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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Hybrid Turbo options and comparisons



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      02-15-2017, 11:58 AM   #485
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Quote:
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...
The logged data shows the turbo responds better in 5th. For the same EWG setting, the boost is a bit higher and the EMP/Boost ratio is better.
Scratch that. After going into matchbot and accounting for the increased CACT temp during the 5th gear portion of the pull, the air flow numbers are not any better than 4th, even though the boost is higher (that matchbot tool is really helpful). One of the many reasons why it's important to look at other parameters than just boost...
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      02-20-2017, 01:51 PM   #486
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Mostly I would be intrested are you using stock R70 HPFP or did you upgrade it to R90?
Do you have any more information on that R90 pump? Perhaps a Bosch# ?
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      02-20-2017, 02:34 PM   #487
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Do we have a list of shops in the US who can currently upgrade 335d stock turbos directly to the end consumer?

Both LP and HP options?
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      02-22-2017, 06:07 AM   #488
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Do you have any more information on that R90 pump? Perhaps a Bosch# ?
Looks like E60 pre-LCI and X3 3.0d uses a R90 pump.. That must be plug'n'play ?
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      02-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #489
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THAT'S IT!!!!

I'm going Hybrid turbos....
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      02-23-2017, 02:44 PM   #490
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THAT'S IT!!!!

I'm going Hybrid turbos....
Oh boy, here we go.
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      02-23-2017, 03:20 PM   #491
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I mean - I'm dropping in a LSD and doing the Solid piped FMIC and xHP flash...why stop there
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      02-23-2017, 03:25 PM   #492
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I mean - I'm dropping in a LSD and doing the Solid piped FMIC and xHP flash...why stop there
Sure, then strip the interior completely, insert a roll cage, cut weight wherever possible, throw on some supersized drag slicks, and call it a day.
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      02-23-2017, 05:25 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
I mean - I'm dropping in a LSD and doing the Solid piped FMIC and xHP flash...why stop there
Sure, then strip the interior completely, insert a roll cage, cut weight wherever possible, throw on some supersized drag slicks, and call it a day.


Don't think I won't.....and drive this sucker every day too?!?!
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      02-23-2017, 05:38 PM   #494
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I mean - I'm dropping in a LSD and doing the Solid piped FMIC and xHP flash...why stop there
Are you making your own piping for the FMIC? What FMIC are you planning on running? With some small modifications it looks as if you can fit a larger one than the stepped intercooler offered. I think I may go that route to save some cost, have a larger intercooler, and be able to run a little better piping route with little larger piping. I was on another forum (I don't recall where) but someone did this with a Euro D and saw improvements in efficiency switching to different piping. Maybe a possible market for someone to make a larger/more cost efficient intercooler and piping kit. Getting rid of the stock connections would be great.
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      02-23-2017, 05:49 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
I mean - I'm dropping in a LSD and doing the Solid piped FMIC and xHP flash...why stop there
Are you making your own piping for the FMIC? What FMIC are you planning on running? With some small modifications it looks as if you can fit a larger one than the stepped intercooler offered. I think I may go that route to save some cost, have a larger intercooler, and be able to run a little better piping route with little larger piping. I was on another forum (I don't recall where) but someone did this with a Euro D and saw improvements in efficiency switching to different piping. Maybe a possible market for someone to make a larger/more cost efficient intercooler and piping kit. Getting rid of the stock connections would be great.
Not sure yet on the FMIC option. I have a couple weeks before I get everything back to install....so still doing research.
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      02-23-2017, 07:07 PM   #496
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THAT'S IT!!!!

I'm going Hybrid turbos....
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      04-05-2017, 03:34 AM   #497
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My friend E46 30d with factory injectors, 11 blade compressor weheel and Land Cruiser turnibne
(stock exhaust manifold and intake system).
I don't found the switch for complet asmod(temp by sensor after the cooler).
Anyone the damos for e46 204 eu4?

Thank you.
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      04-05-2017, 10:21 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Not sure yet on the FMIC option. I have a couple weeks before I get everything back to install....so still doing research.
Too bad there wasn't a water to air FMIC. In my stang, I had a Whipple with a fluidyne H20/AIR
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      04-11-2017, 11:19 AM   #499
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I've quoted a few comments from another thread as I think it's relevant and might create beneficial discussion here in the hybrid thread.

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Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
Bohl Stage 3 hybrid turbos arrived today! These are completely custom with much larger hot/ cold wheels installed in the low pressure turbo. LP turbo flows 62lbs of air and should make for a powerful 335d.
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Originally Posted by Whitbread View Post
Happen to get the PR specs for the lp compressor? 62lbs is awesome, but only if it can do at least a 3.5-4 ratio for our application at a decent efficiency.
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Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Although I'd ideally like something that also included better A/R (the 62 lb/min rating is likely not with the A/R of our turbo's, is it?).
I remember seeing some air flow data TDIwyse posted after installing his Pro Turbo hybrids, which I believe was in the 62-65lb/ min range with his hybrid turbos but now I can't seem to find the post.

How much airflow lb/min are these modified turbos pushing to reach 475whp BPC tuned, 480BHP (WHP?) JR Tuned or TDIwyse's JR Tuned 509WHP?

It seems both full hybrid options, Pro turbo and Bohl are flowing a lot of air compared to the stock LP turbo. Do any of you know a method to approximate the air flow of these turbos or how much power they are capable of supporting? I know the hot sides are the same size (58mm) and the cold side is only slightly different in size (Bohl's compressor is slightly larger (1-2mm) at 71mm.

