[BoondogUK]

Originally Posted by IanS100

Dension due to go in tomorrow so hopefully everything will then be finished although I don't have the experience or knowledge of ICE to give a comprehensive or comparitive review so it will only be my observations

No problems... Thats all one can ask

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by makkan00

What issue you have had with MoBridge? I read few negative feedback on American website long time ago but never heard from UK members.

The MoBridge was just incompatible with the car ie:

Whilst it would play music from the iPod it would not consistently display artist or track info.

On the couple of occasions I did manage to retrieve track info it then got stuck & didn’t change, forcing a reset on the MoBridge was necessary to sort this out & be back to no info at all, which I preferred to having the wrong info. The MoBridge clearly knew the artist / track / album name but just wouldn’t display them

The unit also fought with the car & caused loud thumping through the amp - no idea what caused it – The thumping would also start about 20 minutes after the car was shut down & locked – the only way I could stop it was to disconnect power to the MoBridge. I used it for a couple of days before disconnecting to save the car or amps from damage

There was a lot of lag in the system & it became a pain to use – selecting a track would take at least 2 hits on the iController as it ignored the first, or wasn’t quick enough to detect it.

There are only iPod & Aux connections, no USB

In contrast the Dension 500s BT went in easily & works without fuss – artist & track info is displayed – it works well from iPod or USB flash drive, is much faster in operation with little or no lag & I can later expand it with a DAB module, which I will do If I can find a decent DAB stealth aerial – after trying both makes of iPod controller the Dension 500s is definitely the one I’d recommend.

Originally Posted by makkan00

I have German components. Woofers were brilliant but tweeters were let down. Lets see if your speakers sound better after they break-in.

I wouldn’t exactly call them “a let down” but they’re certainly not as bright as the Alpine tweeters I’m used to, but here’s the brief review as promised:

Parts Installed

Dension 500s BT
Gladen One 3 way BMW component speakers
Gladen One 120.4 DSP amp
Glden sub remote for above amp
Gladen BT card for above amp
Gladen One 120.2 amp
Gladen One 100mm rear coax speakers
Gladen 4 channel harness & Power kit

Coding

Alpine / HiFi system upgrade
Dension upgrade

As I said previously, I wasn't all that impressed with the results of the Gladen install when it first went in, it just didn’t seem all that much better, but it has improved out of all recognition & continues to do so. This is the most expensive ICE upgrade I’ve ever undertaken and whether it was worth the cost is a matter of opinion but I’m happy with the results, especially considering the size of the speakers that BMW have chosen to install. Small & perfectly formed may be cute in women but when it comes to speakers it just makes everything very expensive.

The speakers are all well matched with the underseat units going down remarkably low, clearly I’m never going to lose all control over bodily function when I turn them up but they never the less give very acceptable amounts of bass, but the sub controller in the ashtray is a must because I’m constantly adjusting the level. This is probably the result of playing music from the iPod which has been converted using different computers & programs over many years. Maybe CDs would give me more of a constant sound spectrum but I really couldn’t be bothered to carry them around.

As mentioned above, the tweeters are not as bright as I’ve been used to with Alpine but there is still a lot of information coming through and it’s probably a matter a taste anyway. They certainly lift the system and, for me, makes the music much more interesting. I don’t think I realised just how bland the OE speakers really are but it’s great to be able to pick out individual instruments again.

I decided to go front and rear speakers because I like fill I from the rears, I’ve not listened to them while sat in the back but they certainly complement the fronts & I get exactly the effect I want from them.

The only thing I don’t particularly like is the thumps & bangs I sometimes get when unlocking the car & the amps power up. I also get the odd thump sometime well after the key has been removed from the car, which I assume is something to do with the CanBus, I only noticed it because I was sat in the car reading & waiting for a client, it’s a shame the amps aren’t soft start/stop, is there anything that can be added in to the system that would accomplish this?

On the aesthetics front the car looks exactly as it did before the install except for the tweeters in the doors and the wiring / amps under the carpet in the boot, in retrospect I think I would’ve preferred one amp that powered the whole system because I wouldn’t have lost the storage well in the boot, which now contains an amp. I’d quite like a stealth sub to the side of the boot but I’ve no idea where the amp would go, I don’t want one on the back of the seats because they are folding, so this is probably something that will remain on the wish list.

