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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Base System Upgrade on a Budget



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      01-26-2018, 05:56 PM   #23
Ali-323i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
Thanks for the advice.

So a 6 ch amp is the best way to go if I want to use all 6 speakers?

If I go with a 4ch amp I take it I'll have to remove the rears?

Thanks in advance
3 options:
1. Disconnect the rear speakers
2. Use a passive crossover between your front door speakers and the under seat woofer, and wire them to the same channels
3. Bridge your front and rear speakers to the same channels

But none of these will be as good as getting the right sized amp for the job (unless you just remove the rear stage).
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      01-26-2018, 06:40 PM   #24
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The cable you see in the rear is not for an amp its for a CD cassette
changer.
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      01-28-2018, 08:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali-323i View Post
3 options:
1. Disconnect the rear speakers
2. Use a passive crossover between your front door speakers and the under seat woofer, and wire them to the same channels
3. Bridge your front and rear speakers to the same channels

But none of these will be as good as getting the right sized amp for the job (unless you just remove the rear stage).
Cheers

Iíll do some digging on what has been done as Iíve never wired an amp before.
I take I have to run speaker wire from the HU the amp.

What kind of spec should I be looking at for the amp?
I have no intention of adding an sub as I need the space in the boot (trunk).

Thanks
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      01-28-2018, 12:59 PM   #26
ctuna
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Best to buy a Technic harness or at least some type of harness and not cut into the factory wiring .

See the audio build thread in the stickys.

The amp spec mostly power per channel is what you need to match to the speakers you buy.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234

base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_

Better take it slow and study some stuff on basic stereo and auto stereo theory before Diy ing this stuff by yourself.

Base System Upgrades
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378833
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904
base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_

Try to find some of the other guys near you
in the UK for some direct Help there is a UK board
here.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704363

Last edited by ctuna; 01-28-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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      01-28-2018, 01:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
I have no intention of adding an sub as I need the space in the boot (trunk).
If you have a non-turbo model (single muffler), you can build a custom enclosure for a 10" in the storage compartment under the trunk floor.

You could also look at the Infinite baffle option.

With a decent upgrade of the underseat woofers you could perhaps get by without a trunk sub anyway, unless you really want those deep lows or to pound hard.
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      01-28-2018, 01:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
Hi

Thanks for the info, it'll give me summat to think aboiut over the weekend.

I also noticed that I have a cable in the rear left hand side of the boot where the amp would normally go. The cable is a green, brown, red and black I think wrapped in cloth.

Do we know what that is used for?

Thanks
I'm guessing it's pre-wired for cars with an oem amp.

You can probably tap into that for your amp, especially using a technic harness or similar.
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      01-28-2018, 02:10 PM   #29
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Pre Wiring for and amp I am not so sure they would do that because
there are three different types. There is no evidence for it as it has
not come up on this board. They did pre wire for Alarm , TCU , Sat module
and HD Radio and Cd cassete changer at one point. A Hi Fi connector is
not a small three wire thing nor is the speaker out connector for an L7 amp.
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      01-28-2018, 05:56 PM   #30
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For what it's worth, I've just upgraded the base stereo audio in my E92 (2x front door, 2x rear panel, 2x under seat subwoofers).

I've replaced the front door speakers and subwoofers, and added tweeters, with a MB Quart QM200.3 bundle (£260). I have replaced the rear panel/door speakers with MB Quart QM100 bundle (£90). I also installed a Pioneer GM-D8604 4-channel amplifier to power the front speakers, tweeters and subwoofers. I have left the new rear speakers running on the original car connections.

If you bought the QM200.3 bundle, you could replace the front door speakers, subwoofers and add tweeters for within your budget. Although, they would remain running off the current connections to the headunit through the quadlock harness. I have no experience of what that would sound like. However, what I can tell you, is that replacing the stock rear speakers with QM100s produced noticeably better sound even uwithout them being connected to an amplifier. Apart from the tweeter installation (which requites you to cut a hole in your corner mouldings, or mount them on the dash if you'd prefer not to do so), you don't need to mess with wiring looms to install it.

If you go this route, feel free to drop me a PM with any questions and I'll answer as best I can. It took me and a friend 8 hours to install my setup, mainly due to a load of questions we had to figure out on the fly. I could potentially save you some puzzlement because I have already worked out how to install everything.
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      02-01-2018, 10:46 AM   #31
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Which Amp

Hi

Thanks for the info.

I have been to my local car audio shop who advised they can install the amp for £45 and can also provide the wiring kit for £25.
They recommended a 4ch amp and advised they should be able to source it for £150.

