[topfuel67]

On my 2009 335i I kept getting the Engine Malfunction warning (not just a check engine light, but the display actually warned Engine Malfunction). After scanning it I got the Vanos sensor codes. Replaced them all. Several times and kept getting same codes, finally getting ones from BMW. So figure that I need to replace the cam ledge seals. Now with everything apart with the QR codes approaching 12 O'clock, they are not lining up to get the tool on. When one is at 12, the other is not. So, does this mean I need a new timing chain? The car was running fine before these codes. It hasn't been tampered with since it was running fine and passed CA smog. 123k miles. Original chain, and doesn't seem to be opened up this deep prior.

[dmckmc]

where are you in the process? timing tool is needed near the end when cams are still independently turnable and not yet bolted to the chain sprockets.

[topfuel67]

I took the valve cover and intake manifold off. I am about to take both cam trays out. From what I see the process is to put both QR codes up, lock the cams with the tool and then put the pin through the flywheel. Then unbolt cam sprockets and so on.
If the tool is not lining up now, how will it line up putting it back together? Or do I just remove the tension bolt to line them up?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

I don't know if that means you need a new chain but if it doesn't line it up to me it means it wasn't perfectly in time and maybe that was the source. But then idk why it would have changed time.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by topfuel67

I took the valve cover and intake manifold off. I am about to take both cam trays out. From what I see the process is to put both QR codes up, lock the cams with the tool and then put the pin through the flywheel. Then unbolt cam sprockets and so on.
If the tool is not lining up now, how will it line up putting it back together? Or do I just remove the tension bolt to line them up?

Yeah you should use the locking cam tools to keep rpessure while you unbolt the cam sprocket than just with the pin alone.

When you will re-time everything, you align the cam shaft tools before slipping the timing chain and tightening the tensioner, so they lock in place and then you put the chain around the sprockets.

[topfuel67]

With it out this far, I am confused. I guess I am going to line up the flywheel with the QRs as close to 12 (but which one?). Then I have to disassemble without using the tool. There's no way to get them to line up. So do I just unbolt stuff free hand?

[dmckmc]

Edit to first comment....this video may help. timing is not set until near the end. When he sets TDC near the beginning and inserts the flywheel tool, both QR codes are up?! While I know the cams move independently, I believe they may only move with oil pressure? Sorry but now I'm second guessing my comments and I've done this job on my car! You may have more going on though it seems you would have terrible misfires with timing that far off.

[topfuel67]

So this is normal to be this far off before disassembly?
Thank you to everyone for their help!

[dmckmc]

see my edited comment above. if you jumped timing or stretched the chain does the vanos try to correct for it and can't so you get a vanos code? Or would you get misfire codes first? Did the car run poorly? you could use a dowel or screwdriver in cylinder 1 to check where the actual TDC is then see where the QR codes line up.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Frankly I'm not sure, I'm not professional mechanic, but I did camshaft bearing job on my own car and they were 12 o clock when I pinned the crankshaft to TDC. So to me, your engine is currently not timed 100%, but maybe enough to be like that much of an issue perhaps? Since you only have VANOS codes, I'm also not sure if it would cause that. I think I've seen in the past slightly untimed engines just over time in Youtube videos but not sure if that happens or means stretched chain.

[topfuel67]

I have watched a few videos and they all seem to put the tool on for disassembly, except for the one posted above. The car ran fine prior to this last issue coming up. It actually still runs sort of ok. It idles fine, but had the codes for vanos as well as the power deactivation code. I researched the timing chain job and the one thing I don't want to get into is the crank hub bolt. 100 NM torque spec then a 360 degree turn. I really don't want to go through breaking that one loose! So I am on the fence of rolling the dice and lining it up properly. Or just taking it ... and doing the timing chain.
I appreciate everyone's input.

[BRG_N54]

Make sure cylinder 1 is at TDC, first step in verifying timing marks. I used a socket extension through spark plug hole #1. There are two positions of TDC for #1 cylinder, but only one will have the cams/crank lined up. Then pin the flywheel with the cam locking tool in place, before loosening anything. Mark the chain and sprockets with a sharpie to make sure it goes back together exactly the same.

[topfuel67]

I absolutely cannot get the cam locking tool on with the cams bolted down. I have rotated the engine over a dozen times and the QR codes never line up to get the tool on. I'm going to set the intake cam at 12 (if I continue to rotate then the exhaust cam reaches 12 and the intake is past) and try to pin. I'll keep going if the pin doesn't line up.