Overall I’d give the Gladen system 8/10 – it’s not perfect but it does what it says on the tin, is unobtrusive & doesn’t break the bank.

Sorry the review isn’t more comprehensive but if you have any questions or you’re reasonably local and would like to have a listen please let me know

[BoondogUK]

what is the Gladen BT card?

BT = bluetooth? I'm a bit lost with that.

I presume you have the 4 channel amp powering the fronts and underseat, and the separate 2 channel running the rears?

Did you upgrade from the base system, and your comparing it to the Alpine kit you had in another car?

Do you feel its worth the extra expenditure over say the alpine retro fit?

Thanks for the review!

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by BoondogUK

what is the Gladen BT card?

BT = bluetooth? I'm a bit lost with that.

It's a Bluetooth card that plugs into the DSP and allows you connect the DSP with a PC for adjustments.

Originally Posted by BoondogUK

I presume you have the 4 channel amp powering the fronts and underseat, and the separate 2 channel running the rears?

Correct

Originally Posted by BoondogUK

Did you upgrade from the base system, and your comparing it to the Alpine kit you had in another car?

I upgraded from the Base but comparing it to my experience of the Alpine tweeter in general & not the BMW Alpine upgrade – sorry I was a bit misleading there

Originally Posted by BoondogUK

Do you feel its worth the extra expenditure over say the alpine retro fit?

The Alpine retrofit has gone up quite a lot in price & is no longer the bargain it was & I’ve heard of quite a few people having problems with the amp – personally I think it was worth the extra expenditure but I reckon a lot won't

.

[Mr Singh]

Thanks for the review Ian, hopefully one day our paths will cross and I'll be able to listen to your car.

We may have news of a couple new variants of the Gladen 3 ways being released in June 2013, when it says the words 'extreme' on the sticker I guess you might be able to tell there intentions are higher power handling

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by IanS100

The MoBridge was just incompatible with the car ie:

Whilst it would play music from the iPod it would not consistently display artist or track info.

On the couple of occasions I did manage to retrieve track info it then got stuck & didn’t change, forcing a reset on the MoBridge was necessary to sort this out & be back to no info at all, which I preferred to having the wrong info. The MoBridge clearly knew the artist / track / album name but just wouldn’t display them

Some users reported it resetting itself and multiple issues.

Originally Posted by IanS100

Overall I’d give the Gladen system 8/10 – it’s not perfect but it does what it says on the tin, is unobtrusive & doesn’t break the bank.

Sorry the review isn’t more comprehensive but if you have any questions or you’re reasonably local and would like to have a listen please let me know

Ian,
Thanks for the feedback as it does help many others.
Just few questions;
1- I take it that your fronts one are having processed sound (due to DSP) but rears are running of hi-fi HU (no processing).
2- What is the difference you feel with DPS on and off?
3- Any chances of seeing the photo(s) of your boot after the installation? It will give others some idea on how much boot space is left?

Mosconi amps are rated very good and I hope you are having some quality time in your car.

[makkan00]

There used to be a time when I tried to match the sound of my car system to my headphones and now, its opposite. Sound quality is so good that I will have to upgrade my headphones.

I am still having P88RS and sound is excellent. I just wonder if I am really going to achieve anything additional from P99RS.

I need a volunteer who can listen to my sound system with P88RS and later listen to it again when P99RS is in.

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by Mr Singh

Thanks for the review Ian, hopefully one day our paths will cross and I'll be able to listen to your car.

Cheers, I'll look forward to that

Originally Posted by Mr Singh

We may have news of a couple new variants of the Gladen 3 ways being released in June 2013, when it says the words 'extreme' on the sticker I guess you might be able to tell there intentions are higher power handling

Sounds interesting although I'm not sure they need more power, or maybe that's just me turning into a wuss in my old age

Originally Posted by makkan00

Some users reported it resetting itself and multiple issues.

