[07lilredwagon]

In the pic above, the lower red/blue wire crimps are not engaged...or so it looks....dialectric grease works wonders....

in other news,

dont know if this helps...but it might add some general insight.

I had an overcharging issue on another make of vehicle and it sent the charging system into a tizzy...burning out the ECU!

The voltage regulator in that other vehicle resided inside the ECU.

The problem was a circuit for the charging system that sounds very similar to what is described in this thread that contains the water pump, IBS I think, and one or two other items.

I got a replacement ECU and performed an "external voltage regulatorectomy", taking the regulator out of the loop and installing a more traditional one on the fender wall. guess what? I burned that one out too...luckily, it did not involve the ECU and was only 30.00.

So what was the problem?....it took days and days to find it....I changed ground straps, battery cables, alternators, plugs, fuses, you name it...to no avail.

Then I read about a guy who was having a similar problem. I had to read the thread several times and then it clicked. The source wire voltage for the regulator/alternator was lower than the battery voltage because of corrosion in the wiring. This told the regulator that the voltage was too low...always....especially when things got hot under the hood. shutting the truck off and turning it back on was the only way to reset the system.

That same wire also went to the gauge...which continued to flip out, pegging past 18v and panicking me in the process...

I ran a source wire right from the battery, fused it, and ran that to the regulator. Now the regulator knows exactly what the actual voltage really is...so only charges the system when it needs to. Now the truck runs at 13.8-14.5 with no dips or spikes.

To confirm my findings on the trucks gauges, I hooked up a volt meter to the cigarette lighter and read the voltage...the gauge and meter read the same. I also get the same voltage at the battery...all good.

why the long winded story?.....I think there is an answer in there somewhere for someone who knows more than I do....Im thinking a faulty connector is creating resistance in a feed wire on that circuit.....fuse box?...could be...

ECU/TUNE....could be....but more than likely, its corrosion/bad connection.

JP

PS...I did find corrosion UNDER the sheathing on my old battery wires...they looked fine on the outside.

PPS...try a continuity test/ohms resistance test on any feed wires....at rest, any 12v source wires should read the same as the battery......

[DriveBikeRun]

Thanks, that is helpful. I'm also thinking that it's a bad connector or resistance in a wire that only surfaces under heat and high load conditions. I had a competent tech test the alternator and voltage regulator, including the feed line, I thought. But I think it was all tested at rest or idle, not under the WOT load condition that it takes to trigger it. I may ping him again to see if my more recent codes involving voltage spikes would lead him in a different direction.

Do you mind to explain further what you mean about the crimp in the picture? I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

[DriveBikeRun]

Ok, I think my issue is finally SOLVED!!! Car has been at the dealer since last Friday with a very methodical tech who wasn't afraid of the tune. Left the tune installed so the problem would be easier for him to replicate, even though I didn't think it was the root cause (and it wasn't).

He was able to observe the split second voltage spike while driving under heavy load, and subsequent BSD codes and limp mode. Diagnosed as bad alternator. Although I wasn't convinced that it was the root cause, couldn't deny that it tested bad, so had him replace it as a first step (covered by warranty).

With the new alternator, at first it seemed the voltage spikes were gone, but still getting BSD codes. So further testing with oscilloscope uncovered noise from the ignition coils (don't know exactly how he tested nor exactly what an oscilloscope is ). I had replaced the coils just before tuning back in May with Delphi 10571, which I thought were the correct replacement. He replaced with known good Bosch coils and voila, no voltage spikes, noise, or BSD codes. He said that there are different levels of quality even within the Delphi line and that mine were lower quality (something about insulation). So my Delphi 10571 weren't able to handle heavy loads. The Bosch were just something they had laying around from another car, so he's going to put in the correct Delphi coils, but I don't have that part # yet.

So his conclusion is that the coils were not insulated enough and were sending a voltage spike though the system which damaged the alternator. I'll post up a picture of the coils side-by-side when I have it. Don't have the car back yet, but will obviously confirm the fix after some driving. But I feel pretty confident that it is fixed. Hope this helps some of you other guys!

