[ground_zero]

I'm seriously considering this since multiple emission related issues are cropping up for my newly acquired 102k miles 335d, But my question is this, Is it legal? I fortunately don't live in an emissions test state (Oklahoma) but many pages will post disclaimers that it will make the vehicles non-road legal?

Well to be frank they put that disclaimer on ECU tunes too, But emissions are federally mandated correct?

My state does have laws that I can't make my vehicle louder than factory, So I guess a factory Lambo will be fine but a Civic with a fart can will likely cause them to get a fix it ticket...

Perhaps I should save up for an LS swap instead and delete everything but the cat...

[robnitro]

If you have a doc fitted, or gut your dpf and keep the doc which is right before it, the exhaust is a tiny bit louder than stock. Without doc, you can hear turbo whine and it's louder. Plus the doc cuts down on the diesel smell.

Of course you have to gut the scr or get a pipe to replace it.

Oh and keep the mufflers they also keep it sounding stock.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by ground_zero

Is it legal?

Hell no, but you have to remember what law(s) we are talking about here. When considering the airline and aviation industries are responsible for around 3.5% of ALL anthropogenic climate change, and their total overall impact is considered to be several orders of magnitude greater than that, I have no respect for government-sponsored programs or laws that punish me for being an insignificant, in fact, literally undetectable factor in the overall equation.

Our Air Force burns MILLIONS of gallons of fuel on a daily basis. Automobile emissions control programs are so ill-focused and poorly conceived they do little if anything to curb climate change compared other things that go un-regulated. It's costing drivers and the auto industry BILLIONS, but air operators of all kinds are left to basically do as they please. It's the biggest pennywise pound-foolish government scam in all history, but offers a GREAT way to get the tax and fee fingers in the most people's pockets.

They can kiss my rosie red rectum.

[ground_zero]

Duly noted, Thanks for the responses, I'd love to be able to actually hear the Turbo whine and I've heard the glorious sound on YouTube of people who had the catless downpipes installed.

Is this DIY doable? Or will I need to take it to a shop? Will they even do it?

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by ground_zero

Duly noted, Thanks for the responses, I'd love to be able to actually hear the Turbo whine and I've heard the glorious sound on YouTube of people who had the catless downpipes installed.

Is this DIY doable? Or will I need to take it to a shop? Will they even do it?

You can still hear the turbos whistle with a catted DP. Ceratinly can be done DIY. There is a install posted in the Sticky section of forum.

[rbreding]

Where at in Oklahoma. More than welcome to come see my three diesels to hear and view.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by ground_zero

I'm seriously considering this since multiple emission related issues are cropping up for my newly acquired 102k miles 335d, But my question is this, Is it legal? I fortunately don't live in an emissions test state (Oklahoma) but many pages will post disclaimers that it will make the vehicles non-road legal?

Well to be frank they put that disclaimer on ECU tunes too, But emissions are federally mandated correct?

My state does have laws that I can't make my vehicle louder than factory, So I guess a factory Lambo will be fine but a Civic with a fart can will likely cause them to get a fix it ticket...

Perhaps I should save up for an LS swap instead and delete everything but the cat...

Yes, it is illegal in all states to alter, tamper or otherwise defeat your emissions equipment for on road use. Ask VW... A lot of enthusiasts forget that at their own peril, and yes tuning companies due get busted for this. The diesel tuning company derive or bully dog was busted this month for selling emissions defeat devices.

Now, folks do this all the time. It’s not legal or good for the environment and deleting initially won’t be cheaper. But the bmw diesel emissions system was quite unreliable and that’s why many folks remove it. I have removed the egr on my car,

To answer the guy above who believes his actions don’t matter, not exactly true. Everyone’s impacts matter a little bit. the problem is the earth is over populated so collectively all 7.5 billion of us have a huge impact. If most folks didn’t comply with emissions regulations air quality would be really bad, look at la from the 50s. People forget how bad air quality was pre emissions.

https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/l...past-in-photos

[robnitro]

The air was bad then because of evaporative emissions. Engines had no closed ccv or vapor recovery systems back then. The gas was also leaded!
LA is also surrounded by mountains, so all of that junk would stagnate there.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by robnitro

The air was bad then because of evaporative emissions. Engines had no closed ccv or vapor recovery systems back then. The gas was also leaded!
LA is also surrounded by mountains, so all of that junk would stagnate there.