[dmckmc]

Originally Posted by BRG_N54

Make sure cylinder 1 is at TDC.....There are two positions of TDC for #1 cylinder, but only one will have the cams/crank lined up.

Thanks, this is the bit we were all blanking on! Give it another rotation and cams will line up properly.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by dmckmc

Thanks, this is the bit we were all blanking on! Give it another rotation and cams will line up properly.

Ehh this won't change anything in my experience. If the issue was at wrong TDC, then the cams would be aligned with QR code facing down. The fact that the cams do not align together means the engine is not in time perfectly at the current time IMO.

[topfuel67]

So I rotated a few more times. Even facing down they don't line up. I put a long skinny rod to make sure #1 piston is up. Intake cam facing up and pin in the flywheel (exhaust is behind the intake in the rotation). I took pictures and marked it how it is in the wrong position. When I install I'm going to line it up properly. But then I am putting it together different than it was. It ran fine before.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by topfuel67

So I rotated a few more times. Even facing down they don't line up. I put a long skinny rod to make sure #1 piston is up. Intake cam facing up and pin in the flywheel (exhaust is behind the intake in the rotation). I took pictures and marked it how it is in the wrong position. When I install I'm going to line it up properly. But then I am putting it together different than it was. It ran fine before.

Don't worry though when you re-assemble everything it will be lined up at it should anyways, as long as you make sure your crankshaft is pinned at TDC cyl 1. Furthermore, the BMW ISTA instructions tell you to refer to the back of the camshaft to know if it's in the right position, the QR codes are just unofficial.. Did you check that to to make sure?

This is why I was telling myself in the last comment... maybe that slight timing issue is your problem in regards to the VANOS codes? Like I'd almost want to put it back together with proper timing see if you still get them but I understand that's pretty lengthy to and if you have all the parts to go well I guess I'd replace bearing ledge to...

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

This is what I mean

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

And for your current situation. While your pinned TDC 1, I would release the chain tensioner so you can remove the chain on the ger and move the camshaft independently of crankshaft, before loosening the cam shaft bolts, that way you will then be able to move the camshaft that doesn't align to lock them in place with the tool, and then remove the central bolts. BMW does indeed specify to use locking tools to brace the camshaft so I'd do that.

[topfuel67]

First of all, thank you to everyone for the replies and help.
I installed the cam locking tool on the intake cam with the exhaust arm off. I lined up the intake cam perfectly to align in the tool. Then wiggled the breaker bar on the crank to see if I could get them both to align. Nope. I could get the exhaust one on at an angle, but it would break things if I tightened it down (I wonder if this why people have broken the tool on some Amazon reviews I saw). I got the #1 TDC, intake cam up with tool installed, pinned and will tear it down this way. Hopefully, this was the problem. I actually haven't put on too many miles. I bought this car with the injector malfunction. PO had put #12 injectors on cyl 1, 2 and 3, but 7s and 8s on 4,5&6. Went through the fake injector hassle only to spend $1800 on 3 real 12s from BMW. Anyways, it has ran fine for about 500 miles and even passed CA smog. Maybe it wasn't running great and I just don't know the car well enough. I really am not too impressed with it's power.

[topfuel67]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

And for your current situation. While your pinned TDC 1, I would release the chain tensioner so you can remove the chain on the ger and move the camshaft independently of crankshaft, before loosening the cam shaft bolts, that way you will then be able to move the camshaft that doesn't align to lock them in place with the tool, and then remove the central bolts. BMW does indeed specify to use locking tools to brace the camshaft so I'd do that.

I'll give that a try. I was planning on using the tool on the intake first, and then adjust to use it on the exhaust alone. I'm just taking my time on this one. I really don't want to do the timing chain or go deeper.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by topfuel67

I'll give that a try. I was planning on using the tool on the intake first, and then adjust to use it on the exhaust alone. I'm just taking my time on this one. I really don't want to do the timing chain or go deeper.

I guess you could do that to, in theory all the forces should lay on the intake side with the tool. But idk if it were me I'd just remove the chain off the gears to make sure and align the missaligned camshaft and then lock the tools. Removing the chain off the gears is part of this job, you don't have to touch the crankshaft bolt. You just remove the tensioner and you have enough loose chain to slip it off. It's all things you need to do for this job.