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by DriveBikeRun

Ok, I think my issue is finally SOLVED!!! Car has been at the dealer since last Friday with a very methodical tech who wasn't afraid of the tune. Left the tune installed so the problem would be easier for him to replicate, even though I didn't think it was the root cause (and it wasn't).

He was able to observe the split second voltage spike while driving under heavy load, and subsequent BSD codes and limp mode. Diagnosed as bad alternator. Although I wasn't convinced that it was the root cause, couldn't deny that it tested bad, so had him replace it as a first step (covered by warranty).

With the new alternator, at first it seemed the voltage spikes were gone, but still getting BSD codes. So further testing with oscilloscope uncovered noise from the ignition coils (don't know exactly how he tested nor exactly what an oscilloscope is ). I had replaced the coils just before tuning back in May with Delphi 10571, which I thought were the correct replacement. He replaced with known good Bosch coils and voila, no voltage spikes, noise, or BSD codes. He said that there are different levels of quality even within the Delphi line and that mine were lower quality (something about insulation). So my Delphi 10571 weren't able to handle heavy loads. The Bosch were just something they had laying around from another car, so he's going to put in the correct Delphi coils, but I don't have that part # yet.

So his conclusion is that the coils were not insulated enough and were sending a voltage spike though the system which damaged the alternator. I'll post up a picture of the coils side-by-side when I have it. Don't have the car back yet, but will obviously confirm the fix after some driving. But I feel pretty confident that it is fixed. Hope this helps some of you other guys!

Very interesting.
There is a what BMW calls "interferences suppression" small braided ground strap that is on the exhaust side of the engine and grounds to body on the side there. I wonder if this is loose at the connection and with heat it gets looser, being right on top of the exhaust manifolds.

[DriveBikeRun]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Very interesting.
There is a what BMW calls "interferences suppression" small braided ground strap that is on the exhaust side of the engine and grounds to body on the side there. I wonder if this is loose at the connection and with heat it gets looser, being right on top of the exhaust manifolds.

Good thought, but final diagnosis and fix was coils. Here's the summary as explained by the dealer tech:

Root cause:

Aftermarket Delphi coils sending voltage spikes back through the "ignition" circuit due to insufficient insulation.

Side effects:

BSD codes, alternator damaged by the coil voltage spikes, causing the alternator to send its own voltage spikes through the charging circuit

Diagnostic path and fix:

1) Replaced alternator after observing it spiking voltage on charging circuit; new alternator does not spike voltage, but BSD codes still present (and related drop to battery voltage when present)

2) So tested other components on BSD line - all good; then tested ignition circuit and observed a separate voltage spike on that circuit coming from the coils (not a misfire in combustion chamber, so no misfire codes). Replaced coils with genuine OEM coils and these voltage spikes disappeared.

Tech said that the aftermarket Delphi coils apparently aren't insulated as well as OEM as they have seen problems with them. Side by side of aftermarket Delphi coil vs OEM Delphi coil show a difference in the insulating material on top and who knows on the inside. OEM is the top one in the pic.

Before the part replacements, tech was also able to replicate the problem at will. Picked it up today and so far so good. Will update if anything changes.

[houtan]

Thanks for figuring this out. I had a similar issue about a year ago. Here’s my thread: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1419571

Never really figure out what was causing the issue. It kind of went away after reflashing my mhd map.

Went to a half mile race a month or so later and my car went crazy on the last run of the day. It was hot that day, more than 90 degrees. Here is the video:

After reading this thread and another that links to this one, you know what I realized? I had just installed new coil packs when all of this started, and they are Delphis!!!!

[racermp]

good job,. i did change my coils from fcp euro, but i never saw this problem for a a long time after that. damn didn't think this would be a connection to the issue.

good job guy. glad it helped. would you like me to post this as a solution on the first page for other users?

