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      02-17-2021, 04:27 PM   #67
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Not surprising, but a Model S with a "regular" steering wheel was spotted, and the websites source code contained an image of a Model S with this same steering wheel. Notably, the stalks are still gone however.

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      02-17-2021, 04:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Not surprising, but a Model S with a "regular" steering wheel was spotted, and the websites source code contained an image of a Model S with this same steering wheel. Notably, the stalks are still gone however.

He was on Rogan the other day and said the chopped steering wheel was the real deal. Joe said he didn't like it because he drives with his wrist over the top of the wheel like us old timers. LOL

Elon didn't have a response past "oh".

He did say they are building them with the thinking that "any human input is an error" as in when you get in your car - it knows where you are going already and starts to navigate you there - if not driving you there hands free. It knows you are in a parking spot, so it knows you need reverse - no need to tell it. When you back up and stop - it knows you need drive then - no need to tell it.

I do like designing a car with that way of thinking anyway.
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      02-17-2021, 05:31 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
He was on Rogan the other day and said the chopped steering wheel was the real deal. Joe said he didn't like it because he drives with his wrist over the top of the wheel like us old timers. LOL

Elon didn't have a response past "oh".

He did say they are building them with the thinking that "any human input is an error" as in when you get in your car - it knows where you are going already and starts to navigate you there - if not driving you there hands free. It knows you are in a parking spot, so it knows you need reverse - no need to tell it. When you back up and stop - it knows you need drive then - no need to tell it.

I do like designing a car with that way of thinking anyway.
Functionally I don't see what the chopped wheel does for me. Gets rid of a lot of places to hold onto the wheel? Try to drive your current car with hands only at 3 and 9 o'clock and I think people will find it is really difficult, interested in hearing how this new wheel is better.

Same with the turn stalk next to the wheel, I haven't heard how the new solution is a "better".

The "any human input is an error" sounds like a good idea but I am curious to see how well it works. If there isn't a car in front of me in the parking lot, will it go forward or back or know which one makes more sense in the overall plan of where I am going. Same with backing out of my driveway and which way I go on my street, I always leave the same way even though half the time it is the longer route as one way out is far easier to get out onto the main road. The logic becomes a lot more difficult than just "shortest distance".
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      02-17-2021, 05:42 PM   #70
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If you want to be out of the driving equation so badly- just take an Uber/Lyft already!
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      02-17-2021, 06:21 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Functionally I don't see what the chopped wheel does for me. Gets rid of a lot of places to hold onto the wheel? Try to drive your current car with hands only at 3 and 9 o'clock and I think people will find it is really difficult, interested in hearing how this new wheel is better.

Same with the turn stalk next to the wheel, I haven't heard how the new solution is a "better".

The "any human input is an error" sounds like a good idea but I am curious to see how well it works. If there isn't a car in front of me in the parking lot, will it go forward or back or know which one makes more sense in the overall plan of where I am going. Same with backing out of my driveway and which way I go on my street, I always leave the same way even though half the time it is the longer route as one way out is far easier to get out onto the main road. The logic becomes a lot more difficult than just "shortest distance".
I think it was "it looks cool/different" for the wheel. Maybe more display space unobstructed? Joe asked a lot of the same things when he said a gear selector is going to be a thing of the past. Easy to poke holes in it, but if the idea (end goal) is to get in a car and say "go to work" and that's it - then I can see how the steering wheel and gear selector become things to get rid of. Elon told him he would see when they perfected it, but that he (Elon) had already been driving with no gear selector and it was amazing. We will see.

I like the idea of an all out push for self driving cars. Do I want one? not right now. But think about all those numbskulls that you see driving in the left lane clogging up traffic so they can be on their phones. If they were all in one of these in the right lane - we'd have a much clearer left lane!
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      02-17-2021, 06:33 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
I think it was "it looks cool/different" for the wheel. Maybe more display space unobstructed? Joe asked a lot of the same things when he said a gear selector is going to be a thing of the past. Easy to poke holes in it, but if the idea (end goal) is to get in a car and say "go to work" and that's it - then I can see how the steering wheel and gear selector become things to get rid of. Elon told him he would see when they perfected it, but that he (Elon) had already been driving with no gear selector and it was amazing. We will see.

I like the idea of an all out push for self driving cars. Do I want one? not right now. But think about all those numbskulls that you see driving in the left lane clogging up traffic so they can be on their phones. If they were all in one of these in the right lane - we'd have a much clearer left lane!
I have an Engineering degree, looking cool but being less functional drives me crazy when it comes to things we use every day.

I would love to have a self driving car today, not enough to pay much for it but a decent part of my driving is nothing more than a waste of time in traffic. When I traveled over 8 states for my job I would have paid $15k for it as I could have gotten lots done or slept instead of staring off into space on the highway. Working/riding 8 hours would have been massively better than driving for 8 and then working that night.

