[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by orionredwing

Just a little feedback. I just changed my thermostat and water pump 2-3 weeks ago (82K miles). I don't have the OEM part numbers, but the water pump I received was different than the original one I had. Unless there were several iterations of water pumps, I'm guessing it's the new one mentioned.

UNFORTUNATELY, my oil temps are not running cooler like the OP's.

25% coolant:distilled water ratio w/ 2 bottles MoCool for me. Water temps are around 98C after car has warmed up. I wasn't sure if that's normal (didn't monitor before), but after reading thread, seems that's the right range? Oil temps are the same, around 230-240ish for me.

Just another data point to share to curb a little of the optimism

err,... read some more of the info in the thread. The thermostat is what is causing the lower oil temps. Its an aftermarket one made by whaler, which makes colder running thermostats for Audi's and BMW's. Read: Aftermarket Thermostat, not available at the stealership

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Got my car back this afternoon, with a new water pump installed.

The part number is the new one that is listed under Realoem as belonging to the N55 model: 11517588885.

I haven't been able to drive enough with the car to see whether the water or oil temperatures are in any way affected by this replacement, however. We'll see!

Alpina_B3_Lux

Sorry, but it more than likely WON'T affect your oil temps one bit. You need the Thermostat made by whaler, to make your car run cooler.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I would be surprised if oil temps read anything lower than the usual. I think OP cars has something else going on. Maybe his fan is constantly on. I had it happen one time with the procede in which firmware was corrupted. Temps stay around 180 throughout and never raise any higher than that until I reloaded the firmware

I'm surprised at how new the concept of a cold running thermosat is to the BMW community. My former car: Acura TL, had a non-oem thermostat made by mugen, which was made for the prelude. When I put it in, my normal operating oil temps dropped like 30 degrees.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by rismo123

I have to disapoint you guys... I have the new pump on my car for the last 2 months and it does not change a bit....
Both facts are confirmed by BMW....
sry....

The pump with part # ending up 885

Read the whole thread, or re-read my original post. I have made changes to it in bold.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Read the whole thread, or re-read my original post. I have made changes to it in bold.

Turkeybaster -

Unless it's a magic thermostat that adds thermal capacity and includes a heat exchanger, the thermostat is NOT lowering temps!

Neil

[e90pilot]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Turkeybaster -

Unless it's a magic thermostat that adds thermal capacity and includes a heat exchanger, the thermostat is NOT lowering temps!

Neil

Isn't it the thermostat's job to regulate how much thermal capacity is used? If you're not using all your thermal capacity of your cooling system then adjusting when the thermostat opens and closes can change your operating temps. What you're saying is that the car is using it's cooling system to it fullest extent. I'm guessing the combination of both the new thermostat and new higher speed water pump may what's producing the results.

Someone posted earlier that Dinan did some research on the issue. The 1M has the upgraded water pump and fan but not the extra radiator. They just slap on the larger oil cooler and that's it. I'm not too familiar with the 1M so I'm not sure if it has the same issues that the N54 powered 335s have.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

Oh yeah, duh, I forgot about that setup. I don't know how much the small aux radiator does, but any little bit will help.

Originally Posted by rader1

I've always read that the PPK kit doesn't help with temps. It SOUNDS like it should take care of the problem but a lot of users seemed really dissappointed with it.

Per Dinan:

The second rad in the PPK and what is now incorporated into the 335is is technically useless.

BMW came up with the secondary rad to "mitigate" for the tiny OC the N54 shouldered

The already beafed up rad system just needs a bigger OC which will supplement the cooling system much more

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

The 1M has the upgraded water pump and fan but not the extra radiator. They just slap on the larger oil cooler and that's it. I'm not too familiar with the 1M so I'm not sure if it has the same issues that the N54 powered 335s have.

I have a 1M and that is not correct. It has an auxilliary radiator on the drivers side and an oil cooler on the passenger side.

And despite what others have said about the PPK (which is standard on the 1M), my 1M -- which has spent 16 days on the track running with time trialers and fellow instructors at tracks including VIR, Barber and Summit Point in July/August -- has never gone into limp home mode.

Neil

[ADVANT123]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

I have a 1M and that is not correct. It has an auxilliary radiator on the drivers side and an oil cooler on the passenger side.

And despite what others have said about the PPK (which is standard on the 1M), my 1M -- which has spent 16 days on the track running with time trialers and fellow instructors at tracks including VIR, Barber and Summit Point in July/August -- has never gone into limp home mode.