[juld0zer]

That's amazing, thanks for chasing it to the end. Despite all the blood and sweat, it is for the better of the community to put this issue to bed.

Going back to the junction box issue, you need to examine the male terminal for arcing marks on the surface and also closely examine the female connector also for arcing marks. But usually you can tell there is damage without removing the junction box. Just look for the brown burn marks on the back side of where the B+ connector is. That will prompt you to inspect the connector properly.

If your car has had the recall done, it should never happen again if it was done properly.

[DriveBikeRun]

Originally Posted by houtan

Thanks for figuring this out. I had a similar issue about a year ago. Here’s my thread: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1419571

Never really figure out what was causing the issue. It kind of went away after reflashing my mhd map.

Went to a half mile race a month or so later and my car went crazy on the last run of the day. It was hot that day, more than 90 degrees. Here is the video:

After reading this thread and another that links to this one, you know what I realized? I had just installed new coil packs when all of this started, and they are Delphis!!!!

No problem, glad it helped! I just read your thread on 1addicts...does sound like the same problem, although yours isn't as frequent. I could make mine throw BSD codes almost any day by going WOT, and would progress to limp mode on hotter days. I would know the BSD codes were present even without limp mode because the water pump would continue running after turning the engine off.

Are you still having the problem and going to replace aftermarket Delphis with OEM Delphis? You might want to clarify in your 1addicts thread that the problem was "aftermarket" Delphis.

Originally Posted by racermp

good job,. i did change my coils from fcp euro, but i never saw this problem for a a long time after that. damn didn't think this would be a connection to the issue.

good job guy. glad it helped. would you like me to post this as a solution on the first page for other users?

Dang, you fixed it and didn't know it . I think it would be a good idea to post the solution in the first post. Thanks! The only qualification I would make is that it is possible there could be a deeper root cause, meaning something else damaged the coils, but time will tell on that. We can update the solution later if needed.

I have been driving the piss out of the car for a week with no more BSD codes or limp mode . I have however had two other codes reoccur that I had seen back when I was having the mess of 20+ codes. They are "387F: Power Management: closed-circuit current violation" and "E18F: Central Registry does not match the target configuration". I've already talked to my dealer tech about them and going to take it back in soon. Could be a deeper root cause, but he thinks probably just residual damage from the voltage spikes. Aftermarket warranty company not going to be happy with me as they've already paid over $2K, but need to get any residual issues cleaned up while it's fresh in everyone's mind.

Originally Posted by juld0zer

That's amazing, thanks for chasing it to the end. Despite all the blood and sweat, it is for the better of the community to put this issue to bed.

Going back to the junction box issue, you need to examine the male terminal for arcing marks on the surface and also closely examine the female connector also for arcing marks. But usually you can tell there is damage without removing the junction box. Just look for the brown burn marks on the back side of where the B+ connector is. That will prompt you to inspect the connector properly.

If your car has had the recall done, it should never happen again if it was done properly.

Thanks, I am stubborn if nothing else and sometimes it pays off!

Yeah, I had the dash and junction box open when I took it into the dealer and they looked at it, too. I suspected it, but it really looked fine and they agreed. I'm not sure why mine wasn't in the recall VIN range, but it wasn't. Mine is an Oct '11 build and I think the recall VIN range ended back in June '11 (read that somewhere else). Tech was fine with looking at it, but explained how the voltage spikes they were seeing couldn't have been coming from the junction box...something about the wiring diagram that was over my head, lol. But if anybody is having a no-start condition, they should definitely look at the B+ connector.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DriveBikeRun

No problem, glad it helped! I just read your thread on 1addicts...does sound like the same problem, although yours isn't as frequent. I could make mine throw BSD codes almost any day by going WOT, and would progress to limp mode on hotter days. I would know the BSD codes were present even without limp mode because the water pump would continue running after turning the engine off.

Are you still having the problem and going to replace aftermarket Delphis with OEM Delphis? You might want to clarify in your 1addicts thread that the problem was "aftermarket" Delphis.

