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      08-22-2018, 01:58 PM   #1
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GC Camber Plates - Street and Track Setting Questions

I'm getting my GC camber plates installed tomorrow. I bought them to quickly gain some additional camber for the track days but then able to change back to a street setup for my daily commute. I understand the concept that if I change my camber at the track my toe out will increase (all else being equal). Should I attempt to alight my car in spec for the street and just accept the additional toe-out when I rack up the camber for the track or attempt to find some sort of middle ground? My concern with the first option is too much oversteer caused by the toe out and additional front end grip due to the camber. I already went with a square wheel setup so I found the car nicely balanced on the track so I don't want to mess around with that too much.

I predict I'll be able to get about 3.5 deg front camber with the plates and M3 arms, should I just leave it at that for my DD and set the toe to match? I've only done two track days and the lack of camber was very evident on my new MPSS (tons outside tread wear) so I don't want to fix one issue and make another one (inside tread wear from increased camber). People who have dual purpose cars and have invested in adjustable camber plates what do you do? Any alignment tips? I have adjustable rear toe arms so I have some ability to align my car to my liking.

This is all happening tomorrow so a quick response would be appreciated.

Last edited by Volasko; 08-22-2018 at 02:03 PM..
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      08-22-2018, 10:57 PM   #2
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You have to install pins so you can repeat adjustments accurately and I would set 2 degrees with factory toe so if you go to 3 on track you will be around 0
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      08-23-2018, 09:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob09msport View Post
You have to install pins so you can repeat adjustments accurately and I would set 2 degrees with factory toe so if you go to 3 on track you will be around 0
Yeah I find the fact they are shipped without alignment pins a PITA. I found some SS screws with the same thread and will get my shop to TIG weld them in place and cut off the end of the screw and grind it flat for a makeshift pin. I was thinking the same with regards to the alignment setting.
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      08-23-2018, 02:32 PM   #4
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At least you figured that out ahead of time and before paying for alignment it I guess I assumed that people smarter than me designed and I was being my normal pain in ass self so the one time I keep my mouth shut and I really mean the one I actually was right.
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      08-26-2018, 01:10 PM   #5
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Leaving them at 3.5 is not great in my experience. MY car tramlined terribly while braking so I normally dialed back to -2.0 for street use.

Sounds like you e got the pins under control too
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      08-26-2018, 05:33 PM   #6
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If m3 strut mount is installed then no need for pin. However GC camber plates aren't good. They have design flaw. I raised the issue few years ago but was in vain.
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      08-27-2018, 02:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
If m3 strut mount is installed then no need for pin. However GC camber plates aren't good. They have design flaw. I raised the issue few years ago but was in vain.
Don't have the M3 strut mount and already installed the GC plates. I was able to get around 3.5 to 4 deg front camber with them. Was easily adjustable too and very little additional NVH. I'm curious to know more about the design flaw you mention, you have a link with additional information?
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      08-27-2018, 03:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
Don't have the M3 strut mount and already installed the GC plates. I was able to get around 3.5 to 4 deg front camber with them. Was easily adjustable too and very little additional NVH. I'm curious to know more about the design flaw you mention, you have a link with additional information?
They are easy to adjust yes. NVH will only increase. The excess play will make the suspension sloppy too. The insert isn't wide enough to properly support the bushings causing them to fail prematurely due to lateral movements. Design flaw become more apparent as negative camber increases. Link? From what exactly?
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      08-27-2018, 04:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
They are easy to adjust yes. NVH will only increase. The excess play will make the suspension sloppy too. The insert isn't wide enough to properly support the bushings causing them to fail prematurely due to lateral movements. Design flaw become more apparent as negative camber increases. Link? From what exactly?
I was only asking if you made a post about your findings, thus asking for a link. When you say excessive play are you referring to after the bushing wears out due to how small it is? I already track tested them and they seemed fine aside from a little more NVH. Just curious to know more as I respect your opinion on here as you're an avid poster with lots of helpful advice.
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      08-27-2018, 04:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I was only asking if you made a post about your findings, thus asking for a link. When you say excessive play are you referring to after the bushing wears out due to how small it is? I already track tested them and they seemed fine aside from a little more NVH. Just curious to know more as I respect your opinion on here as you're an avid poster with lots of helpful advice.
No, I have not created a thread but I guess I should. I dealt with GC directly via email. Two other forum members send me some photos from their bushings showing early signs of failure. This was 3 maybe 4 years ago but I remember GC being arrogant in there correspondence, like " who are you to say our designed is flawed, we had engineers design these blah blah". Bushing isn't too small. The insert is to small too support the bushing. You already experiencing little more NVH after single track day. It will only progress to worse.
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      08-28-2018, 09:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
No, I have not created a thread but I guess I should. I dealt with GC directly via email. Two other forum members send me some photos from their bushings showing early signs of failure. This was 3 maybe 4 years ago but I remember GC being arrogant in there correspondence, like " who are you to say our designed is flawed, we had engineers design these blah blah". Bushing isn't too small. The insert is to small too support the bushing. You already experiencing little more NVH after single track day. It will only progress to worse.
Did you run aggressive camber for these 3 years before the bushing flaw started to fail. Your previous post says the farther the plate is from center (ie more camber) the more stress is placed on this insert bushing causing the early failure/additional slop. After my track session I put these back to center (ie. stock camber) so maybe I'll fair better? At this point I'm committed to them as I tack welded in the alignment pin so just grasping at straws now.

