[motherkin]

Again and again we have proven that CA 91 octane is shit, it is at best 89

[houtan]

Any updates Robert? How's the car running on e30?

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

Any updates Robert? How's the car running on e30?

Had to postpone the E30 dyno last week due to misfires at high RPMs. Car runs great most of the time but still a little unpredictable when I stomp on it. Might have to wait til January to finish the tune at this point.

[Bours]

Is it true pure stage 1 is snappier and provides more torque down low ? Therefor is more enjoyable on small streets as a dd and stage 2 is more like a freakin hell train for highway and produces more lag down low ?

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Had to postpone the E30 dyno last week due to misfires at high RPMs. Car runs great most of the time but still a little unpredictable when I stomp on it. Might have to wait til January to finish the tune at this point.

that is no fun. so you are running PTF E30 FLASH ONLY tune? I am running probably the same flash as you but as a BEF with my JB4. how much boost is your flash hitting? i just loaded this flash last wednesday and i also am having misfires at anything more then 19psi. my DCT also is slipping in the higher gears when i do a 3k roll on. gonna have to wait till Dzenno is back from vacation for more revisions. i was running the BMS BEF for the last 8 months, i was able to get away with 20-21psi with no misfires on E50. the BMS BEF also runs more timing then the PTF flash but a much leaner AFR. also my car didnt have any slipping issues at 21-23 psi with bms flash so hopefully its just a matter of increasing load values in the flash. i have noticed the PTF seems to spool 400-600 rpms quicker which is a big plus but im not liking the slipping or misfires with less boost then i previously was running. hopefully Dzenno can work some magic when he gets back. are you running N20 plugs gapped down?

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by Bours

Is it true pure stage 1 is snappier and provides more torque down low ? Therefor is more enjoyable on small streets as a dd and stage 2 is more like a freakin hell train for highway and produces more lag down low ?

ive had both. stage 1 is cool and spools like stock turbo but falls way off after 6k rpms. also stage 1 you cant really run more then 13psi on pump bc the turbo is still inefficient compared to stage 2. yes stage 1 spools faster, make more tq not really. stage 2 is a much more broad power band that also is capable of 16-17psi pump gas only

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

that is no fun. so you are running PTF E30 FLASH ONLY tune? I am running probably the same flash as you but as a BEF with my JB4. how much boost is your flash hitting? i just loaded this flash last wednesday and i also am having misfires at anything more then 19psi. my DCT also is slipping in the higher gears when i do a 3k roll on. gonna have to wait till Dzenno is back from vacation for more revisions. i was running the BMS BEF for the last 8 months, i was able to get away with 20-21psi with no misfires on E50. the BMS BEF also runs more timing then the PTF flash but a much leaner AFR. also my car didnt have any slipping issues at 21-23 psi with bms flash so hopefully its just a matter of increasing load values in the flash. i have noticed the PTF seems to spool 400-600 rpms quicker which is a big plus but im not liking the slipping or misfires with less boost then i previously was running. hopefully Dzenno can work some magic when he gets back. are you running N20 plugs gapped down?

I didn't think you needed to run N20 plugs gapped?

[Bours]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

ive had both. stage 1 is cool and spools like stock turbo but falls way off after 6k rpms. also stage 1 you cant really run more then 13psi on pump bc the turbo is still inefficient compared to stage 2. yes stage 1 spools faster, make more tq not really. stage 2 is a much more broad power band that also is capable of 16-17psi pump gas only

So the only advantage of getting stage 1 is the powerdand is extended power band to 6k instead of 4.8. - 5k rpm ??

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

that is no fun. so you are running PTF E30 FLASH ONLY tune? I am running probably the same flash as you but as a BEF with my JB4. how much boost is your flash hitting? i just loaded this flash last wednesday and i also am having misfires at anything more then 19psi. my DCT also is slipping in the higher gears when i do a 3k roll on. gonna have to wait till Dzenno is back from vacation for more revisions. i was running the BMS BEF for the last 8 months, i was able to get away with 20-21psi with no misfires on E50. the BMS BEF also runs more timing then the PTF flash but a much leaner AFR. also my car didnt have any slipping issues at 21-23 psi with bms flash so hopefully its just a matter of increasing load values in the flash. i have noticed the PTF seems to spool 400-600 rpms quicker which is a big plus but im not liking the slipping or misfires with less boost then i previously was running. hopefully Dzenno can work some magic when he gets back. are you running N20 plugs gapped down?

