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[rooster92]

Originally Posted by carlitosz@MORRAlloys.com

With only 4 posts your comments are very influential

I find that very amusing coming from a salesman with bad grammar who works at a knockoff replica wheel company. trust me, i've been around a lot longer than you might think.

anyways, shouldn't you be off running a group buy somewhere? i think your cable bill is due in a few days...

[FotiosF90M5]

easy there killer.thats a real dickhead thing to say.

[Tarthuss]

Originally Posted by rooster92

I find that very amusing coming from a salesman with bad grammar who works at a knockoff replica wheel company. trust me, i've been around a lot longer than you might think.

anyways, shouldn't you be off running a group buy somewhere? i think your cable bill is due in a few days...

Man, I hate people that sign up to a thread and immediately start bashing everyone that has been here for a while. Who are we, the new ones, to come and start something? Is this really the purpose you joined this forum group? to spend your first comments bashing companies who are apparently making excellent products?

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Tarthuss

Man, I hate people that sign up to a thread and immediately start bashing everyone that has been here for a while. Who are we, the new ones, to come and start something? Is this really the purpose you joined this forum group? to spend your first comments bashing companies who are apparently making excellent products?

Well said Tarthuss. Welcome to the forum.

[bzabodyn]

rooster - shut your pie hole... comments like that really make you look like an ass and totally discredit any future post you might put on this forum...

on the matter of MORR vs NEEZ - I looked into the NEEZ QD7's long before the group buy and after I got several quotes and couldn't get the wheel prices alone around $4k (my absolute MAX), the deal was off... I then bandwagoned behind MORR and pushed for the forged CSL groupbuy - I can tell you now, MORR has put just as much, if not more, into the design and production of these wheels as any other wheel manufacturer out there - his hard work and dedication to make the best forged wheels for the money definitely sold me - they should have a similar design to the QD7's with an extra set of spokes (which many might say look more "busy" but I actually like because they hide my lack of a BBK better)...

I have a rule of thumb with wheels/tires that I will never spend more than 10% of the car's cost on just wheels/tires - because of the great deal on the GB, I'm able to buy wheels, tires, springs, front splitters, and Procede for less than a set of NEEZ wheels alone...

Ryan - I am sorry that my thread was off-topic but I wish you the best of luck on NEEZ wheel sales - I definitely love them on the E90 and hope that those more well-off than I purchase them because they are some of, if not THE, best wheels money can buy...

BZ

[Hunter399]

Originally Posted by carlitosz@MORRAlloys.com

I still stand firm. You have to be very professional when making a statement like that.

I agree that your rep wheels do look good

But please dont compaire them to these Neez wheels, they just arent in the same class

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by carlitosz@MORRAlloys.com

Hunter,

Thank you for the feedback it is really appreciated however I don't ever recalled comparing myself to Neez. I've tried to drop the subject but people seem to keep bringing it up. Neez wheels are built using the same aluminum grade that MORR uses (6061-T6) and the same forging with the difference that Neez uses die-casting and MORR uses blanks. The only thing that makes Neez wheels so exotic its the unjustifiable price tag.

MORR has the same quality, performance and finish. We just haven't been in the market long enough. Our VS7 actually weight several pounds LESS than the same size NEEZ QD7 and I`ll bet my company that the strength is absolutely the same.

Now for Neez, Eissenhaus and MORR sake lets please drop the subject. To each its own. If you want to go with a set of Neez you are welcome to. They are overpriced in my opinion but are really great wheels. If you want to go with a set of MORR you are welcome as well. Just because we sell them several thousand dollars less does not make the quality inferior. The forgings even come from the same country. If MORR had 10-15 years in the business this would've been a completely different conversation.

Thank you,
Carlos Mora.

well said

[Hunter399]

Originally Posted by carlitosz@MORRAlloys.com

Hunter,

MORR has the same quality, performance and finish. We just haven't been in the market long enough. Our VS7 actually weight several pounds LESS than the same size NEEZ QD7 and I`ll bet my company that the strength is absolutely the same.


Thank you,
Carlos Mora.

