[soamazin]

So, I'm looking to buy my first car...BMW 3 series ofcourse but I can't decide whether or not to get RWD or AWD for things such as Calgary winter. I don't have any experience with RWD as I've only ever driven FWD. I do know that winter tires make a huge difference. I've heard RWD cars are very bad for the winter and people have suggested sandbagging in the back over the axle and you should be fine. How bad is the risk to slip? How do the RWD BMW's compare to FWD cars? What about AWD BMW's? I don't want a vehicle I can't drive in the winter. Also, AWD doesn't go quite as fast as RWD.

A few other questions:

Which dealer did you purchase from? Calgary BMW? BMW Gallery? Edmonton BMW? I understand the Calgary ones are owned by the same person so I assume you wouldn't see much of a difference in deals. Any suggestions?

When is the best time to purchase 2007s that are being moved to make room for 2008s? I can look at the other threads to figure out average costs above invoice.

How hard will it be to finance a BMW at the age of 21?

Oh yeah...this may sound dumb but...what's the difference between a sport packaged BMW vs a normal? What are the seats like? What is the suspension like?

I'll think of more questions i'm sure, but thanks in advance for the answers.

[alanchan]

the only thing I can say is sport package is worth it.
I regret I didn't get it
sport package give you sport suspension
sport seat give you more lateral support
the leather steering wheel is better than the normal one
the tires are staggered sport summer tires with either 17" or 18" rim.

But in your case, AWD 3 series (xi models) will have all season tires with 17" rim.

[G-Mach1]

Originally Posted by soamazin

So, I'm looking to buy my first car...BMW 3 series ofcourse but I can't decide whether or not to get RWD or AWD for things such as Calgary winter. I don't have any experience with RWD as I've only ever driven FWD. I do know that winter tires make a huge difference. I've heard RWD cars are very bad for the winter and people have suggested sandbagging in the back over the axle and you should be fine. How bad is the risk to slip? How do the RWD BMW's compare to FWD cars? What about AWD BMW's? I don't want a vehicle I can't drive in the winter. Also, AWD doesn't go quite as fast as RWD.

A few other questions:

Which dealer did you purchase from? Calgary BMW? BMW Gallery? Edmonton BMW? I understand the Calgary ones are owned by the same person so I assume you wouldn't see much of a difference in deals. Any suggestions?

When is the best time to purchase 2007s that are being moved to make room for 2008s? I can look at the other threads to figure out average costs above invoice.

How hard will it be to finance a BMW at the age of 21?

Oh yeah...this may sound dumb but...what's the difference between a sport packaged BMW vs a normal? What are the seats like? What is the suspension like?

I'll think of more questions i'm sure, but thanks in advance for the answers.

1) RWD VS FWD VS AWD
I have owned all three and in my honest opnion RWD is the worst in Calgary Winter condition. If I don't have a winter car I will never ever buy a RWD vehicle. Having said that one of my friend , he put winter tires on his E46 and he drove that last winter with out any problems.
I got my 328 with sports PKG and I can tell you this you will definitely need atleast all season with out that you will not even your car in Calgary winter.

2) I bought mine from Calgary BMW. You are right both the dealerships are owned by the same owner and they have the worst customer service. Almost there is no customer service. I don't know any thing about the Edmonton dealer ship.
If you want to deal with Calgary BMW PM me I will give you person I dealt with. He is knows what he is talking. He is a good sales guy but the dealer ship Sucks.
3) As for Financing it all depends on your Credit history and whether you have a Full time job or not.
4) Sports PKG is good but as I said in Point 1 if you don't have a winter car be prepared to spend the money on a second set of wheels or tires.

Hope this helps. Good Luck

[sdyck]

Both Calgary dealerships are owned by the same guy so find a sales assistant you like. 2% off list is the best you'll do on price.

I bought the 335xi - love it. The extra couple of thousand is worth it for the AWD. You'll want the sport package with 18" wheels, its the only way to get the additional oil cooler and top end speed of 155 mph. That said you'll have to spring for additional winter tires and wheels as the performance tires aren't a good idea for our winter driving.

If you haven't driven a rwd car I wouldn't recommend trying to feel out the differences in a high powered car like the 335i.

Good luck

[Tonybest]

I don't live in Calgary (I'm from Montreal) but i've been there quite often enough.

I have never understood the fascination with AWD. For normal everyday driving in any (yes I mean any) snow condition, FWD or RWD is fine.