Neil

Neil, what is your oil temperature during daily driving? I noticed that in my 1M, I hover around 245 degrees (once fully warmed up during normal driving, no full throttle) while my 335 (non-sport package, no oil cooler) runs around 230 degrees?

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by ADVANT123

Neil, what is your oil temperature during daily driving? I noticed that in my 1M, I hover around 245 degrees (once fully warmed up during normal driving, no full throttle) while my 335 (non-sport package, no oil cooler) runs around 230 degrees?

Yep, 245 here also.

But as James M3M5 posted earlier, that's measured in the oil pan (the temp sensor is in the same unit as the level sensor) -- a spot that is 20 + degrees hotter than where it was measured on older models.

Further, component protection mode -- which cuts power by retarding timing -- is not triggered until 298 F. Limp home is triggered at 316 F.

BTW, the temps for coolant are 243 F (component protection) and 257 F (limp home).

No doubt, it's a hot running engine. Fortunately, that is by design.

Neil

[ADVANT123]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Yep, 245 here also.

But as James M3M5 posted earlier, that's measured in the oil pan (the temp sensor is in the same unit as the level sensor) -- a spot that is 20 + degrees hotter than where it was measured on older models.

Further, component protection mode -- which cuts power by retarding timing -- is not triggered until 298 F. Limp home is triggered at 316 F.

BTW, the temps for coolant are 243 F (component protection) and 257 F (limp home).

No doubt, it's a hot running engine. Fortunately, that is by design.

Neil

Good info, thanks for the clarification.

Joe

[JamesM3M5]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Isn't it the thermostat's job to regulate how much thermal capacity is used? If you're not using all your thermal capacity of your cooling system then adjusting when the thermostat opens and closes can change your operating temps. What you're saying is that the car is using it's cooling system to it fullest extent. I'm guessing the combination of both the new thermostat and new higher speed water pump may what's producing the results.

Someone posted earlier that Dinan did some research on the issue. The 1M has the upgraded water pump and fan but not the extra radiator. They just slap on the larger oil cooler and that's it. I'm not too familiar with the 1M so I'm not sure if it has the same issues that the N54 powered 335s have.

I think Neil meant under load such as road course and continuous hard driving. If all you're seeing is lower temps driving around town with a lower temp thermostat but no improvement on track, you haven't gained anything. The system is heat saturated very quickly when we add 50, 80, 120 extra HP and beat on it for more than just 12 seconds at a time.

I suspect that any lower temps seen from aftermarket parts and the possibly better, new electric water pump, will be barely perceptible on track. It may help, but I'd like to investigate a better radiator, just like other companies have upgraded oil coolers.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Turkeybaster -

Unless it's a magic thermostat that adds thermal capacity and includes a heat exchanger, the thermostat is NOT lowering temps!

Neil

This is the most illiterate thing I've read on this thread. Wow, so, aftermarket Lower temp thermostats have no effect on an engine's running temperature? Did You know if you bungee jump hard enough, you will defy gravity and fly? True story bro.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I think Neil meant under load such as road course and continuous hard driving. If all you're seeing is lower temps driving around town with a lower temp thermostat but no improvement on track, you haven't gained anything. The system is heat saturated very quickly when we add 50, 80, 120 extra HP and beat on it for more than just 12 seconds at a time.

I suspect that any lower temps seen from aftermarket parts and the possibly better, new electric water pump, will be barely perceptible on track. It may help, but I'd like to investigate a better radiator, just like other companies have upgraded oil coolers.

You know, I've noticed that most of the negative comments on this thread stem from folks running Meth. I feel your pain. We track guys have tried everything on this car, before this new option. Larger oil cooler, Piggyback oil cooler, diluted coolant with water wetter, and now recently, folks started spraying all kinds of chemicals (Methanol, isopropyl Alcohol) into their engine, just to complete a single session at the track. the only group that had any luck were those running lower oil cooler thermostats (e.g STETT, or AR design stage 2)

Unfortunately, it seems very likely that everyone will soon be put to shame by a $99 thermostat. Stuff happens, man, that's life. I've always known that all we needed was a lower engine thermostat. It's just a freaking no brainer.

[JamesM3M5]

This bores me...

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

This is the most illiterate thing I've read on this thread. Wow, so, aftermarket Lower temp thermostats have no effect on an engines running temperature? Did You know if you bungee jump hard enough, you will defy gravity and fly? True story bro.

They'll only result in lower operating temps if the system has "surplus" thermal capacity. Otherwise, they just open up sooner.

If you want to run cooler, you need a larger/more efficient radiator.

