[dxb335d]

Not Nuts mate, In the dry it can be completely disabled.

Partially for current weather

Fully on for when its hammering down or icy.

[lesfinnie]

I am still playing with it but I find if DTC is pressed and the tail starts to slide back off the throttle and it quickly snaps back in line, so where's the problem

[m@rk]

Originally Posted by M3-FAST

Mark, your being a bit of a clown here mate if you don't mind me saying.

Trying to carefully play on words that 'at least 49.9% of all members of this forum are of a below average driving standard when compared against the whole board membership.'

Wow

I cannot believe that nobody seems to get this.

Everybody thinks they are a great driver (I have yet to see anybody on here claim to be a bad driver). This tends to pan out across most drivers if we are being fair.

Now you could argue that the BMW drivers on this forum (as opposed to the BMW drivers who get a 320D as their company car and don't really care what they drive as long as it has a nice badge) are better than the national average but you don't know that (and neither do I).

So as far as we all know DXB is a really poor driver but is also has the luck of the devil but if we ask him, he will claim he is a great driver (and to be honest I have no reason to disbelieve him).

So sure lets switch off the safety features and encourage complete strangers who might have only passed their test last week to do the same but for gods sake, lets be very sure that we do not lull them into thinking they are just as safe as they were before and that the car will "save them" if it turns out they are not as good as they think they are.

Think back to when YOU first passed your test.

I am sure you will agree that you are a MUCH better driver now than then but back then I am sure you probably thought you were gods gift to driving.

These are very capable cars but are only as good as the person behind the wheel but if we are going to encourage people to turn things off, lets just
be sure we communicate the consequences as well.

If you are unsure about your driving ability (after all you could be in the bottom 10% of the 49.9% below average members??) then you should leave DSC and every other driving aid on when contemplating a 'spirited drive'

Thanks all the same but the badge on the front of my car apparently tells the world I am a great driver

[RagingKileak]

This is like... An insane thread.

Yes, ask the question, but don't argue the advice.

BMW tell you not to push the button because imagine what would happen if they said otherwise? With DTC on or all systems off, if the manual had said 'go on son, be a man' and you had killed a family of hippies in a head on, blaming the manual for goading you, the nanny state MAY hold BMW responsible.

The reality is that I have now spent 2 weekends rocking the knackers off my 320bhp E36 M3 which has nothing but an LSD and some rubber and it's been fine. My 135i and 335d I drive/drove in DTC all the time (even damp) with standard mode only used for cruising or when I need to concentrate, like when it's belting down etc.

Matt

[NFS]

In the old days, cars didn't have traction control at all.

Driving them wasn't 'suicidal' so far as I can recall.

ALL drivers are fully responsible for their safety and the safety of others when they get behind the wheel.

We all have to make sensible decisions about the speed we travel at and the quality of our driving inputs.

It's that simple.

With the 3 series, BMW have thoughtfully included a three stage stability control system.

By default this is fully on, but the user (AT HIS OWN RISK) can switch it to a partial mode (DTC) or turn it off completely.

None of these modes are dangerous. The car can sit still stationary with DTC fully off and no puppies will be killed at all. The driver remains in control at all times and he has to make decisions about what the laws of physics will allow.

Arguably, systems like DSC actually INCREASE driving risk, because they allow people to travel in the illusion of safety at speeds which really are not advisable for given situations.

We are all adults and we can make decisions for ourselves.

I've driven extensively with DTC on and also with DSC off. I've survived to tell the tale and I can confirm EXACTLY how the handling is affected. Funnily enough, switching off a traction control system does nothing to affect the chassis. It simply disables the TRACTION CONTROL.



If there are any drivers on this forum who do not understand that switching off traction control may affect the amount of TRACTION CONTROL available then I suspect that they are probably already in real danger every time they get out of bed.

Anybody THAT stupid should not be in control of complex machinery in the first place.

[RagingKileak]

By the way, I know I am a competent standard driver (I passed a Police driving test) but I know at the Ring later in March, Tony and co will teach me things about my car and myself I didn't know.

I'm still safe driving in DTC or my M3.

Matt

[themetz]

Originally Posted by m@rk

Thanks all the same but the badge on the front of my car apparently tells the world I am a great driver

is it one of those "i'm-a-great-driver" badges?

[NFS]

This is what the manual says:

Originally Posted by BMW

DTC is a traction-optimised version of DSC intended for use in special circumstances, such as roads covered in deep snow. Under these circumstances the system ensures maximum forward traction, but at a certain cost in terms of stability. Consequently, you must exercise suitable caution when driving under these conditions

This does not suggest in ANY way that you should not use DTC or use disable DSC+ because doing so is dangerous.

It means the following:

1. BMW designed DTC for conditions like deep snow.
2. If you switch it on you get more forward traction, but less stability.
3. If you use it ... be careful.

For fucks sake. There is enough of a health and safety nanny state culture pervading our lives already. Do we have to warn everyone about everything all the bloody time.

Anyway, it's cold outside, so wrap up warm. But not too warm, because you may overheat.

[sheps]

Originally Posted by m@rk

Wow

I cannot believe that nobody seems to get this.

Everybody thinks they are a great driver (I have yet to see anybody on here claim to be a bad driver). This tends to pan out across most drivers if we are being fair.