Also: Would you know how much the toe angle changes with respect to change in camber. I had my alignment shop try and get close to 0, actual toe settings are 0.12 left and 0.11 deg right for a total toe of 0.23, this all while my front camber was around 3.8 deg on both sides. Going back to stock settings would have my front camber at the 1.9 deg range. Essentially want to know if I'd be burning up my fronts on my DD after the change and don't feel like going for another alignment just to confirm myself.

Last edited by Volasko; 08-28-2018 at 10:46 AM..
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      08-28-2018, 10:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
Did you run aggressive camber for these 3 years before the bushing flaw started to fail. Your previous post says the farther the plate is from center (ie more camber) the more stress is placed on this insert bushing causing the early failure/additional slop. After my track session I put these back to center (ie. stock camber) so maybe I'll fair better? At this point I'm committed to them as I tack welded in the alignment pin so just grasping at straws now.
GC will not help you so doesn't really matter what you do with them. They are yours and enjoy them. However expect NVH. I run -3.5 only on track days. -1.5 on street. Although short (time and miles wise) track is far more wear.
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      08-28-2018, 12:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
GC will not help you so doesn't really matter what you do with them. They are yours and enjoy them. However expect NVH. I run -3.5 only on track days. -1.5 on street. Although short (time and miles wise) track is far more wear.
Which plates did you have and did you switch to vorschlag or something ?
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      08-28-2018, 01:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob09msport View Post
Which plates did you have and did you switch to vorschlag or something ?
Camber plates - BMW E9x street - for stock springs. I run Dinan static plates now
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      08-29-2018, 01:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
Would you know how much the toe angle changes with respect to change in camber. I had my alignment shop try and get close to 0, actual toe settings are 0.12 left and 0.11 deg right for a total toe of 0.23, this all while my front camber was around 3.8 deg on both sides. Going back to stock settings would have my front camber at the 1.9 deg range. Essentially want to know if I'd be burning up my fronts on my DD after the change and don't feel like going for another alignment just to confirm myself.
Why didn't you have them dial back camber on the rack so you could see the change real time?