You just compaired them right there!

[shragon]

cmon, this isn't a neez vs morr thread.

since this is a neez photo thread, more pics please!!

[spacedogg]

Frankly...if I was flush with cash...AND I had a BBK...I think I would go for the NEEZ QD7. They look AWESOME, and the design (with one less spoke than CSL) will show off a BBK fantastically...as other have mentioned.

Keep the pictures coming. Let's stop the whole NEEZ v. MORR comparing thing, as others have stated. I have respect for both products...as everyone should. We're done on that topic.

More photos of NEEZ please!

Edit: Shragon said it before I could! I take too long to write my posts.

[IND-Distribution]

Carlos,

I feel I've remained fairly friendly and civil throughout this thread, but at this point, I will have to respond.

First and foremost, I'd like to ask you to stop posting facts about your wheels in a picture thread. It's both forum courtesy, and professional courtesy. This is a photos and media forum, meaning the purpose of the posts here should be to post photos, and media. When you have your wheels finished, you can start your own thread, and post photos of your wheels in that. I can assure you that I will not post responses in that thread that include scathing comments about your product, out of professional courtesy. I'd appreciate it if you did the same.

I'd like to respond to your statement about equivalent quality, as well.

You'd said that Neez wheels use "the same forging with the difference that Neez uses die-casting and MORR uses blanks". Not only is this statement simply inaccurate, it's also designed to deceive the less informed consumer into believing something that is false. Let me break it down for you, since it appears that you may not know the difference yourself.

"Die-casting" is a process where a molten metal is poured into a mould, and then let cool, providing a semi-finished piece. This is simply NOT forging. Due to the process inherent in casting, it leads to a lower overall density, as well as a very inconsistent grain structure. Although the quality of the finished piece can be saved somewhat by way of stress relieving, annealing, and other processes, it will never be near that of a forged part. That is NOT the process Neez uses to make wheels. This is simply deceiving.

Although I haven't researched the exact manufacturing process Morr Alloys uses to make their wheels, you clearly referred to the use of "blanks".

This is a reference to a type of forging. What happens is that a round, wheel-shaped blank is forged by a press at extremely high pressures, and then machined out into the shape of the wheel. This is FAR superior to die-casting, sand casting, or other casting processes, because the grain structure and overall density of the material are much better controlled within the finished piece. Strength is drastically improved. Unfortunately, especially when designing a wheel, it's still not the absolute best process. This is because once the "blank" is forged, it is then machined into one of many possible shapes. Basically, the spoke pattern is cut out by a machine. This leads to a non uniform grain structure at the worst possible place on a wheel- along all the exposed machined surfaces. This means that any surface that was machined from the blank to make the wheel look like a wheel will have a non uniform grain structure, and will therefore be weaker than it was before the machining process. This is especially unfortunate because the machined surfaces are, coincidentally, the stress risers on the wheel as well. This combination of non-uniform grain structure around the stress risers of the part leads to a highly un-ideal finished product. This is the process you suggested Moor Alloys uses.

Neez uses a process called "Die-Forging" which is not to be confused with die-casting. In this process, a hydraulic press slowly (over the course of a few seconds), uses a die to press the metal into it's designed shape. Each wheel gets it's own die. The QD7 has it's own die, the QD5 has it's own die, the eurocross and eurocross super have their own dies. There is no one-size-fits-all die that just makes a circle that gets machined into whatever shape you want. This "cold forging" process results in some key advantages.

Because the final piece is not sent to final machining in the same way as in a "blank-forging" process, the grain structure of the product is far more uniform, as is the overall density. Porosity is reduced, as are any odd grain formations near stress risers. This process produces the absolute best wheel possible, as it results in the fewest machined surfaces, the lowest porosity, and the best possible grain structure and overall density. It's also not even remotely similar to what Moor Alloys uses to make their wheels, with the exception of the term "forged" in the name. It is inherently a very expensive process, as each die used to make each individual wheel process is hugely expensive to make, they must all be different, and the process is inherently far more time consuming. More R&D is required, and it inherently results in a low-volume wheel. All of these things contribute to the high cost of Neez wheels.