Please can you advise on what amp I should go for. I would just like to power my speakers front speakers and possibly the rears. I dont need a sub woofer.

Many thanks
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      02-03-2018, 12:14 PM   #32
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I installed a Pioneer GM-D6804 (4 channel amp) into my car and have been very happy with the result. I bought it here:

https://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/pro...04_p-32190.htm
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      02-03-2018, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EffectOne View Post
I installed a Pioneer GM-D6804 (4 channel amp) into my car and have been very happy with the result. I bought it here:

https://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/pro...04_p-32190.htm
Thats a decent price amp with a good 100w RMS per channel compared to the 40w RMS from the Alpine.
This amount of watts would power most aftermarket underseat subs.

I read that BMW speaker level out has some complicated differential balanced signal(some crap like that). So was this amp able to use the speaker level input or did you use some converter in the middle?
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      02-03-2018, 05:22 PM   #34
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JL amps accept the inputs and offer a wide range of 4, 5, and 6 channel amps that work well in our cars.
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      02-03-2018, 05:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayek View Post
Thats a decent price amp with a good 100w RMS per channel compared to the 40w RMS from the Alpine.
This amount of watts would power most aftermarket underseat subs.

I read that BMW speaker level out has some complicated differential balanced signal(some crap like that). So was this amp able to use the speaker level input or did you use some converter in the middle?
The 100w RMS was precisely what attracted me to the amp. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question because I replaced the front speakers and subwoofers in my car (and added tweeters) at the same time as installing the amp (with an MB Quart 200.3 kit, £260 from Amazon). My car originally had the base stereo setup (2x front, 2x rear, 2x subs).

What I can tell you, is that there are some strange cable setups (which some people refer to as capacitors) on the cabling loom for the speakers on each side of the car. I bypassed these by cutting the cables and installing new speaker wire to the amp on each side, but some research into what they actually do might give you the answer you're looking for?

I replaced the BMW Professional radio with an aftermarket android head unit which has FR/FL/RR/RL/SUB RCA outputs.
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      02-03-2018, 08:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EffectOne View Post
The 100w RMS was precisely what attracted me to the amp. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question because I replaced the front speakers and subwoofers in my car (and added tweeters) at the same time as installing the amp (with an MB Quart 200.3 kit, £260 from Amazon). My car originally had the base stereo setup (2x front, 2x rear, 2x subs).

What I can tell you, is that there are some strange cable setups (which some people refer to as capacitors) on the cabling loom for the speakers on each side of the car. I bypassed these by cutting the cables and installing new speaker wire to the amp on each side, but some research into what they actually do might give you the answer you're looking for?

I replaced the BMW Professional radio with an aftermarket android head unit which has FR/FL/RR/RL/SUB RCA outputs.
Ahh OK so you used RCA from your aftermarket HU. About those capacitor filter you found.. are you able to confirm what speaker lines they were connected.. only capacity I saw was on the tweeter.

Is there any filter on the underseat subwoofers wires.. there must be uless the filter is on the actuall sub.

Any help from fellow E90 owner be appreciated
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      02-03-2018, 08:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali-323i View Post
JL amps accept the inputs and offer a wide range of 4, 5, and 6 channel amps that work well in our cars.
JL amps cost several times more than that Pionner Class D amp though.
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      02-03-2018, 08:52 PM   #38
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these capacitors are needed when both low frequency and mid frequency speakers are connected on one channel, as made in base system
since you plan to use aftermarket headunit you will lose pdc sounds, this is why even base system have front/rear separation and why front mids and basses are bridged on on circuit
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      02-04-2018, 03:15 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EffectOne View Post
I installed a Pioneer GM-D6804 (4 channel amp) into my car and have been very happy with the result. I bought it here:

https://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/pro...04_p-32190.htm
Hi
Thatís a good deal.
I havenít found a cheaper amp than this.

I have 4 rca outputs on my pioneer HU. Would I use all 4 or just front?

With regards to running speaker cable.
I was hoping to tap into the existing speaker wire at the back of the HU and then run the speaker wire from there. You rub this down the left of the car? Along with rca cables.
Remote cable I take it you ran down the right
Any kits you recommended or brand for the wires?
Have you got any pics of the install?
Iím hoping to install the amp in the storage area under the boot lid.