Regardless; easiest thing to do at this point is to buy/build some toe plates and get a couple of tape measures. That will give you exactly what you are looking for at very low cost.
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      08-29-2018, 03:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
Also: Would you know how much the toe angle changes with respect to change in camber. I had my alignment shop try and get close to 0, actual toe settings are 0.12 left and 0.11 deg right for a total toe of 0.23, this all while my front camber was around 3.8 deg on both sides. Going back to stock settings would have my front camber at the 1.9 deg range. Essentially want to know if I'd be burning up my fronts on my DD after the change and don't feel like going for another alignment just to confirm myself.
You do the opposite. Have shop align camber and toe for street. I would say -1.5 to -2.0 camber with toe 0.00 to 0.05. When on track just push camber to max -4.0 and don't worry about toe. Tire wear will be even. But if you must know toe might get close to -0.30 depending on ride height.
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      08-30-2018, 05:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I was only asking if you made a post about your findings, thus asking for a link.
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...9#post23662549
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      08-30-2018, 05:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCobra94 View Post
Why didn't you have them dial back camber on the rack so you could see the change real time?
I asked them to do this, never happened by the time I went to pick up the car it was too late to re-rig this with alignment gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
But if you must know toe might get close to -0.30 depending on ride height.
So going from track camber to street camber (3.8 to about 2) would cause my toe to go out? I thought it was the opposite.
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      08-30-2018, 05:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
So going from track camber to street camber (3.8 to about 2) would cause my toe to go out? I thought it was the opposite.
Go out as go toe out/negative? Or go out as going out of correct setting? More negative camber = more negative toe/toe out. Why you can't receive personal messages?
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      08-31-2018, 09:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Go out as go toe out/negative? Or go out as going out of correct setting? More negative camber = more negative toe/toe out. Why you can't receive personal messages?
I put a coding service post in my local Canadian without paying for a vendor account. I can't make a signature or accept DM's.... I've tried on multiple occasions to fix it and nothing ever came of it from the admins.

I should have been clearer, when I said "go out" I meant negative toe out. I didn't want my shop to align for close to zero toe while at street camber then when at the track get more toe out when I crank up the camber. My theory was the extra front end grip from the camber and more aggressive turn-in from the toe out would throw off the balance of the car by over-steering too much. I'm over thinking this, I might just go get my car checked again and see what my toe setting is now that I'm back to street camber for piece of mind. I just don't want to burn up my front tires by DD on too much toe-in. Here is my alignment sheet from the shop when they had my camber maxed out. Reviewing it again, it seems like they didn't get me that close to 0 deg front toe, so I'm probably running some crazy toe in now that I'm back to street front camber...

Did your GC plates click when turning the wheels when not moving? I'm getting that badly even after double checking my torque settings for the 3 mounting bolts. It seems like it is a common issue, just curious.
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      09-03-2018, 05:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Go out as go toe out/negative? Or go out as going out of correct setting? More negative camber = more negative toe/toe out. Why you can't receive personal messages?
You are right camber increase or tech decrease as in more neg will cause camber out.
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      09-03-2018, 05:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I put a coding service post in my local Canadian without paying for a vendor account. I can't make a signature or accept DM's.... I've tried on multiple occasions to fix it and nothing ever came of it from the admins.

I should have been clearer, when I said "go out" I meant negative toe out. I didn't want my shop to align for close to zero toe while at street camber then when at the track get more toe out when I crank up the camber. My theory was the extra front end grip from the camber and more aggressive turn-in from the toe out would throw off the balance of the car by over-steering too much. I'm over thinking this, I might just go get my car checked again and see what my toe setting is now that I'm back to street camber for piece of mind. I just don't want to burn up my front tires by DD on too much toe-in. Here is my alignment sheet from the shop when they had my camber maxed out. Reviewing it again, it seems like they didn't get me that close to 0 deg front toe, so I'm probably running some crazy toe in now that I'm back to street front camber...

Did your GC plates click when turning the wheels when not moving? I'm getting that badly even after double checking my torque settings for the 3 mounting bolts. It seems like it is a common issue, just curious.
Check your endlinks that's what my clicking was.
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