Yes, PTF E30 flash only tune. And yes I have the N20 plugs gapped down per Dzenno's advice.

Here is a log from 2 weeks ago, looks great and Dzenno said we were done with the E30 tune when he saw it, so I scheduled the dyno for last week:
E30 log #1, looking good

But then a few days later on the exact same map had a hard limp (sudden complete loss of power) with P36CA code while passing a Prius on the way to work (so embarrassing!). I was not logging at the time as I thought we were done tuning, but I grabbed a couple more logs later that day on the way home, here are those logs:
E30 log #2, not so good
E30 log#3, engine failure

On log #2 you can see the misfires between 5 and 6K RPM. While pulling log #3 the car went into limp mode again, but not as bad as it had in the morning; still had to pull over and restart though, and got 5 or 6 codes that Dzenno called misfire codes (but no P36CA). This was the day before the dyno appt, so I canceled it. I had refilled the tank with E30 between these 2 sets of logs; I used the same gas station and the same method of calculating E%, but it is possible that the E% was off slightly between the 2 runs. Before getting log#1 above I had previously noticed some similar feeling misfires on E33 (no logs) and so determined that E30 was the limit for my car as is.

Now I have to wait until January as PTF is closed for 2 weeks. I'm not very good at figuring this kind of stuff out on my own, so if any of you guys have any thoughts or suggestions please chime in!

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Bours

Is it true pure stage 1 is snappier and provides more torque down low ? Therefor is more enjoyable on small streets as a dd and stage 2 is more like a freakin hell train for highway and produces more lag down low ?

On my car on 91 octane crap CA gas stage 1 did feel a little snappier at lower RPMs than stage 2, and the dyno reflects that. What I'm trying to find out now is if that goes away with higher octane fuel. Also please note my car has OEM downpipe, not sure if an aftermarket DP would give me better low end torque on stage 2 turbo.

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by Bours

So the only advantage of getting stage 1 is the powerdand is extended power band to 6k instead of 4.8. - 5k rpm ??

yes. on average it makes 20-30 whp over stock snail.

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

On my car on 91 octane crap CA gas stage 1 did feel a little snappier at lower RPMs than stage 2, and the dyno reflects that. What I'm trying to find out now is if that goes away with higher octane fuel. Also please note my car has OEM downpipe, not sure if an aftermarket DP would give me better low end torque on stage 2 turbo.

its not the e30 mix causing misfires. ive run e50 on the BMS stuff for the past 8 months with misfires only happening above 21psi. seems the leaner the AFR the less the car misfires. i have a few bms flashes and the leanest 13.0 afr targets allows most boost. now im trying ptf tunes and its misfiring at 19-20psi on 12.xx afrs. ive tried new hpfp, plugs, coils etc etc. nothing changes the misfires. how much boost are you hitting?

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

its not the e30 mix causing misfires. ive run e50 on the BMS stuff for the past 8 months with misfires only happening above 21psi. seems the leaner the AFR the less the car misfires. i have a few bms flashes and the leanest 13.0 afr targets allows most boost. now im trying ptf tunes and its misfiring at 19-20psi on 12.xx afrs. ive tried new hpfp, plugs, coils etc etc. nothing changes the misfires. how much boost are you hitting?

Did you see my other post above with links to logs? Seems like it is misfiring when it hits 21 PSI, at least on log 2 and log 3 above. Everything was fine in the 19 PSI range.

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Did you see my other post above with links to logs? Seems like it is misfiring when it hits 21 PSI, at least on log 2 and log 3 above. Everything was fine in the 19 PSI range.

oops just did. when he gets back from vacation ill have him try a few things for me to see if they aid in misfires

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Yes, PTF E30 flash only tune. And yes I have the N20 plugs gapped down per Dzenno's advice.

Here is a log from 2 weeks ago, looks great and Dzenno said we were done with the E30 tune when he saw it, so I scheduled the dyno for last week:
E30 log #1, looking good

But then a few days later on the exact same map had a hard limp (sudden complete loss of power) with P36CA code while passing a Prius on the way to work (so embarrassing!). I was not logging at the time as I thought we were done tuning, but I grabbed a couple more logs later that day on the way home, here are those logs:
E30 log #2, not so good
E30 log#3, engine failure

On log #2 you can see the misfires between 5 and 6K RPM. While pulling log #3 the car went into limp mode again, but not as bad as it had in the morning; still had to pull over and restart though, and got 5 or 6 codes that Dzenno called misfire codes (but no P36CA). This was the day before the dyno appt, so I canceled it. I had refilled the tank with E30 between these 2 sets of logs; I used the same gas station and the same method of calculating E%, but it is possible that the E% was off slightly between the 2 runs. Before getting log#1 above I had previously noticed some similar feeling misfires on E33 (no logs) and so determined that E30 was the limit for my car as is.