Yes, those were some of the reasons air quality was bad, along with many others including particulate emissions and nox. Thank goodness we got led out of gasoline.

Back in 1950 the la metro had 4 million people, today it has 13 million. With the massive population growth imagine if 13 million people were polluting at 1950s levels.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

To answer the guy above who believes his actions don’t matter, not exactly true.

Your attitude on that point is exactly false. And your backstory is BS. We had leaded gas, carburetors and primitive diesel technology when the automobile emissions controls got started back in the late 60's because people woke up and wondered what the hell happened when they started seeing all these big, brown clouds over the cities. "OMG these cars are killing the planet!"

Now we have ultra-efficient DI with electronic controlled everything, comparatively low vehicle emissions and guess what? We STILL have brown clouds over the cities, it's even getting worse in some places today, and the overall effect in climate change is only beginning to be understood - 50 years later. The whole EPA-sponsored vehicle emission program(s) were simply a huge miscalculation intended only to keep the fossil fuels flowing and petro industry revenue climbing for as long as possible. Those greedy jokers are even fighting the farmers supplying ethanol - TODAY.

And guess what else? Your wonderful government is more than happy to help line their pockets. Get to the truth in that and you'll see the folly of fossil fuels, but that truth is reserved only for people at 35,000 feet in executive jets and AF1, dumping orders of magnitude greater amounts of harmful emissions than all the cars on the planet combined. Where does my 335D fit in here again?

[Nadir Point]

Let me answer my rhetorical question above for you, just to be clear: Keeping my 335D EPA-compliant contributed in excess of $20,000 (above and beyond the original price of the vehicle) to the "industry" that makes, sells and maintains emissions-compliant cars. That is a sister industry to the petroleum "industry" that fuels them. And every step along the way from gas-guzzler taxes to inspection fees to pump prices we see huge government revenues being generated doing what? Keeping it going - NOT reducing pollution.

[robnitro]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Yes, those were some of the reasons air quality was bad, along with many others including particulate emissions and nox. Thank goodness we got led out of gasoline.

Back in 1950 the la metro had 4 million people, today it has 13 million. With the massive population growth imagine if 13 million people were polluting at 1950s levels.

Cars also ran rich with carbs to warm up and got 1/3rd the mpg. So we're ahead if you went by fuel usage alone.

The biggest reduction of the issues was from:
Vapor recovery at the pump and in the engines
Fuel injection with o2 / mass air monitoring (to keep mixture at a good afr)
In diesels: turbo charging to reduce soot and increase combustion temperatures

Meanwhile, to meet the crazy low nox standards, engines are forced to run higher egr rates which creates more incomplete combustion and uses more fuel. Also it needs a lower compression which also reduces efficiency and burn.

Of course there is a dpf to trap particles, but there's a study I read a while ago that dpf just converts a lot of the bigger particulates into smaller ones when there is a regen. Oh and regens use more fuel too.

The nox causing smog is a lie, they found that smog increased on weekends when less industrial diesel activity was happening. The smaller particles emitted by gasoline engines stay up in the air longer than bigger diesel particles. But now with more and more dpf, we will have even smaller particles, which are also the ones that get deep into the lungs. Smaller particles are harder to catch and expunge from the body.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

Your attitude on that point is exactly false. And your backstory is BS. We had leaded gas, carburetors and primitive diesel technology when the automobile emissions controls got started back in the late 60's because people woke up and wondered what the hell happened when they started seeing all these big, brown clouds over the cities. "OMG these cars are killing the planet!"

Now we have ultra-efficient DI with electronic controlled everything, comparatively low vehicle emissions and guess what? We STILL have brown clouds over the cities, it's even getting worse in some places today, and the overall effect in climate change is only beginning to be understood - 50 years later. The whole EPA-sponsored vehicle emission program(s) were simply a huge miscalculation intended only to keep the fossil fuels flowing and petro industry revenue climbing for as long as possible. Those greedy jokers are even fighting the farmers supplying ethanol - TODAY.