Yeah, mine doesn't happen very frequently. After the half mile pull meltdown, I had zero issues until last month where the red battery light came on and the alternator stopped charging the battery. I also haven't been to another race event so not sure if the more strenuous conditions would cause the issue to come up.

I plan to update my thread once I get my original coilpacks back on. They were actually fine, I just replaced them since I was installing my PS2 and had everything apart.

[racermp]

Originally Posted by DriveBikeRun

Dang, you fixed it and didn't know it . I think it would be a good idea to post the solution in the first post. Thanks! The only qualification I would make is that it is possible there could be a deeper root cause, meaning something else damaged the coils, but time will tell on that. We can update the solution later if needed.

I have been driving the piss out of the car for a week with no more BSD codes or limp mode . I have however had two other codes reoccur that I had seen back when I was having the mess of 20+ codes. They are "387F: Power Management: closed-circuit current violation" and "E18F: Central Registry does not match the target configuration". I've already talked to my dealer tech about them and going to take it back in soon. Could be a deeper root cause, but he thinks probably just residual damage from the voltage spikes. Aftermarket warranty company not going to be happy with me as they've already paid over $2K, but need to get any residual issues cleaned up while it's fresh in everyone's mind.

oh haha no i changed my coils over a year ago. but the problem appeared a few months after, i never thought it would be related to the delphi coils. oh well, car is gone. glad this will help alot of people tho.

[Pladi]

Can you guys confirm that replacing the coils fixed this issue 100 % ? Are the bosch coils a good option ?

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can you guys confirm that replacing the coils fixed this issue 100 % ? Are the bosch coils a good option ?

It’s never a guarantee as every car is different. Only way to really know is to try.

I have only tried stock and Delphi coils, so whatever you end up using, please post back and let us know how things go. I am going back to my stock coils, which have about 47k miles on them, tomorrow so I will post back how it goes. But I would like to change them out in the near future but do not know what brand to get. I am refusing to get the PR coils, because I think it’s ridiculous they will not fit with the stock intake without modification. I am not running a stock intake, so not an issue for my particular setup. But I can’t get over the fact that a replacement coil pack specifically for the n55 could not be designed to fit the stock intake.

Right now, I get the red battery light more frequently when I go wot so for now I am reverting to the stock coils. Fingers are crossed that is the fix for now.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by houtan

It’s never a guarantee as every car is different. Only way to really know is to try.

I have only tried stock and Delphi coils, so whatever you end up using, please post back and let us know how things go. I am going back to my stock coils, which have about 47k miles on them, tomorrow so I will post back how it goes. But I would like to change them out in the near future but do not know what brand to get. I am refusing to get the PR coils, because I think it’s ridiculous they will not fit with the stock intake without modification. I am not running a stock intake, so not an issue for my particular setup. But I can’t get over the fact that a replacement coil pack specifically for the n55 could not be designed to fit the stock intake.

Right now, I get the red battery light more frequently when I go wot so for now I am reverting to the stock coils. Fingers are crossed that is the fix for now.

Well let me tell you my story so you know why i am asking.

I am using Delphi coils from fcp euro. Have had them installed for like 2 years. ZERO issues.

Until. I flashed a new MHD map. Stage 1 +. Right after that had this issue.

I am positive it has something to do with the tune. Its too great of a coincidence. Now it can be a combination of coils + tune but i doubt just coils.

After turning the car on again i didnt see the issue. Flashed back.

The issue probably happens due to a over current load on the alternator regulator during full throttle or higher load. OR its an actual SW issue after flashing. Some type of corruption. It can also be interference but why after flashing MHD..

Anyhow i need alot more data from my car to be sure.

My first action will be reflash MHD back down. Then monitor the batt voltage on highway.

If it happens again get bosch coils Monitor again Changes.

If it still happens i plan on removing MHD to check things again.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Well let me tell you my story so you know why i am asking.