Thanks again
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      02-04-2018, 06:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayek View Post
About those capacitor filter you found.. are you able to confirm what speaker lines they were connected.. only capacity I saw was on the tweeter.
They connected the subwoofers and front door speakers onto the same circuit. Given what is said above, I now assume their purpose is to act as a kind of crossover to ensure the subs and door speakers only receive certain frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayek View Post
Is there any filter on the underseat subwoofers wires.. there must be uless the filter is on the actuall sub.
I think the capacitors act as a filter/crossover.
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      02-04-2018, 06:37 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
You rub this down the left of the car? Along with rca cables.
Remote cable I take it you ran down the right
I ran two RCA cable pairs, front door speaker cable, subwoofer speaker cable and the remote ignition cable down the passenger side (just because it was more convenient/easier to run the cables through the dash to the passenger side, rather than through the steering column area). Down the driver side I just have front door speaker cable and subwoofer speaker cable.

This actually proved to be quite convenient. With the amp drawing power from the positive terminal on the battery (which is on the driver side in the boot), and the ground wire being connected to a chassis bolt in the centre of the boot, the majority of the speaker cable comes in from the opposite side and interference with the power cable is reduced significantly.

My replacement rear speakers are simply connected to the original wiring and (I presume) are run through the aftermarket head unit quadlock connector into the original BMW harness. I have two rear RCA outputs remaining to be used, so I could consider hooking these up if I was to upgrade to a 6 channel amp in the future. For the time being, that was outside of budget unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
I have 4 rca outputs on my pioneer HU. Would I use all 4 or just front?
I think this would depend upon what you are doing. If you were to copy the setup I have, you would need to use all four outputs if you don't have a dedicated subwoofer output. The front left/right would go into channel A on the amp and power the door speakers/tweeters (if you have them - I didn't have any originally and added a pair). The rear left/right would go to channel B on the amp and power the subwoofers. The amp has built in high and low pass filters which you can use for each channel (high pass or off for door speakers, subject to preference, and low pass for subwoofers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
Any kits you recommended or brand for the wires?
I used this kit from Halfords for wiring up the amp and subwoofers. The power and ground wires are decent. The flat speaker cable for the subwoofers is excellent. The kit also comes with an inline 60amp fuse for the power cable, which as I understand it is the fuse size you need for the Pioneer amp, and a good quality RCA pair cable

http://www.halfords.com/technology/c...ier-wiring-kit

To complete my install, I had to buy an additional RCA pair cable and some extra speaker wire for the front door speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
Have you got any pics of the install?
I’m hoping to install the amp in the storage area under the boot lid.
Unfortunately, I don't. However, I haven't put the door sill trims back on yet, because I want to make sure everything is settled and no interference is happening before I do (easy to take off, but I have a feeling they're going to be a pain in the arse to put back on!). So, I'll take a video on my phone later to show as much as I can and upload it.

I installed my amp in that exact location, as you'll see.

Last edited by EffectOne; 02-04-2018 at 06:51 AM.
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      02-04-2018, 10:39 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali-323i View Post
JL amps accept the inputs and offer a wide range of 4, 5, and 6 channel amps that work well in our cars.
JL amps cost several times more than that Pionner Class D amp though.
I found a used one in great condition for a steal of a deal. Sometimes you get lucky! Just be sure to test before you buy if going the used route.
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      02-04-2018, 11:06 AM   #43
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You guy have clearly invested some money to take the music to next level, they look very well put together and must sound great.

I am just looking to get a little kick from the lame speakers.

I did get a Alpine Kit from BMW ebay for a good price but my HU needs coding so further cost and I returned it. I want to be able to change the EQ on occasions depending on music
I have moved to different path to upgrade the base audio.

I already fitted Hi-Fi tweeter on the door powered from the BMW HU. It has improved.

But then i found this radio. Built in Class D amp that pushes 4x40w RMS.
https://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur/products/mvh-280fd

The 40w to the fronts has really woken up the speaker specifically the subs. Can actually hear some bass. This radio is way more power than the normal aftermarket HU with 4x50w MOSFET and only cost me £85 and £25 adapter to retain the steering control and parking sensor.

But I feel the HU rear 40W is being wasted on the rear door speaker so i wanted to split the wiring between the front speaker and Sub and wire the subs to rear channel.

I am guessing the LPF for the understand sub is on the wiring harness so if i take wires direct from HU i need to add these filters.
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      02-04-2018, 11:08 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertml View Post
Have you got any pics of the install?
As promised:





p.s. If any of you who know what they're doing can see anything hilariously wrong with this setup, please do let me know. I am trying to diagnose an occasional dropout of the left door speakers at the moment. I suspect one of my crimps may not be properly done, so that is the first thing I'll be trying.
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