The MoBridge was certainly far too flakey for me to risk keeping, left to its own devices I’m sure something would’ve been damaged by the random thumping through the speakers

Originally Posted by makkan00

Just few questions;
1- I take it that your fronts one are having processed sound (due to DSP) but rears are running of hi-fi HU (no processing).
2- What is the difference you feel with DPS on and off?
3- Any chances of seeing the photo(s) of your boot after the installation? It will give others some idea on how much boot space is left?

1. Correct, the Gladen One 100mm rear coax speakers are powered by the Gladen One 120.2 amp.
2. I didn’t know the DSP could be switched off but I’ll have a look & report back.
One big advantage for me is that Mr Singh was able to supply me with a BMW specific Gladen DSP setup file which I BT’d from the laptop to the DSP to take care of all the basic settings, that saved me a whole load of messing.
3. Done

Originally Posted by makkan00

Mosconi amps are rated very good and I hope you are having some quality time in your car.

Cheers, I’m very pleased with it

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by IanS100

Cheers, I’m very pleased with it

Thanks Ian for posting this. It looks good installation. I hope you enjoy the music in your car.

[makkan00]

Stage IV begins!

1- P99RS is here. Scooped it and it produces 61/62 clip free signals compared to P88RS which was producing 55/62 clip free signals. But then P99RS is 5 times the price of P88Rs.



2- Morel Elates are here. I have made 18mm spacers to fit these to underseat boxes, but they are 71mm and OEM enclosure can take 50mm dirvers. So I have to figure out a way to fit these. I may have to modify OEM enclosures or make custom boxes to fit these underseats.
How much am I going to gain?
It is earthquakes 150W vs elates 200W. I cannot comment on sound quality yet, as I have not heard these.



3- JL Slash 300/2 (Class A/B) is here and I have scooped it in my laboratory (kitchen table).
Jl Slash is supposed to produce;
150W@ 4 ohms in stereo mode
300W @ 3-8 ohms in bridged mode

And results are
171W in stereo mode
and whooping
718W in bridged mode

I have re-tested it on other frequencies and it is easily producing 700W. Thats tells you that JL under rate their amplifiers.

I wanted to install few bits and bobs today but weather is lovely and not helping.

[makkan00]

For stage IV, I want to install the under seats first and run them for a week before I change my HU. The reason is that I want to distinguish the impact of under seats and HU on my sound system. If I fit them both together, it will be difficult to tell if sound has improved due to under seats or HU.

So, I started with fitting Elates.
I applied dynamat on the interior surface of OEM enclosure. Since OEM enclosures are made of plastic and they resonate if you feed them more than 70-80W. Dynamat should reduce the resonance and vibration (in theory).
I started making spacers for Morel Elate 9 last night. After taking few measurements, I made 18mm wooden spacer. After trial to fit, I had issues fitting Elates into these enclosures. Problem was the rear cage of Morel Elates 9 which is wider compared to the rear basket of ADMW SW9. And hence most people opted for ADMW SW9. This cage was getting stuck by the ridge in the OEM enclosure (marked by red arrows).

I read kaigoss69's thread (thanks Kaigoss) of fitting 10 inch morels under seat. That gave me an idea of cutting OEM enclosure to use the space below the OEM enclosure. Also the installer of Mega has done the same (thanks Mega).
BMW engineers are clever. They have used plastic under seat enclosures and in order to avoid any rattling created as a result of these enclosures hitting the lower chassis, they have used a rubber spacer (4-5 mm in height) which sits b/w enclosures and the lower part of your car.

Well, that is the plus point for some of us. We can take that spacer out and open the back of OEM enclosures to use that 4-5 mm of space, provided the condition that there is some sound deadening b/w enclosure and the body of the car. By cutting the OEM enclosure, I was going to give morel's cage a bit more space to fit it and rest against the chassis of the car (separated by Dynamat).


So I started with the sound deadening of the lower part of my car where OEM enclosure sits.


Then OEM enclosures were cut.



Sound deadening was applied to seal them again but bit deeper to accommodate Elates.