That being said, machining wheels from forged blanks, like Moor is doing will not result in a low-quality wheel. I am willing to bet that you may not ever have a wheel actually break at a spoke, and it'll probably be very rare indeed to have a customer call you with a bent wheel, as well. For many applications, especially street use, your wheels will probably be more than enough, assuming you designed them right.

I do not like the idea of your making statements that are clearly inaccurate. Although your wheels may be "good enough", they're simply not "just as good". Their inferiority is guaranteed by their manufacturing process.

This is something that I didn't want to go into in this post, as again, this was intended as a harmless picture thread, but your repeated instigations in this thread forced me to respond.




Put simply, Neez wheels are not for everybody. I would compare them to a fine timepiece. Nobody needs a Breitling watch, but there are those out there that will pay the premium, simply to pay the best. You can roll around on the street just fine on stamped steel wheels with spinner hubcaps, too, but that doesn’t mean anybody wants to. The people who have bought Neez from me have told me that they buy them because they want the absolute best, and are willing to pay the premium. The advanced manufacturing processes ensure this high quality, but do also command the high price.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm sure you'll sell a whole lot of VS7's (I wonder how you came up with that name? ), and that's just fine with me. I have no desire to outsell you, compete against you, or reduce your sales. Neez is a low volume company, and always will be, and neither myself nor Neez Japan have any desire to sell at the volume that you deal with.

There's room for both of us here, and I'm sure the wheels you make will be fantastic. Just please, exercise some professional courtesy, and stop spreading misinformation.

Kind regards,

Ilia

[iatacs19]

Very well said and your professionalism shows throughout your intelligent response.





Now can we see some more of the FXX ???

[EisenHaus]

Yes, Neez wheels are expensive - no question about it.
They are expensive and they are on expensive exotic/euro vehicles
- There are a lot of good reasons for this.
Enjoy the new W221 S-calss photos here. Thanks guys.

[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by ilia@industry

Carlos,

I feel I've remained fairly friendly and civil throughout this thread, but at this point, I will have to respond.

First and foremost, I'd like to ask you to stop posting facts about your wheels in a picture thread. It's both forum courtesy, and professional courtesy. This is a photos and media forum, meaning the purpose of the posts here should be to post photos, and media. When you have your wheels finished, you can start your own thread, and post photos of your wheels in that. I can assure you that I will not post responses in that thread that include scathing comments about your product, out of professional courtesy. I'd appreciate it if you did the same.

I'd like to respond to your statement about equivalent quality, as well.

You'd said that Neez wheels use "the same forging with the difference that Neez uses die-casting and MORR uses blanks". Not only is this statement simply inaccurate, it's also designed to deceive the less informed consumer into believing something that is false. Let me break it down for you, since it appears that you may not know the difference yourself.

"Die-casting" is a process where a molten metal is poured into a mould, and then let cool, providing a semi-finished piece. This is simply NOT forging. Due to the process inherent in casting, it leads to a lower overall density, as well as a very inconsistent grain structure. Although the quality of the finished piece can be saved somewhat by way of stress relieving, annealing, and other processes, it will never be near that of a forged part. That is NOT the process Neez uses to make wheels. This is simply deceiving.

Although I haven't researched the exact manufacturing process Morr Alloys uses to make their wheels, you clearly referred to the use of "blanks".

This is a reference to a type of forging. What happens is that a round, wheel-shaped blank is forged by a press at extremely high pressures, and then machined out into the shape of the wheel. This is FAR superior to die-casting, sand casting, or other casting processes, because the grain structure and overall density of the material are much better controlled within the finished piece. Strength is drastically improved. Unfortunately, especially when designing a wheel, it's still not the absolute best process. This is because once the "blank" is forged, it is then machined into one of many possible shapes. Basically, the spoke pattern is cut out by a machine. This leads to a non uniform grain structure at the worst possible place on a wheel- along all the exposed machined surfaces. This means that any surface that was machined from the blank to make the wheel look like a wheel will have a non uniform grain structure, and will therefore be weaker than it was before the machining process. This is especially unfortunate because the machined surfaces are, coincidentally, the stress risers on the wheel as well. This combination of non-uniform grain structure around the stress risers of the part leads to a highly un-ideal finished product. This is the process you suggested Moor Alloys uses.