If you have a 3-series, the car is so well balanced, you don't need to add weight in the back. Just don't go cheap on winter tyres. Your life and most probably the lives of others depend on them. I have never got caught somewhere I couldn't get out of easily. And I soooo love driving in pure untouched freshly fallen white stuff that I do it at any time it happens. Rear wheel drive with very good winter tyres.

AWD is great for off-roading... Will I do some in my 3 series? I think not.

[topher91]

Ya, I've owned a couple of RWD cars in Calgary through the winter. If your a responsible driver, you will do fine. If your 21, but drive like your 18, say by by to your BMW....

I had a Nissan Silvia RWD 210hp + car in the winter, slapped on some winter tires and I was good to go. I had an E36 in the winter, no DSC, just ABS, slapped winter tires on that and I did fine. I drove my dad's 540i with DSC in the winter, pretty hard to lose control unless, again, you drive like an idiot...

I haven't had the chance to take my E90 in snow, but I'm sure with some winter tires again, I'll be ok.

[MINNOW]

A RWD 3 series should be fine for Calgary if, and only if you will get dedicated winter tires.
I purchased from Bavaria in Edmonton, years ago they had a bad rap for not discounting, but now that there is a second dealer in town you can negotiate. Select your car and start the process at about 4% off list, and see how that goes. Don't forget to discount the freight, PDI, admin. charges, etc., that is about $2,300 right there.
And if you want to factory order you can still negotiate a discount.
2008 models should be arriving in October, at which time an off the lot car they should be motivated to move at discount.

[CokerRat]

AWD or FWD are measurably better than RWD for driving on slippery surfaces, so if you want "the best for winter", yes, get the xi model. However, as people above have said, RWD is perfectly fine with good winter tires and a respect for how road conditions can change literally in a few feet.

AWD and FWD do not help you stop, they merely help you accelerate and change your slippage in a turn to understeer rather than understeer. This is a big deal if you have limited driving experience and can't control a minor slide, but no big deal if you can countersteer correctly and, more importantly, properly drive to avoid it happening in the first place.

Now....Calgary is actually not that snowy a place. According to the City Of Calgary website there are only an average of 8 days per year with a meaningful amount of snowfall (>2cm). My impression the last few winters have been that there are only maybe 30-40 days a year of snow-covered roads, excluding residential roads where you go so slow it doesn't matter what your drive configuration is.

BTW to see what people get away with in the winter, just look around and see all the BMW's (3/5/7), Lexus LS & IS series, M-B C & E classes, G35's, 350Z's, Mustangs, heck even older Camaros, 2WD pickups, etc. Either all these people are crazy or else it is totally do-able. You be the judge. I test drove a 335i on winter tires in December on a literal skating rink of a back alley and the car has no problem getting moving with the traction control. Just remember that the best AWD system in the world doesn't help you stop when you hit the brakes.... only the tires do.

Market conditions: Obviously the best time to cut a deal on an '07 is when there are '08's on the lots. However don't expect a big discount if you're leasing, since the residual has instantly gone down at the back end due to the year change anyway. Sounds like you are buying tho, so you might save a bit (I'd wildly guess another grand).

Yes, the Calgary dealerships believe they are your only option to buy a new car. That is not the case, and it's up to you to convince them that they are indeed competing for your business. This is basic negotiation. Don't believe them when they tell you nobody will sell you a car for more than 2% off list.

Good luck!

[halB]

2 words:

WINTER TIRES

You need them regardless of whether your car is FWD RWD 4WD AWD.

Just remember:

1 - Regardless of the drive configuration, you contact the ground via 4 little rubber patches each size of a very small ballet shoe at all speed.

2 - Rubber compounds in summer tires harden to the point of like hockey pucks in cold winter temperature, and slide like hockey pucks too.

3 - 4WD/AWD may give you more traction on the get go, but when it comes to emergency stops it is no different then FWD or RWD becasue drive power is not available to the wheels at that point. That why 4X4 trucks and SUV's are the first to go into the ditch when the road gets slippery.

[asdfaa]

RWD is perfectly fine in Calgary in the winter, just don't expect to take turns fast when the roads are slippery or snow covered EVEN with winter tires, the 335i just wants to bust its tail loose.

[soamazin]

How much of a discount is reasonable for a 328i?

Around what months are they clearing out 2007's and getting 2008's? Not sure if I want paddle shifters or the 2007 one.

How much lower is sport suspension compared to regular?

And, would sandbagging even help at all?