BTW, I'm occasionally wrong but rarely illiterate

Neil

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

They'll only result in lower operating temps if the system has "surplus" thermal capacity. Otherwise, they just open up sooner.

If you want to run cooler, you need a larger/more efficient radiator.

BTW, I'm occasionally wrong but rarely illiterate

Neil

you know Neil, I called up the guy at my indy shop who worked on my vehicle, and thanked him for accidentally solving the single most annoying problem I think we've ever seen in a BMW. He was very happy with my results, and said, Whaler did the same thing for their Audi customers, in the past, and that's why he ordered it. Finally, I told him that I posted the story online, and he wasn't too happy about it. He said I should have just said nothing, and gone to the track to enjoy my vehicle, and tell folks in my local track community.

After reading these responses on here, i couldn't agree more.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

You know, I've noticed that most of the negative comments on this thread stem from folks running Meth. I feel your pain. We track guys have tried everything on this car, before this new option. Larger oil cooler, Piggyback oil cooler, diluted coolant with water wetter, and now recently, folks started spraying all kinds of chemicals (Methanol, isopropyl Alcohol) into their engine, just to complete a single session at the track. the only group that had any luck were those running lower oil cooler thermostats (e.g STETT, or AR design stage 2)

Unfortunately, it seems very likely that everyone will soon be put to shame by a $99 thermostat. Stuff happens, man, that's life. I've always known that all we needed was a lower engine thermostat. It's just a freaking no brainer.

I would not disagree that a lower temp t-stat would help under load sustaining temps. But if i remember correctly your original post mentioned warm up and daily driving temps. Warm up would happen no matter the t-stat and the DME controls coolant temps with pump speeds so there should be no change in coolant or oil temp... Unless you were nearing thermal limits already.

You are basing this off oil temp only or actual coolant temp also. Do you have the 250 or 210deg mid point gauge?

I do hope your observations are accurate though.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I think Neil meant under load such as road course and continuous hard driving. If all you're seeing is lower temps driving around town with a lower temp thermostat but no improvement on track, you haven't gained anything. The system is heat saturated very quickly when we add 50, 80, 120 extra HP and beat on it for more than just 12 seconds at a time.

I suspect that any lower temps seen from aftermarket parts and the possibly better, new electric water pump, will be barely perceptible on track. It may help, but I'd like to investigate a better radiator, just like other companies have upgraded oil coolers.

Good clarification, James.

I'm done with this turkey of a thread

Neil

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I would not disagree that a lower temp t-stat would help under load sustaining temps. But if i remember correctly your original post mentioned warm up and daily driving temps. Warm up would happen no matter the t-stat and the DME controls coolant temps with pump speeds so there should be no change in coolant or oil temp... Unless you were nearing thermal limits already.

You are basing this off oil temp only or actual coolant temp also. Do you have the 250 or 210deg mid point gauge?

I do hope your observations are accurate though.

err...Yes, engine warm up has been greatly affected. As you said, this is due to the DME which controls coolant temps with "pump" speeds. With my upgraded stronger pump, this would easily explain the slow oil temp increases, as opposed to the near instantaneous response with the old water pump.

I have the 210 deg mid point btw. Used to take about 7 mins of driving to reach 210 degrees. Today on the way back from work, it took more than 30 mins of driving for the needle to settle between 200, and 210F.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Good clarification, James.

I'm done with this turkey of a thread

Neil

Yes, thanks James, I'll go rob my local college chemistry class of chemicals, which I will spray directly into my $15K motor, just to complete one 20 min session of driving at the track.

[JamesM3M5]

Pelican Parts lists the Wahler, no-name (probably Calorstat), and Behr OEM replacement coolant thermostat at 97C. Whether the Wahler indeed opens earlier than its 97C designation or not remains to be proven.

But didn't you seem to agree with the M5 board guys that a colder thermostat doesn't lower temps? I'm confused. First you rhetorically ask whether I'd go up against that sound logic on the M5 boards. Then you chide all of us for not believing that a "colder" coolant thermostat, combined with an assumed better water pump, will lower oil temps permanently.

I'm just saying I'm skeptical. Lower temp thermostat only helps when you're below the capacity of the system. There are tons of hard core track guys with E36 and E46 M3s, both with very high capacity engine-driven water pumps, upgraded radiators, and lower temp thermostats (I run 75 or 80C in the E36, and E46 M3 is already 79 or 80C) that have trouble keeping temps below 210F on track regardless of thermostat temp.

If the Wahler flows better, that's one thing. But simply chalking up lower oil temps to a simple, aftermarket coolant thermostat change, that just doesn't add up.