[hassmaschine]

No.. Don't need throttles at all.

It uses it to generate vacuum but will work file without it.

edit: S54 manifold should fit fairly well - just need a transition piece for the trumpets:


The runner length is shorter but the box volume is higher - might hurt torque a bit, but peak power should be higher. Not a good idea for a heavy pig E9x, but should be fine in an E30.

[JuniorB]

Ah,I see,that throttle body conversion would really be something if you could control them like a single,if anybody could do it,it's you Hass! That would get them scratching there head! :lol. Intrested in this build,love it when guys do swaps!

[hassmaschine]

No reason to add a throttle restriction when none is needed - but MSV70 could definitely run S54 throttles - MSS70 is 99% the same as MSV70.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

No.. Don't need throttles at all.

It uses it to generate vacuum but will work file without it.

edit: S54 manifold should fit fairly well - just need a transition piece for the trumpets:


The runner length is shorter but the box volume is higher - might hurt torque a bit, but peak power should be higher. Not a good idea for a heavy pig E9x, but should be fine in an E30.

S54 does fine on torque anyway, shouldn't be a huge issue. Throw some cams in there and that thing should scream.

[Taskmaster]

Yeah, you do that and send the map to me.

[Hobbs64]

Ditto what Axiom said!

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

No reason to add a throttle restriction when none is needed - but MSV70 could definitely run S54 throttles - MSS70 is 99% the same as MSV70.

Just don't forget to program the failsafe park position on the eccentric cam to 0 instead of 180 degrees.

[hassmaschine]

yeah I'll need to test it - ideally, I would have enough lift to limp the car to the side of the road / home (depending on where I am). Maybe just above idle - 1500rpm or so.

most likely I'll carry a spare VVT motor with me, but I don't think complete valvetronic failures are all that common anyway.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah I'll need to test it - ideally, I would have enough lift to limp the car to the side of the road / home (depending on where I am). Maybe just above idle - 1500rpm or so.

most likely I'll carry a spare VVT motor with me, but I don't think complete valvetronic failures are all that common anyway.

I thought the sensors were more prone to failure?

Actually if the VVT motor fails will it matter how you program the failsafe?

[hassmaschine]

the eccentric shaft sensor? yeah I don't know. I don't think it's that common.

if the motor fails then I will have to swap it out - so I'd carry a spare.

[Taskmaster]

It's not the motor that fails usually, it's the sensor.

[Terraphantm]

You could probably use whatever failsafe that throttle bodied BMWs would use for the event that the throttle body got stuck open (very rare, but still something they had to account for). I think that limp mode just cut fuel to very low amounts

[dstrickland]

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

You could probably use whatever failsafe that throttle bodied BMWs would use for the event that the throttle body got stuck open (very rare, but still something they had to account for). I think that limp mode just cut fuel to very low amounts

Awkward that I just read this, considering what my project was today...a complete valvetronic failure. Was diagnosing an N52 that was randomly cutting off during driving. Also had low oil warning despite recent oil change.

The eccentric shaft stop ended up completely snapping off causing the valves the completely close when the VVT sent it to minimum left. Unfortunately the stop is casted into the head & an oil passage runs underneath so a valvetronic delete wouldn't have worked for this customer to keep her going....

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by dstrickland

Awkward that I just read this, considering what my project was today...a complete valvetronic failure. Was diagnosing an N52 that was randomly cutting off during driving. Also had low oil warning despite recent oil change.

The eccentric shaft stop ended up completely snapping off causing the valves the completely close when the VVT sent it to minimum left. Unfortunately the stop is casted into the head & an oil passage runs underneath so a valvetronic delete wouldn't have worked for this customer to keep her going....

Wow.....wonder how that happened or how common a failure that is.
Looks like one costly repair if that cannot be welded back on.

[hassmaschine]

Well, if something like that happens you're not driving anywhere anyway.

Its like worrying about dying in a plane crash or being struck by lightning.... It happens but the mundane stuff is far more common.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

Wow.....wonder how that happened or how common a failure that is.
Looks like one costly repair if that cannot be welded back on.

It wouldn't be, they would replace rhe head.

[dstrickland]

Yeah, it's definitely the first VVT failure I've seen to that extent...

[hassmaschine]

Actually been thinking about it - couldn't MSV70 already drive the S54 ITBs? I mean, the I/O is the same - I believe the TPS signals are all the same. There are some parameters for open throttle area but all of that could be copied from MSS70.

they are probably too big for the N52 (50mm IIRC - I think the N52 ports are closer to 45mm). But the heads have long runners so the velocity might be fine. Looking to borrow a set so I can mock up the plenum anyway - so I'll have a good idea of how close they are.

Anyway, not something I plan on doing, but it's entirely feasible. Maybe if the complete throttle delete ends up being too much of a safety issue, I could look into this more.

[Terraphantm]

It should be able to.

Throttle body diameter is 50mm. Intake ports on the S54 are 52mm wide and 33.5mm tall (at least according to the one CAD file I have).

According to this, stock N52 ports are 50.2mm wide and 30.2mm tall. Not *terribly* off if that's accurate. http://www.sccaproracing.com/files/V...90%2091106.pdf

[lab_rat]

Any updates, hass?

[hassmaschine]

Not completely nothing, but nothing has been happening.. directly.

I did pick up a flywheel that will work with my engine/trans combo. It needs a small mod for the dowel pin, and I need to test starter fitment - but it's a 7lb steel flywheel, should be awesome on the track.

But mostly I've been working on tuning. Tweaking the last few bugs for the standalone MSV70 program, and also working on the same for MSV80/MSD80. There is 1 N52 swap car that I'm working on that will hopefully have a dyno this week..

[dancing__narwhal]

Excited to see the results of this. What is the other n52 swap car?