After having these mods, next task was to separate the seats from the woofers. One of the reason, I opted Elate was that it came with Morel grills.
So, Morel grills were fitted with woofers to wooden spacer. After that the seats still struggled to fit. I had to modify the grills by depressing it. Approximately 3mm space was left b/w grills and woofers. It was later tested at full volume and different tracks that there was no physical contact b.w the woofers and the grills.

Now the fun part was comparison b/w SWS-8s and Elate 9 @150W. One driver was SWS-8 and other was Elate 9.
I turned off sound processing and time alignment (will explain the reason later).
---On sub bass SWS-8 was winner.
---On mid bass Elate was better.
It was very hard to choose which one to go for. Since Morels are expensive, so it comes into your mind that they are better (or at least this is what people perceive that expensive things are better). The other reason is that they can take 200W RMS so you can have SQL setup.
Since I have a sub in my setup and Elates can take 200W, I opted to go for Elates.

Now after having all this, I installed the other Elate 9 and done the calibration.

Few interesting things;
1- Elates reduced my over all sound stage. During the auto-calibration, P88RS did following;
Focal mids at -6db left / -4 db Right (previous -0 db left and right).
Focal tweeters at -9db left / -9db Right (previous was -3db left and -2db Right)
Whereas Elates were at -0db Right and left. (Previous was -3db left and 1- Right with SWS-8s).
My understanding is that with SWS-8, focal mids were set as reference to setup the sound system. However this time, Elates were used to setup the system. There are few more interpretations of these, but I’d limit myself to this for the time being. I need to sit and play with the sound system for some good time before I write any further comments.
So overall sound stage has gone down with elates, however I am expecting to overcome this issue when I feed them @200W and focals @70W with 300/2.
2- Without sound processing / time alignment, both under seats rattles equally, however with a sound processor in your car and time aligned sound, passenger under seats always rattle more. I noticed it first time in Rudz’s car where passenger side under seat rattled more. On my hi-fi system they were equal but since I moved on to P88RS, my passenger side under seat rattled more.
This is the reason that I turned off sound processing / time alignment when I compared SWS-8 and Morel Elates.
3- No matter what other says, I found earthquakes brilliant drivers especially as sub bass drivers. Though it struggles at mid ranger or upper mid range but it is so good at bass.

That's it for the time being. Next week, I will be fitting P99RS if time allows. BT kit for P99Rs has been ordered and will be on its way and that will be going with this HU into my car.

[IanS100]

WOW, that's some serious kit, it's far too dangerous letting me read this

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by IanS100

WOW, that's some serious kit, it's far too dangerous letting me read this

Cheers Ian.

Already missing my earthquakes

[makkan00]

Ok, somebody pm'd me about the price of my kit.
I am writing RRP of my kit
1- P99RS £1000
2- Elate Morels 9 £600 for pair
3- Focal 100KRS 2 £220
4- JL XD 600/6 £455
5- JL 1000/1 £500
6- JL 300/2 £225
7- JL 12W7 £617
8- Pioneer CD-BT200 £125
9- Harnesses / Adaptors / Aftermarket HU compatible kit for steering wheel £100
10- Sound deadening, Wires, etc etc £150

And Approx 80 hours from stage I to IV.

So RRP comes to £3992.

I have paid less than that (approx. 65% of RRP value).

As others said, its expensive hobby and keep getting to dangerous level.

[makkan00]

Few updates;
-Giving Elates a week, I still struggle to get used to it. They are excellent mid bass driver and do not miss even a single beat. However they don't play low very well.
Another benefit is that they play very clean (evern at 180-200W) and much better than Jehnerts.

-Installed P99RS and Slash 300/2 on last Sunday so,
P99RS
a) HI signals ---> 2 channels XD 600/6 ---> 30W to focal tweeters
b) MID signals ---> Slash 300/2 ---> 75W to focal woofers
c) MID bass signals ---> 4 channels (bridged) XD 600/6 ---> 180W to Elates 9
d) Sub signals ---> JL 1000/1 ---> 1000W to 12W7

And P99RS set these drivers as follow;
1- JL 12W7 @ 20-63Hz (reversed polarity)
2- Elates 9 @ 63-1.6Khz (normal polarity)
3- Focal woofers @ 1.6-8Khz (normal polarity)
4- Focal tweeters @ 8-20Khz (normal polarity)

I must say that sound was all over the places. Sound stage was sort of at your knees (due to Elates producing vocals). Again Elate was reference point during the auto calibration and all other drivers were adjusted in -db.