I am using Delphi coils from fcp euro. Have had them installed for like 2 years. ZERO issues.

Until. I flashed a new MHD map. Stage 1 +. Right after that had this issue.

I am positive it has something to do with the tune. Its too great of a coincidence. Now it can be a combination of coils + tune but i doubt just coils.

After turning the car on again i didnt see the issue. Flashed back.

The issue probably happens due to a over current load on the alternator regulator during full throttle or higher load. OR its an actual SW issue after flashing. Some type of corruption. It can also be interference but why after flashing MHD..

Anyhow i need alot more data from my car to be sure.

My first action will be reflash MHD back down. Then monitor the batt voltage on highway.

If it happens again get bosch coils Monitor again Changes.

If it still happens i plan on removing MHD to check things again.

You had them installed for two years on stock boost?

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by houtan

You had them installed for two years on stock boost?

Yes stock and PPK mixed. But not MHD. Although it worked fine with MHD ACN stage 1. As soon as i installed stage 1 + boom. Issue happened right away.

I am convinced without MHD i would never see this issue.

I ONLY got the 384A code for generator. Battery was not being charged and eventually got the battery icon.

After restarting the car nothing. Ill test it more today. Wonder why more people dont see this problem. Could be a mix of coil/mhd map.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Yes stock and PPK mixed. But not MHD. Although it worked fine with MHD ACN stage 1. As soon as i installed stage 1 + boom. Issue happened right away.

I am convinced without MHD i would never see this issue.

I ONLY got the 384A code for generator. Battery was not being charged and eventually got the battery icon.

After restarting the car nothing. Ill test it more today. Wonder why more people dont see this problem. Could be a mix of coil/mhd map.

I don’t think it’s a flaw in MHD. But when you start asking for more boost and making more power other shortcomings will start to reveal themselves and maybe that is why you’re seeing it in stage one plus. because it’s putting additional strain on the hardware.

Having said that, even on map 0 it is happening for me now. So it’s getting worse over time maybe because whatever the flaw is, is getting worse in the coilpack.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by houtan

I don’t think it’s a flaw in MHD. But when you start asking for more boost and making more power other shortcomings will start to reveal themselves and maybe that is why you’re seeing it in stage one plus. because it’s putting additional strain on the hardware.

Having said that, even on map 0 it is happening for me now. So it’s getting worse over time maybe because whatever the flaw is, is getting worse in the coilpack.

Did you ever replace the coils to stock ? Sorry i missed if you said you did and same issue.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Did you ever replace the coils to stock ? Sorry i missed if you said you did and same issue.

Not yet. Hopefully tomorrow. That’s what I was saying in my post earlier.

[vespa]

Originally Posted by DriveBikeRun

Root cause:

Aftermarket Delphi coils sending voltage spikes back through the "ignition" circuit due to insufficient insulation.

That's not an "aftermarket Delphi coil" in your pic, it's a fake coil made by counterfeiters in a Chinese prison labor camp. One of the telltale signs is the shiny plastic which is obviously not the proper GF30 glass reinforced nylon.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by vespa

That's not an "aftermarket Delphi coil" in your pic, it's a fake coil made by counterfeiters in a Chinese prison labor camp. One of the telltale signs is the shiny plastic which is obviously not the proper GF30 glass reinforced nylon.

Does this look like a fake Delphi? Purchased from rock auto last year.

[vespa]

RockAuto specializes in counterfeit components and while many of their parts are real and many of the fake ones still work just fine, you'd be wise to make any purchases there under the assumption that the parts will be illegal knock-offs.

Delphi uses 30% glass filled nylon 4/6 made by DSM and you will see DSM's >PA 46< markings on each plastic component if your part is real. You can see those markings along with the GF30 (Glass Fill 30%) in the part on the right in the attached pic. Note also that glass fiber filling gives parts a distinct sparkly texture whereas the fake parts are smooth and shiny like the recycled trash bags from which they were made.