And guess what else? Your wonderful government is more than happy to help line their pockets. Get to the truth in that and you'll see the folly of fossil fuels, but that truth is reserved only for people at 35,000 feet in executive jets and AF1, dumping orders of magnitude greater amounts of harmful emissions than all the cars on the planet combined. Where does my 335D fit in here again?

In other fake news. Vehicle emissions are good for you, and your yoga instructor told me vaccines are bad.

[M5_1of400]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

In other fake news. Vehicle emissions are good for you, and your yoga instructor told me vaccines are bad.

Yeah.. gotta give it to you.. that was a good one 1+

[rbreding]

I will agree with the size of the particulates. I believe there was a euro study done on this with relation to dpf/no dpf and how quickly the larger particulates settled out of the air. They conducted the study near a motorway (highway for us over here) in the country to eliminate other pollution influences. Smaller particulates definitely hung in the air a significant amount of time.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

In other fake news. Vehicle emissions are good for you, and your yoga instructor told me vaccines are bad.

Here's a new emissions delete acronym just coined for people with intelligence challenges: ABCH'er - A hypocrite with the ecological awareness of an amoeba who enjoys demonstrating stupidity by bloviating about BMW emissions controls.

Raise you hand if you're ready to join the discussion!

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by robnitro

In diesels: turbo charging to reduce soot and increase combustion temperatures

Diesel combustion happens when flash point reaches between 126F and 205F, depending on a number of other factors at the top of the compression stroke. Among tubocharger's numerous effects in the equation is REDUCING exhaust gas temperature for a given fueling level. Soot production is an effect of the A/F ratio, regardless of induction method.

Turbos certainly are a big part of the reason, if not the biggest reason modern diesels make efficient power. They do so by enabling higher fueling levels with more oxygen stuffed into the engine along with it. Lower temperatures or maintaining temperatures in safe ranges are one of the turbo's contribution.

[robnitro]

Sorry I meant that it increases intake temperature, helping start combustion.

The lean burn of diesel makes it efficient but also increases nox. That's the catch 22 that egr systems and lower compression complicates. Honestly, the weekend effect found in that study makes out smog to be more caused by smaller particles/voc's than nox.

But the problem in science is that when there is already an established idea with its associated funding, there is a bias of research to try and confirm that idea and the "damned data" gets shelved or ignored as a fluke.
Years later, the "damned data" rears its head as a solution to the problem that the original idea could not fully address. It happened in many of the fields of science.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Sorry I meant that it increases intake temperature, helping start combustion.

Turbo-induced induction heat is actually a big negative, and what drove intercooler tech. The best efficiency happens with intake at the lowest possible temp, enabling max O2 uptake.

But the money aspect of current auto emissions programs is definitely a HUGE boogeyman, in my opinion. Whole cottage industries have sprung up around it, without commensurate pollution reduction. There is no long-term future fueling internal combustion technology in the petro industry. That is one reason the middle east is in turmoil. They are all fighting for a shrinking piece of that pie. The oil companies will only go kicking and screaming until the last internal combustion engine is retired for good.

[Persian Whisperjet]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

There is no long-term future fueling internal combustion technology in the petro industry. That is one reason the middle east is in turmoil. They are all fighting for a shrinking piece of that pie.

You need to update your talking points. Global oil production is at record levels and has exceeded 80 million BPD.

[ground_zero]

Oh my I'm sorry if I spurred this discussion it was not my intention, I avoid political discussion on a board which topics may be vastly unrelated to such but it's hard not to talk about it when it's so intertwined.

So currently the codes I get are for the DPF, EGR and Turbos, The DPF is surely clogged, the EGR sensor is probably caked with soot so the Turbo's don't run as well... After I used Stanadyne additive it smoothed up quite a bit and no longer constantly going into limp mode at high RPM.


I also ordered some DPF cleaning additive, I'd love to have it directly injected but have no idea how to do it so I will just add it to half a tank of fuel and hope it helps, Otherwise I'm out 20 bucks.

[BB_cuda]

Ground_zero, if you have to stay with DFP, I bet you can buy one for cheap on the FB bmw diesel group ( like less than $100). Otherwise, yours will need to be removed (if clogged) and cooked at high temp. I’d recommend to find a good one with low miles. I can go ask over on FB for you.