[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by Ruddigger

Find me a 335 wagon please.

Exactly! Wagons don't have that option... I'm actually thinking of building one, I love wagons.. A 500hp N52 M3 Fendered wagon would be sick! and practical..

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

automatic, 325i, in an E91.. duh, it was underpowered.

Yup. Slow as balls. Thanks bmw.

Shame their never offered a manual n54 wagon in the states.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

Exactly! Wagons don't have that option... I'm actually thinking of building one, I love wagons.. A 500hp N52 M3 Fendered wagon would be sick! and practical..

Fwiw the wagon doesn't have nearly as much space as I hoped. I really thought it would be a space upgrade compared to the e90. No such luck. Wagons do look cool, well the newer ones that is.

[PhaseP]

That is impressive work, especially considering it is used as daily driver.

I think BMW had its own set of design goals, like trying to minimize turbo lag, have boost as early as possible in the torque curve for drivability and impress drivers doing test drives, and minimize cost (As Hassmachine mentioned probably explains the head choice in N54).

DigiDon's goals were not same.

Whatever it is, that is just impressive working results!!!

[Ruddigger]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

Exactly! Wagons don't have that option... I'm actually thinking of building one, I love wagons.. A 500hp N52 M3 Fendered wagon would be sick! and practical..

Please do.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Fwiw the wagon doesn't have nearly as much space as I hoped. I really thought it would be a space upgrade compared to the e90. No such luck. Wagons do look cool, well the newer ones that is.

It's big enough for me - the E60 is bigger but it's a barge. I already had a giant barge of a car (Subaru), and the E91 is still basically 3800lb a land yacht. I wish I'd have taken a picture of the packing job I did this summer - 3 adults, 2 kids, 2 dogs, camping gear for the weekend, plus bikes and gear for a race they did. Still handled the mountain pass with ease (the Subaru, if you want to talk about gutless, couldn't go the speed limit uphill on the same roads - floored in 4th gear, it topped out at about 45mph).

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by alx.

I'm also interested in 0-60 times and 1/4 mile N52 ftw.

Theoretically and according to my somewhat crude calculations, with the low boost curve, it would do 0-60 in 3.6 secs and 1/4 mile in 7.3 secs. But this assumes his tires will not spin, which I suspect they will in 1st gear. The above number assumes shifting at 7K rpm from 1st to 2nd, which yields 1.45 g acceleration at 1st gear for some duration, tires probably won't be able hold that g.

To keep acceleration below 1g, 1st to 2nd gear shift can be done at about 3700 rpm, and that would give 4.8 seconds 0-60 and 8.1 sec 1/4 mile.

If shifts at 3700 rpm from 1st to 2nd gear, the numbers are close to N54 335 again going by my theoretical calculations. I have 4.8 secs 0-60 and 8.3 1/4 mile for N54.

At low gear the tire spin will be limiting factor. Even at low boost, it has 1.8 times more torque than N54, assuming 15% drive train loss. That means 1.8 times more g's for the tire to deal with.

Above 2nd gear it would really shine since tire spin won't be limiting factor, and can shift at redline without spin which allows using the best part of the torque curve.

I also calculated max speed 160 mph for N54, 196 mph for DigiDon's with low boost.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Theoretically and according to my somewhat crude calculations, with the low boost curve, it would do 0-60 in 3.6 secs and 1/4 mile in 7.3 secs. But this assumes his tires will not spin, which I suspect they will in 1st gear. The above number assumes shifting at 7K rpm from 1st to 2nd, which yields 1.45 g acceleration at 1st gear for some duration, tires probably won't be able hold that g.

To keep acceleration below 1g, 1st to 2nd gear shift can be done at about 3700 rpm, and that would give 4.8 seconds 0-60 and 8.1 sec 1/4 mile.

If shifts at 3700 rpm from 1st to 2nd gear, the numbers are close to N54 335 again going by my theoretical calculations. I have 4.8 secs 0-60 and 8.3 1/4 mile for N54.