Now you could argue that the BMW drivers on this forum (as opposed to the BMW drivers who get a 320D as their company car and don't really care what they drive as long as it has a nice badge) are better than the national average but you don't know that (and neither do I).

So as far as we all know DXB is a really poor driver but is also has the luck of the devil but if we ask him, he will claim he is a great driver (and to be honest I have no reason to disbelieve him).

So sure lets switch off the safety features and encourage complete strangers who might have only passed their test last week to do the same but for gods sake, lets be very sure that we do not lull them into thinking they are just as safe as they were before and that the car will "save them" if it turns out they are not as good as they think they are.

Think back to when YOU first passed your test.

I am sure you will agree that you are a MUCH better driver now than then but back then I am sure you probably thought you were gods gift to driving.

These are very capable cars but are only as good as the person behind the wheel but if we are going to encourage people to turn things off, lets just
be sure we communicate the consequences as well.



Thanks all the same but the badge on the front of my car apparently tells the world I am a great driver

Surely this is a windup, or have you had too many sherry's with your roast dinner?

I don't know that people on here are better drivers than the average, but based on my observations (having met 20+ members that frequent this board on a regular basis) I would say that on the occasions I have seen them drive they seem better suited to driving without driver aids than the average Joe Public I witness during the 40k miles I drive each year.

Who has encouraged new starters who passed their test last week to switch off traction control aids? Who has advised them they'd be as safe without the aids as they would be if they'd left them engaged? Where is this coming from?

This is the internet pal - would you immediately go boil your head if I told you it was good for hair-loss? Everyone has an opinion, they're like arseholes, and the internet allows for everyone to voice these opinions.

Whether one chooses to blindly accept these opinions as fact or actually think for oneself is what separates the stupid from the not so stupid.

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by sheps

This is the internet pal - would you immediately go boil your head if I told you it was good for hair-loss?

Just plain boiling water Si?

[Steve A]

Mark you are a bell end.

love

Steve.

[M3-FAST]

This is what I use to record my DTC 'incidents'

[NFS]

Originally Posted by m@rk

Not at all.

People are suggesting that DTC improves the handling of the car at speed.

BMW state the opposite of this.

Who is right?

Where do BMW 'state the opposite of this'?

[Steve A]

All dtc does is give more control of the car to the driver and less to the safety systems.

And in general terms a little oversteer goes a long way to increase speed

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by Steve A

And in general terms a little oversteer goes a long way to increase heart speed

[RagingKileak]

Originally Posted by M3-FAST

This is what I use to record my DTC 'incidents'

If that was your actual car and you actually ran on TSW Venoms, I'd be organising a lynch mob right now!!

Matt

[M3-FAST]

ha ha, Once had an E30 running on 15" TSW Stealths lol!!! They were classed as massive rims back then!

Anyway, back OT, I was merely showing what injuries can be inflicted upon innocent human's by turning off traction aids against BMW's 'opposite' advice!

[dxb335d]

There not TSW vemons if you look closely

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

There not TSW vemons if you look closely

TSW Venoms aren't fake splits are they?

[flip4335]

Originally Posted by NFS

In the old days, cars didn't have traction control at all.

Driving them wasn't 'suicidal' so far as I can recall.

ALL drivers are fully responsible for their safety and the safety of others when they get behind the wheel.

We all have to make sensible decisions about the speed we travel at and the quality of our driving inputs.

It's that simple.

With the 3 series, BMW have thoughtfully included a three stage stability control system.

By default this is fully on, but the user (AT HIS OWN RISK) can switch it to a partial mode (DTC) or turn it off completely.

NONE OF THESE MODES ARE DANGEROUS.

The car can sit still stationary with DTC fully off and no puppies will be killed at all.

The driver remains in control at all times and he has to make decisions about what the laws of physics will allow.

Arguably, systems like DTC actually INCREASE driving risk, because they allow people to travel in the illusion of safety at speeds which really are not advisable for given situations.

We are all adults and we can make decisions for ourselves.

I've driven extensively with DTC on and also with DSC off. I've survived to tell the tale and I can confirm EXACTLY how the handling is affected.

Funnily enough, switching off a traction control system does nothing to affect the chassis. It simply disables the TRACTION CONTROL.




If there are any drivers on this forum who do not understand that switching off traction control may affect the amount of TRACTION CONTROL available then I suspect that they are probably already in real danger every time they get out of bed.

Anybody THAT stupid should not be in control of complex machinery in the first place.

+1

I also remember a time when nanny controls did not exist and threshold braking was the norm for navigating traffic and winding roads. How did anyone ever get around before DTC/DSC?

Since I completed an intense driving course where students drove without traction control in a variety of vehicles (from FWD to AWD and RWD), I understand the physics and awesome responsibilities associated with focused driving in multiple environmental scenarios (snow, mud, wet, dry, etc.).

With that said, I installed a Quaife diff and swapped out my RFTs when they finally wore out for a set of Hankooks (great wet traction, quiet, and inexpensive). Now my nanny lights hardly ever light up because they are almost always off. Saves wear and tear on the brake pads.

[sheps]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Just plain boiling water Si?

Will, A tablespoon of vinegar and a oxo-cube size chunk of unobtainium to 3l of fast-boiling water should be perfect.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by flip4335

+1

I also remember a time when nanny controls did not exist and threshold braking was the norm for navigating traffic and winding roads. How did anyone ever get around before DTC/DSC?

Many new cars still don't traction/stability control...