB, on recommended ignition coil: Part Number Description Quantity 12 13 8 616 153 Delphi coil Up to 6 https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...58489-9490.pdf I have been using: DELPHI GN10328 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1442507&jsn=19 instead of DELPHI GN10571 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1442507&jsn=20 The latter one DELPHI GN10571 - shows the proper part number per the BMW TSB. I have been noticing 2 issues with DELPHI GN10328: They don't seem to seat very well, and the inside of coil which mates to the plug is appearing very bronze in color - with some possible burn marks. Looking closely I see one protruding nub in the inside of coil where it mates to the spark plug. When I got a new Delphi coil to try to fix this I noticed it was the proper DELPHI GN10571, it had different rubber, etc as you can see - it also seems to seat better and is a bright metal color. I have seen warnings about mixing coils - mostly manufacturer - that is don't mix Bosch and Delphi etc - not sure about model number - probably just as 'bad'? I was swapping coils again - and noticed another misfire on Cylinder 2 - which was using the original bad coil - so now I am thinking it is indeed a bad coil - basically thinking that these are just not making good contact with spark plug - due to seating issues, and or mix match of different model ignition coils. I almost thinking my improvements when car is warm is due to the mating surface getting better? Anyway I should get all the proper ignition coils as per the TSB, ignition coil buyer beware? Last edited by ZGator; 12-06-2019 at 09:46 AM..
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12-09-2019, 10:42 AM	#17
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	Well, the proper Delphi GN10571 injectors were installed, they fit nice and snug, made improvement, but the misfire is still there on Cylinder 5, idle is rough, and during initial loading of engine there is often a stumble, so don't think root cause is addressed. Perhaps only hope is running some more Techron to see if resolves a possible valve seating issue? DME wiring and signal monitoring of ignition white/blue 'trigger', and compression and leak test are next I guess.
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12-22-2019, 12:10 PM	#19
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	Update, misfire persists depsite efforts noted above. I think this is an issue with my MSV80 DME Ignition Coil Driver FET -V503GS- I don't have the schematic - but I opened up my DME and tested the continuity of the FETs I found - I found one had a short between the G/D (Ground and Drain - the large leads on the FET) - then I did a continuity test to X6006 pin 5 to the FET - yep it's number 5 Cylinder pin drive - to the white/blue wire - so all signs points to that. Now, I need to locate a hot air station to remove and re-apply the FET which I also have to source. Looks like the N52 MSV80 is prone to this issue - more well known in the MSD80 injector drivers (which I think are the same FETs?). Replacing DME with a new or refurb is pricey, requires cloning/syncing to CAS/EWS so I really don't want to go there..
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12-22-2019, 02:16 PM	#21
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	I think this is the part (MOSFET surface mount) required: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collatera...5036S3ST-D.PDF (see V5036S 263AB - surface mount) Test: For each FET I used a multimeter which reads diode voltage/continuity across it's 'legs' (Gate to Emitter) The Gate to Emitter showed continuity and did not have the ~0.6V barrier voltage I expected, it was 0.09V, on the cylinder 5 FET. How did I know which FET is for Cylinder 5 without schematic? This is what continuity tested found: The collector the middle leg is connected to the white/blue wires to each ignition coil (1-6) - and each Emitter is tied to ground. All those tested OK. The Gate it is assumed to be triggered when the plug is suppose to fire. I am doing these test with the DME out of car and no power of course. You will find the FETs as seen in link on a corner of the DME facing out. (I knew what I was looking for from experience) Nothing looked damaged or burned out - the suspect FET looks just like the others. I will post more as I know more - I am an EE although I just write code these days - I have professionally diagnosed circuit boards at an old job eons ago, high current FET drivers were a major failure point there. BUT.. there could be something else amiss beyond the FET so this is by no means the final diagnosis.. George - thanks again for those TIS screen shots of DME connector - particularly the ignition driver pinouts.. Last edited by ZGator; 12-23-2019 at 11:12 AM..
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01-09-2020, 06:57 PM	#22
ZGator Private 33 Rep 70 Posts Drives: E90 328xi, E36/7 Z3 2.3 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: New England, USA iTrader: (0)	SOLVED. Root cause DME failure Cylinder 5 circuit. I replaced IGBT in my DME, but that did not help, I believe it was a pre-gate driver chip ATIC71: https://www.u-obd.com/product/atic71b1/ But that was a bitch to get - only from China! Think these MSV80 Siemens VDO were made in China? What a bitch to solve. so.. I obtained a MSV80 ECU from junkyard, and got it cloned.. MISFIRE GONE FINALLY!!
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