Is there a way to determine the max output of these turbos with the info we have? It sounds like fuel is now a limiting factor, but how much more air flow is available from these hybrids? Is there enough air flow on tap to justify spending serious money upgrading the fuel components? Or are these turbos nearing their max.

Here are the links to these two outstanding full hybrid dyno sheets.

BPC's 474/660 @ the tires http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1372255

JR's 480/695 @ the engine http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1373133

Last edited by 335dsleeper; 06-23-2017 at 11:29 AM..
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      04-11-2017, 11:51 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
I remember seeing some air flow data TDIwyse posted after installing his Pro Turbo hybrids, which I believe was in the 62-65lb/ min range with his hybrid turbos but now I can't seem to find the post. ....
Maybe this was what you were looking for?

This airflow question, since we are saturating the MAF and it can't read the actual flow, was the whole reason why I developed this method to be able to get a measurement on airflow: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1210979

You can also get an idea of airflow from calcuations from matchbot. But this requires you to have good logs of critical data to fill into the calculator. And you have to make some assumptions about certain parameters (like VE for example) ... but if you can measure airflow you can check your assumptions.

An example of matchbot from logged parameters on the Pro Turbo config in my specific car was posted here and was coming in at ~64-65 lb/min at peak rpms: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=466

The measurement technique outlined in the first thread I linked above, was also showing mid 60's lb/min airflow.
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      04-11-2017, 06:20 PM   #501
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Yea, bud.. that's what I was referring too. Thanks for posting, I couldn't find it.

Do you think the turbos are capable of flowing more air than the 475-510whp? Meaning, if we installed modified CP3 R90 pump and modified Bosch injectors, is there enough airflow to make any more power and to make this investment worth it? If so, how close to the limit are we... would we be looking at 1whp or 50whp increase with additional fueling? Is upgrading the fuel system the next step to making more power or will we be limited by the turbos airflow once again?!

I assume we're at the top end of these turbos, I can't imagine getting 67-68lb/min out of these hybrids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Maybe this was what you were looking for?

This airflow question, since we are saturating the MAF and it can't read the actual flow, was the whole reason why I developed this method to be able to get a measurement on airflow: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1210979

You can also get an idea of airflow from calcuations from matchbot. But this requires you to have good logs of critical data to fill into the calculator. And you have to make some assumptions about certain parameters (like VE for example) ... but if you can measure airflow you can check your assumptions.

An example of matchbot from logged parameters on the Pro Turbo config in my specific car was posted here and was coming in at ~64-65 lb/min at peak rpms: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=466

The measurement technique outlined in the first thread I linked above, was also showing mid 60's lb/min airflow.

Last edited by 335dsleeper; 04-12-2017 at 10:53 AM..
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      04-18-2017, 01:34 PM   #502
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Dash all 335d 286 has r70 railpump? The 535D 272 version is the only one has fitted with r90 from biturbo versions? Wich one is the reasonable(affordable ) choice ?
The automatic gearbox is faster than the manuel(6hp)

pumps
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      04-25-2017, 09:32 PM   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
Do you think the turbos are capable of flowing more air than the 475-510whp? Meaning, if we installed modified CP3 R90 pump and modified Bosch injectors, is there enough airflow to make any more power and to make this investment worth it? If so, how close to the limit are we... would we be looking at 1whp or 50whp increase with additional fueling? Is upgrading the fuel system the next step to making more power or will we be limited by the turbos airflow once again?!

I assume we're at the top end of these turbos, I can't imagine getting 67-68lb/min out of these hybrids.
I can tell you at 40+ psi and the Bohl turbos, I hit a limit on the stock fuel system, could not go any higher with boost. As for air flow, from what we have seen with the larger IC setup, im sure the next step would be increase the intake piping going to the LP turbo and delete the MAF. Im sure that will free up another 15 - 25 more hp to the wheels
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      04-26-2017, 12:33 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
I can tell you at 40+ psi and the Bohl turbos, I hit a limit on the stock fuel system, could not go any higher with boost. As for air flow, from what we have seen with the larger IC setup, im sure the next step would be increase the intake piping going to the LP turbo and delete the MAF. Im sure that will free up another 15 - 25 more hp to the wheels
Bob. Assuming full deletes, intake, full exhaust, intercooler, egr block off plates, etc.

Is it possible on the stock fuel system to hit 500whp with the Bohl turbos without METH injection?
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      04-26-2017, 03:34 AM   #505
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Running without the MAF would be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Bob@BPC View Post
I can tell you at 40+ psi and the Bohl turbos, I hit a limit on the stock fuel system, could not go any higher with boost. As for air flow, from what we have seen with the larger IC setup, im sure the next step would be increase the intake piping going to the LP turbo and delete the MAF. Im sure that will free up another 15 - 25 more hp to the wheels
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      04-26-2017, 03:36 AM   #506
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Bob. Assuming full deletes, intake, full exhaust, intercooler, egr block off plates, etc.

Is it possible on the stock fuel system to hit 500whp with the Bohl turbos without METH injection?
No!

You're not hitting 500whp with stock fuel system without meth. Hell, many won't hit 500whp with meth.

Last edited by 335dsleeper; 04-27-2017 at 07:48 AM..
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