At low gear the tire spin will be limiting factor. Even at low boost, it has 1.8 times more torque than N54, assuming 15% drive train loss. That means 1.8 times more g's for the tire to deal with.

Above 2nd gear it would really shine since tire spin won't be limiting factor, and can shift at redline without spin which allows using the best part of the torque curve.

I also calculated max speed 160 mph for N54, 196 mph for DigiDon's with low boost.

come on man , its a fast car but I highly doubt it would get anywhere close to 8.3 in a 1/4 . I ll be surprise if it goes below 10s . More like low 11s or high 10s

Not even a GTR or Veyron get below 10s in a 1/4 mile

[Torgus]

your math is whacky and makes no sense...lets shift at 3700?

[JDane07]

I think you need to replace all your "1/4 mile" for "1/8 mile".
This car would probably run in the 12's on a good day.

[hassmaschine]

yeah, jeeze, 8's..

if you want to know what 1/4 and 0-60 is, just look up a similar powered 335i. Same car.

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Theoretically and according to my somewhat crude calculations, with the low boost curve, it would do 0-60 in 3.6 secs and 1/4 mile in 7.3 secs. But this assumes his tires will not spin, which I suspect they will in 1st gear. The above number assumes shifting at 7K rpm from 1st to 2nd, which yields 1.45 g acceleration at 1st gear for some duration, tires probably won't be able hold that g.

To keep acceleration below 1g, 1st to 2nd gear shift can be done at about 3700 rpm, and that would give 4.8 seconds 0-60 and 8.1 sec 1/4 mile.

If shifts at 3700 rpm from 1st to 2nd gear, the numbers are close to N54 335 again going by my theoretical calculations. I have 4.8 secs 0-60 and 8.3 1/4 mile for N54.

At low gear the tire spin will be limiting factor. Even at low boost, it has 1.8 times more torque than N54, assuming 15% drive train loss. That means 1.8 times more g's for the tire to deal with.

Above 2nd gear it would really shine since tire spin won't be limiting factor, and can shift at redline without spin which allows using the best part of the torque curve.

I also calculated max speed 160 mph for N54, 196 mph for DigiDon's with low boost.

[JDane07]

I'm pretty sure he was just trollin'...

Or he has never seen a 1/4 mile run for any car, ever.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by JDane07

I think you need to replace all your "1/4 mile" for "1/8 mile".
This car would probably run in the 12's on a good day.

on max boost , i m sure he can do 11's . There was a similar 335 with over 500whp doing 11s in a 1/4 mile , read it a while back

But I don't think he can run it on high boost yet.

[PhaseP]

Going back to my spreadsheet I did have an error on distance calculation with multiplier.
For stock N54 335 my theoretical calculations are:
[Edited after correction of wrong entry of torque values for DigiDon's]
0-60mph: 4.8 sec
0-100mph: 11.6 secs
0-0.25 mile: 13.5 secs
0-0.5 mile: 21 secs

DigiDon's low boost curve shifting at 7K rpm, tires may not hold road due to reaching 1.15 g's at 1st gear
0-60mph: 3.9 sec
0-100mph: 7.8 secs
0-0.25 mile: 12 secs
0-0.5 mile: 18.4 secs

DigiDon's low boost curve shifting at 3800 rpm at 1st to 2nd to keep the acceleration at 1g, rest at 7K rpm:
0-60mph: 4.9 sec
0-100mph: 8.8 secs
0-0.25 mile: 12.7 secs
0-0.5 mile: 19.1 secs

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by JDane07

I'm pretty sure he was just trollin'...

Or he has never seen a 1/4 mile run for any car, ever.

I had written a spreadsheet a long time ago for those calculations, now modified it to match the posted curve. Up until now, I had never paid attention distance calculations before. Now that you guys pointed out I found it had a multiplier error for distance.