Neez uses a process called "Die-Forging" which is not to be confused with die-casting. In this process, a hydraulic press slowly (over the course of a few seconds), uses a die to press the metal into it's designed shape. Each wheel gets it's own die. The QD7 has it's own die, the QD5 has it's own die, the eurocross and eurocross super have their own dies. There is no one-size-fits-all die that just makes a circle that gets machined into whatever shape you want. This "cold forging" process results in some key advantages.

Because the final piece is not sent to final machining in the same way as in a "blank-forging" process, the grain structure of the product is far more uniform, as is the overall density. Porosity is reduced, as are any odd grain formations near stress risers. This process produces the absolute best wheel possible, as it results in the fewest machined surfaces, the lowest porosity, and the best possible grain structure and overall density. It's also not even remotely similar to what Moor Alloys uses to make their wheels, with the exception of the term "forged" in the name. It is inherently a very expensive process, as each die used to make each individual wheel process is hugely expensive to make, they must all be different, and the process is inherently far more time consuming. More R&D is required, and it inherently results in a low-volume wheel. All of these things contribute to the high cost of Neez wheels.

That being said, machining wheels from forged blanks, like Moor is doing will not result in a low-quality wheel. I am willing to bet that you may not ever have a wheel actually break at a spoke, and it'll probably be very rare indeed to have a customer call you with a bent wheel, as well. For many applications, especially street use, your wheels will probably be more than enough, assuming you designed them right.

I do not like the idea of your making statements that are clearly inaccurate. Although your wheels may be "good enough", they're simply not "just as good". Their inferiority is guaranteed by their manufacturing process.

This is something that I didn't want to go into in this post, as again, this was intended as a harmless picture thread, but your repeated instigations in this thread forced me to respond.




Put simply, Neez wheels are not for everybody. I would compare them to a fine timepiece. Nobody needs a Breitling watch, but there are those out there that will pay the premium, simply to pay the best. You can roll around on the street just fine on stamped steel wheels with spinner hubcaps, too, but that doesn’t mean anybody wants to. The people who have bought Neez from me have told me that they buy them because they want the absolute best, and are willing to pay the premium. The advanced manufacturing processes ensure this high quality, but do also command the high price.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm sure you'll sell a whole lot of VS7's (I wonder how you came up with that name? ), and that's just fine with me. I have no desire to outsell you, compete against you, or reduce your sales. Neez is a low volume company, and always will be, and neither myself nor Neez Japan have any desire to sell at the volume that you deal with.

There's room for both of us here, and I'm sure the wheels you make will be fantastic. Just please, exercise some professional courtesy, and stop spreading misinformation.

Kind regards,

Ilia

Well said :rocks: btw, the machine forging you spoke about, I assume that's how iforged/HRE/DPE/Jline get rims from? Hence that's why they're able to crank out many styles in a short time span, vs Neez which have less styles to choose from but each style introduce requires a longer R&D time?

[IND-Distribution]

Carlos,

I'm also glad that we could come to a civilized conclusion! Too many vendors on forums handle matters like these in very ugly ways, and it's simply not called for, it's refreshing to be able to calmly discuss a topic with someone without it turning nasty.

I do like how you named the wheel, it's pretty cool!

With regards to the statement on machining, it's true that both styles of manufacturing will need machining, but the forged blank style does require substantially more. The entire wheel face and outline is cut out in this process, whereas only the flash from the forging will be removed in a die-forging process.

As I said before, the differences in the forging process explain the difference in cost. Thus your statement regarding Neez's exotic nature is not correct. To quote you directly, you said "The only thing that makes Neez wheels so exotic its the unjustifiable price tag."

The forging process is inherently substantially more complex and expensive, and the price tag is actually quite in line with the costs involved.