Thanks again.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by CokerRat

Yes, the Calgary dealerships believe they are your only option to buy a new car. That is not the case, and it's up to you to convince them that they are indeed competing for your business. This is basic negotiation. Don't believe them when they tell you nobody will sell you a car for more than 2% off list.

Good luck!

+1. Also, the sales manager at Edm BMW admitted that they don't have a good relationship with Bavaria BMW, so that helped with negotiations. Make sure that you let the Calgary dealerships know that they're in competition with the Edm ones.

[EdmBimmer]

I have a few contacts at Edmonton BMW that might help you get a better deal if you want.

The GM and SM are good golf buddies of mine. I was able to get a good deal for my parents on their X3 and my e90.

PM me if you're interested.

[soamazin]

I won't be headed to the dealership until I've seen what's new with the '08s, but thank you for the offers. I'll keep that in mind.

[aspiring335]

I've had two RWD BMWs in Calgary winters (my old E46 touring and my current E90 330i). AWD will obviously give you better traction, but you will be just fine with a good set of winter tires. However, I do regret getting the BMW winter wheel package, since the run-flat Blizzaks are not the greatest. I'm not sure how accurate this theory is, but it seems to me that more rigid sidewalls are not what you want in snow -- you want a bit more give so the tire 'grabs' the snow a bit better. Go with some non run-flat Michelins or another quality brand and you'll be good to go.

As others have noted, RWD has different handling characteristics in the snow and as soon as you are used to this it is very easy to control the vehicle. You'll benefit from the lower weight, cost and better fuel economy relative to the xi, too.

As to Calgary dealers, I really haven't had any bad experiences with either BMW Gallery or Calgary BMW, although I've only ever had my vehicles serviced at Gallery. My feeling is that Calgary BMW has cleaned up its act in recent years -- even though the two dealerships are owned by the same group, the sales guys in each dealership know that you can still walk away and get a new BMW from the other dealership (and hence from another sales guy).

[CalgaryX3]

Since I'm purchasing a beater for winter, and also have an X3 in the stable, I'll only comment on cross shopping the two Calgary dealerships.

My X3 was purchased in January '05 from the Gallery in Crowfoot. I felt that I got a fair price at that time. Being a former customer, I went there first when I started shopping for the 335I. They had one in stock which met 90% of the needs (colour/trim/packages etc.) that my wife and I were interested in.

Given that they had the car in stock, I put down an offer which I thought was very reasonable. The sales person took the offer to the sales manager (whom I never even have met to this day), and returned minutes later declining the offer. I was told that the manager was not willing to budge at all on the MSRP, or the calculated monthly payments. I left, politely citing the reasons provided as being complete B.S. At no point did I recieve a follow-up call from the sales person, or even an invite to meet the sales manager as I left the dealership feeling rather disappointed.

I took the information to a contact I formed online to calgary BMW, and informed the rep there that the car we had settled on, was in stock at the "other" dealership. After less than 20 minutes of negotiating, we walked away with a deal that was 3% off MSRP, with a couple of goodies thrown in for good measure. The car was transported from Gallery to Calgary BMW within two days, and we picked up the same car we had sat in at the Gallery only 48 hours earlier.

Sure the "company" may have gotten the business, but as far as I'm concerned, I walked away with a better deal, and a salesperson lost a sale due to the fact that he did not work hard enough on my behalf.

Good luck on your hunt; if you need my contact information at Calgary BMW please send me a private message.

Regards
Asif

[aleksl]

RWD will be fine. I would not buy an AWD in Calgary because of the snow. I had a WRX and it was fun as hell to drive all winter during the 5 times there was snow on the ground. Go with RWD IMO...

[soamazin]

I'm looking at 323i and possibly the 328i. The 323 doesn't come with all of the options I want in 07, hopefully some of the options change for the 08 models.

[3thirty5]

RWD is fine, i didn't have any problems last winter. just make sure u get winter tires!.. that is a MUST!!!

[soamazin]

Should I assume that the BMW 1 series coupe's insurance rates will be higher due to them being coupe's and a brand new series? Even though they will be priced less than a 3 series?

[reggiecmah]

I am friends with the owner of the two BMW dealerships in calgary!!! =) hahah
which would explain how i got my car for a good price.

[G-Mach1]

Originally Posted by Reggie@MWDesign

I am friends with the owner of the two BMW dealerships in calgary!!! =) hahah
which would explain how i got my car for a good price.

Ha???