Me da troll!

Thanks for the correction!
It still may have some errors, it is a hobby for me.
It is theoretical, doesn't account initial take off clutch slipping, doesn't take into account shift times and other things.

I assumed the DigiDon's posted curves are on the wheel numbers and assumed 15% loss on N54 engine numbers to the wheel.

I couldn't attach the spreadsheets to the forum due to size restrictions.

If anybody is interested you can view from these links each:

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AgZqKH4n6AkahtEXb_juULdJt__aKg
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AgZqKH4n6AkahtEYqKHCZyyxIGsUtw

If you want to edit, you need to click the ... on the right upper corner and choose download.

[PhaseP]

Screw all that...

I guess I didn't get enough sleep lately.

I just noticed I mixed up some of the power number vs torque when I was entering them to the spreadsheet for the DigiDon's, which made it 460 max torque at low boost, which is the power number not torque..

Blah....

[Later: corrected the torque numbers of the curve in the spreadsheet I gave link to]

[Torgus]

With these cars power isn't the issue. It's getting a good 60 and a good run in is. Especially with the 6mt. Also the e92 is limited with the size of tire it can run.

[PhaseP]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

if you want to know what 1/4 and 0-60 is, just look up a similar powered 335i. Same car.

They have very different torque curve shapes and so they will have different characteristics.

Factory 335i has torque curve that comes up early and stays flat but droops towards the end of the rpm range.

This boosted N52 builds up torque from low to midrange and then stays flat close to redline.

It has more peak torque than stock N54's peak torque. The area under curve will matter and gearing ratios will matter. Even with low boost, this engine has more performance than stock N54, but will not be as driver friendly as N54. That is my view anyways...

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

They have very different torque curve shapes and so they will have different characteristics.

Factory 335i has torque curve that comes up early and stays flat but droops towards the end of the rpm range.

This boosted N52 builds up torque from low to midrange and then stays flat close to redline.

It has more peak torque than stock N54's peak torque. The area under curve will matter and gearing ratios will matter. Even with low boost, this engine has more performance than stock N54, but will not be as driver friendly as N54. That is my view anyways...

A linear power band like a single turbo is better vs the massive tq spike the n54 has because of the small turbos. Much more predictable imo. For street and track.

Also if we want to compare apples to apples overlay a stock turbos n54 on 100% e85 vs. This single on high boost. Comparing to 93 numbers doesn't make sense imo.

[PhaseP]

A linear power band like a single turbo is better vs the massive tq spike the n54 has because of the small turbos. Much more predictable imo. For street and track.

I see what you are saying, with torque at upper band of rpm, you would expect it to come as you are accelerating.

Also if we want to compare apples to apples overlay a stock turbos n54 on 100% e85 vs. This single on high boost. Comparing to 93 numbers doesn't make sense imo.

My point was, which these curves also show, with N54 (stock curve or this above curve), the best part of the torque curve is up to 5K rpm, then it drops.

DigiDon's curves, the best part is at the top of the torque curve from 4.5 K rpm to 6500 rpm.

If one would be trying to accelerate as fast as possible, after the 1st gear, the region that would used is upper range, like the DigiDon's 4.5K to redline.
So from what I see DigiDon's would have better performance due to this.

On the other hand if one were to be cruising at say 2.5k rpm, and suddenly wanted to overtake, N54 early rpm power band would be easier to use, just depress the gas pedal.
On DigiDon's one might need to drop a gear first to get to high rpm range. But once it is there, it would pull

Don't know how the turbo lag would compare, that I believe is a measure about throttle response and the torque curves won't directly show. I would expect two smaller turbo's of N54 will have less turbo lag.

And for comparison of the curve you posted, the mid boost curves DigiDon posted have same torque numbers, but better power because it does the same torque at higher rpm.

[6ixSpd]

Holy shit the low boost looks absolutely perfect. Making power all the way to redline - AMAZING WORK!