In any case, I'll post more photos once I get home from the office, as I've got quite a few on my home computer. I'm sure we'll all be able to appreciate the great looking cars, regardless of what wheels we're selling.

If you'd ever like to discuss manufacturing processes, I'd love to do so over the phone or via PM, you seem like a guy who knows his product, and it's always fun to talk about different ideas and designs with someone like that.

Aaaaanyway! Less talk, more pictures.

I'll post some in a few hours.



EDIT: Oh, and blacksunshine- to answer your question, you're absolutely correct. From a manufacturing standpoint, a distinct advantage of making wheels from blanks is that you can cut a whole bunch of different styles out of the same blank. That's why you'll see wheels like HRE and IForged have that "cut" look to them, with very sharp unfilleted edges. It's because they're machined out of a big round piece of metal.

[canucklion]

less talkie more picie

[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by carlitosz@MORRAlloys.com

+1

[jonm42]

Thank you both for the civilized discussion. Now on with the pix!

[shragon]

Originally Posted by iatacs19

Very well said and your professionalism shows throughout your intelligent response.

+1

a lot of vendors can learn a thing or two about professionalism just by reading that post by ilia. very well written and i learned some things about wheels i didn't know before!

[EisenHaus]

kinda neat to look at this one

[IND-Distribution]

612 at the Neez booth in Japan:


E46 M3 on Eurocross Supers:


E92 335i fitment:




Ferrari meet:

[EisenHaus]

After looking at some of the posts made by other vendor, we just wanted to let you know /also make sure what the Neez brand is all about. Yes, Neez wheels are expensive – but overpriced – we don’t think so..
Neez wheels are/ we should say Neez Brand is specifically targeting and focusing on euro/exotic vehicles - No JDM or US domestic cars. Not to mention these wheels are light, strong, durable and nice, these wheels are made with: all possible experiences from F1 wheel manufacture techniques, countless exotic forged magnesium wheel custom fitment testing / the best technology - currently existing to build products in the world with extreme quality inspections (Q.C) / the best handling and care of products – shipping wheels by single box basis via air-freight from Japan to US or to worldwide.
These wheels are not for everyone – we do sincerely apologize if this statement has a little arrogant attitude, but it is absolutely true statement. When we first met these Neez wheels in person several years back, we were simply speechless… we have been around for quite some time now and we have seen wheels – many different manufacturers, different qualities etc, but these Neez wheels were truly the most advanced and most qualifying wheels that we have ever seen. Not to mention most of Kreissieg Customers prefer Neez wheels over anything, these wheels were just simply amazing!
Neez wheels are the most extreme custom order wheels you can purchase on current market and not everyone can afford it. Please look at our MG Monolicht series/ Not to mention, other fashion boutique brands / pieces from bands such as Cartier, Tiffany or Hermes, the Neez wheels like these mentioned merchandises, carefully hand handled piece by piece from creation to delivery to your hands with extreme care and with all pride of brand. We would like to say: when you purchase Neez wheels you are not only buying the most advanced mono–forged piece in the world, but also you are buying the Neez status, the brand that produces only the best craftsmanship boutique pieces for your Euro / exotic vehicles.
We would also like to emphasize EisenHaus supports Neez wheels that are truly the best wheel products you can get on the market with all confidence and with all our customer supports. Thank you for your attention.
More photos to come!!

Sincerely,

EisenHaus – Neez North America

Vendor; MAlloy - if you have any specific reason to start any other arguments over our NEEZ brand, contact us direclty over the phone - our dealers (including IND) are working hard to educate customers what neez wheels truly are, we do not put comments about your wheels or our private opinions about your wheels to public / or to any other forums. As a paid sponsor of this forum, we are asking you nicely to stay on your own thread to advertise your products - your input on our NEEZ wheel thread is not really appriciated as you may have already noticed. We have tel number, physical warehouse address, website URL and products listed and open to public - therefore if you have any further issues, even complaints you can contact us direclty, we will see what can be done for you. EisenHaus and our dealers will not respond any further to your comments from now on - simply becasue it is not beneficial for our E90 forum friends here. Hope you can see our point. Thank you as well for your understanding.