So I went for custom network but auto allignment;
1- JL 12W7 @ 25-80Hz (reversed polarity)
2- Elates 9 @ 63-200Khz (normal polarity)
3- Focal woofers @ 200-4Khz (normal polarity)
4- Focal tweeters @ 4-20Khz (normal polarity)

And boom! Sound stage was up there in front of you.

This is truely premium HU and gives you premium feeling. You can set custom light colours. I have set orange and white colour which matches my car's light (orange) and speedometer (white M3 conversion).

So how much do you gain by moving P88RS to P99RS? It is a question which I asked many people but did not get the technical answer.

P88RS is awsome kit. So good to be true. It has BBE option which retrieves compressed sound. It improves the sound SO GOOD that its is very hard to beat.

So listening to music on P99RS (ipod kit on both HU), I heard hardly 5-10% difference and its mostly at top end (mid - tweeter). You hear bit more music. But that can be due to tweeter being amplied whereas with P88RS they were being run by HU's built in amplifier.

Difference goes upto approx 20% when you listen the music on CD. P99RS gives you way much more details in the music, both on high and low ends.
Other benefit of P99RS is that each channel can be set on different parameters compared to other side. So you can have L elate crossed at 63hz with 24db slope and R elate at 125hz with 6db slope.

So if one can justify the price tag of P99RS for 20% improvement, then its worth of upgrading.

Otherwise, P88RS is so good that you can live with it and with bit of clever way, you can set it in 4 way semi-active sound system (as I did).


My other finding with P99RS is that it play clipless and clean on the max (60/62 for me) volume.

And the gains bit less than max of each amp to give them that headroom to play dynamic music.

Jl 1000 out of 1250W
JL XD 600/ 6 bridged 180W out of 200-220W
JL XD 600/ 6 stereo 25W out of 75W
JL 300/2 75W out of 150W

So all of them have some power left at the end to play / deal with the dynamic music and one of the reason that Active system sounds so well.


Done and dusted!

Next is to tune the sound system and improve it just by tuning.

[orangeglo]

Great thread. I've gathered a wealth of information.

Thanks for doing this.

[IanS100]

I reckon I'd learn a lot too if I understood all of it :-D

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by orangeglo

Great thread. I've gathered a wealth of information.

Thanks for doing this.

Thanks for the compliment.

Originally Posted by IanS100

I reckon I'd learn a lot too if I understood all of it :-D

Its as simple as this photo

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by makkan00

Thanks for the compliment.




Its as simple as this photo

Ahhh, thanks, it all makes sense now

[fcortinas]

Nice install!

[andyrap]

Originally Posted by IanS100

One big advantage for me is that Mr Singh was able to supply me with a BMW specific Gladen DSP setup file which I BT’d from the laptop to the DSP to take care of all the basic settings, that saved me a whole load of messing.

I'm currently part-way through installing the 120.4 DSP and Gladen speakers and have that file as well Ian. I had a check through the settings, and I'm pretty sure it's setup for a left-hand drive car so it's worth going through and reversing everything, particularly the time delay which was putting extra delay on the left speaker (that's what made me realise it was for an LHD - the idea is to delay the speaker nearer the driver to give the impression it's further away). I'd be happy to share mine when I've finished install (waiting on tweeter grills) and tweaking.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by andyrap

I'm currently part-way through installing the 120.4 DSP and Gladen speakers and have that file as well Ian. I had a check through the settings, and I'm pretty sure it's setup for a left-hand drive car so it's worth going through and reversing everything, particularly the time delay which was putting extra delay on the left speaker (that's what made me realise it was for an LHD - the idea is to delay the speaker nearer the driver to give the impression it's further away). I'd be happy to share mine when I've finished install (waiting on tweeter grills) and tweaking.

Well spotted. Sound like european settings been given to the clients in UK.
Clever thinking of reversing them.