Now I have to wait until January as PTF is closed for 2 weeks. I'm not very good at figuring this kind of stuff out on my own, so if any of you guys have any thoughts or suggestions please chime in!

Sucks to see you type this lol. You had me hopeful the tune was figured out! This is the same issue I had for every flash only ethanol blend tune on the stock turbo. Car absolutely rips for a day, then on day two misfires start to show up and no one knows why. Hopefully Dzenno knows what is wrong and it's a simple fix. I do not know of any other companies doing ethanol flash tunes for the N55 so he's our only hope right now.

Newguys car is running good using the ptf flash with the JB4, As far as I know, that is still the only option to run ethanol on the N55. hopefully the dct slip is a simple fix.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

Sucks to see you type this lol. You had me hopeful the tune was figured out! This is the same issue I had for every flash only ethanol blend tune on the stock turbo. Car absolutely rips for a day, then on day two misfires start to show up and no one knows why. Hopefully Dzenno knows what is wrong and it's a simple fix. I do not know of any other companies doing ethanol flash tunes for the N55 so he's our only hope right now.

Newguys car is running good using the ptf flash with the JB4, As far as I know, that is still the only option to run ethanol on the N55. hopefully the dct slip is a simple fix.

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed. Who did your flash tuning on stock turbo when you had similar problems?

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed. Who did your flash tuning on stock turbo when you had similar problems?

Dzenno. I was one of the beta testors when cobb released ATR. The tune has come a long way, but mostly for 91. The ethanol blends never worked which is why I switched to jb4. On the stock turbo though, my performance is similar between 91 flash tune vs jb4 e50 with BMS tune. So I'm running flash only. I still own my jb4 though, and will keep it until a proven flash is available because with an uograded turbo we need ethanol. Jb4 is the only working solution so far.

It really sucks for the e series n55s. Cobb released an initial solution and just left us hanging. There is a lot more they could do to give us a better solution. Situation sucks even more for the 2012+ guys. On top of that, tuners like ptf are focusing development on f series cars, so we are basically stuck with what we have for now. Hopefully we will get more support, but who knows.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

Dzenno. I was one of the beta testors when cobb released ATR. The tune has come a long way, but mostly for 91. The ethanol blends never worked which is why I switched to jb4. On the stock turbo though, my performance is similar between 91 flash tune vs jb4 e50 with BMS tune. So I'm running flash only. I still own my jb4 though, and will keep it until a proven flash is available because with an uograded turbo we need ethanol. Jb4 is the only working solution so far.

It really sucks for the e series n55s. Cobb released an initial solution and just left us hanging. There is a lot more they could do to give us a better solution. Situation sucks even more for the 2012+ guys. On top of that, tuners like ptf are focusing development on f series cars, so we are basically stuck with what we have for now. Hopefully we will get more support, but who knows.

Man, that stinks. I did not know that. Seems like lots of E90 folks around here are running E30 no problem. Are those all N54s???

I also have access to 101 octane unleaded race gas, although it is a lot more expensive than E85. If I strike out with E30 then I will probably try tuning for a 50:50 blend of 101 and 91 next.

[houtan]

It really does stink. I'm pretty sure they are N54's, but I hope I am wrong!

[asrautox]

I have a theory as to why flash tuned cars are struggling with high Ethanol blends and why JB4 with FF wires are not. This was a common issue with the Mazda DIZI cars where Cobb was able to unlock the tables to allow a higher target fuel pressure for those running upgraded HPFP's. If Cobb could just find it in their hearts to give us access to FOL adjustment, this issue would likely go away. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely that they will.

[MiamiM3]

I run E50 blend with just a PTF flash with no issues on stock lpfp and stock turbo. I think Dzenno didnt push the limits with my tune. The tune is solid, no misfires. Before the E50 tune, I was running a PTF 91 octane tune and I had a lot of low rpm misfires during summer.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I run E50 blend with just a PTF flash with no issues on stock lpfp and stock turbo. I think Dzenno didnt push the limits with my tune. The tune is solid, no misfires. Before the E50 tune, I was running a PTF 91 octane tune and I had a lot of low rpm misfires during summer.

What is the max boost you are hitting on E50? Any engine mods? Can you post a log?