I don't see the logic in the end goal being a reason to change things today. I don't think Tesla is that close to a true self driving car for most of my driving. Musk keeps saying it is right around the corner but this has been going on for years. Then his plan seems to be a subscription service so if I buy the S, decide I don't want to pay for the self driving (I sure wouldn't now as I drive 4k miles a year) then I am back to a standard car except he seems to want to design it not to work very well with a driver.
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      02-17-2021, 06:47 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Tesla really should put the eye tracking software in their cars for Autopilot. The steering wheels are incredibly easy to trick, and there are far too many lazy and incompetent drivers who take advantage of that.
They already have this
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
This. The Model 3 even has a cabin camera built in, but it's not being used (at least not for driver monitoring). My comma.ai device on my corolla has really amazing driver monitoring and that shit runs off an old smartphone and costs like $800.
The Model 3 camera is indeed used to assess driver attention. For example, there's a setting to notify you when a light turns green, and it only dings if you're not looking forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I have an Engineering degree, looking cool but being less functional drives me crazy when it comes to things we use every day.
I have a marketing degree and selling more cars while increasing brand loyalty sounds like a good idea from a business perspective to me
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      02-17-2021, 06:49 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I have an Engineering degree, looking cool but being less functional drives me crazy when it comes to things we use every day.

I would love to have a self driving car today, not enough to pay much for it but a decent part of my driving is nothing more than a waste of time in traffic. When I traveled over 8 states for my job I would have paid $15k for it as I could have gotten lots done or slept instead of staring off into space on the highway. Working/riding 8 hours would have been massively better than driving for 8 and then working that night.

I don't see the logic in the end goal being a reason to change things today. I don't think Tesla is that close to a true self driving car for most of my driving. Musk keeps saying it is right around the corner but this has been going on for years. Then his plan seems to be a subscription service so if I buy the S, decide I don't want to pay for the self driving (I sure wouldn't now as I drive 4k miles a year) then I am back to a standard car except he seems to want to design it not to work very well with a driver.

Same with me. I have been a multi car owner for many, many years and having a self drive in the stable would be nice for the morning commute and longer drives. It's not there yet, but I have rode in a self drive taxi before and it was pretty impressive and smooth. I think the cars are closer than the roads are. LOL

He talked about self drive trucks and they are already using them some for their own use. Said it would start out as more of a "follow me" set up with a driver upfront and a few self drives behind that would just follow the first truck - etc. I like them pushing. A dedicated self drive truck lane would be amazing for interstate traffic, but my kids will be taking my DL away before I see that I would imagine.

I can certainly enjoy the discussion and journey even though I do not want one. It's cool tech and amazing in my life time I went from changing carb jets in my work parking lot to a car that can drive across town by itself using no gasoline and can out accelerate most modern sports cars to boot......

But them I'm a geek.
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      02-18-2021, 08:48 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
They already have this

The Model 3 camera is indeed used to assess driver attention. For example, there's a setting to notify you when a light turns green, and it only dings if you're not looking forward.

I have a marketing degree and selling more cars while increasing brand loyalty sounds like a good idea from a business perspective to me
This article is from October, did something change or is it wrong? Seems like it is being used to figure out what went wrong as you crashed. They probably aren't marketing this new "feature".

https://electrek.co/2020/10/04/tesla...a-looking-for/

A Tesla hacker has revealed what Tesla’s driver-facing camera in Model 3 and Model Y is looking for — hinting at driver monitoring feature.

When Tesla launched the Model 3, it equipped the vehicle with a standard cabin-facing camera located in the rearview mirror.

At the time, the automaker said that the camera wasn’t active and it would be used in the future.

CEO Elon Musk said that it would be used to prevent people from vandalizing cars when they are being driven automatically on Tesla’s upcoming self-driving robotaxi network.

For almost 3 years, the camera was not used in the Model 3 and Model Y vehicles until earlier this year when Tesla activated the camera for the first time.

The company started collecting images and clips for research purposes with consent from the drivers:

“Help Tesla continue to develop safer vehicles by sharing camera data from your vehicle. This update will allow you to enable the built-in cabin camera above the rearview mirror. If enabled, Tesla will automatically capture images and a short video clip just prior to a collision or safety event to help engineers develop safety features and enhancements in the future.

Tesla is not actively using the camera to monitor drivers’ attention and instead, the automaker says that it only uses the data without being attached to specific drivers to improve existing features and future ones.

Tesla’s only active driver monitoring feature when Autopilot is engaged is detecting if torque is being applied to the wheel.

Several other driver-assist systems, like GM’s Supercruise, are using cabin-facing cameras to make sure drivers are looking at the road.

Electrek’s Take
In the past, Elon has talked down on driver-monitoring based on gaze tracking, but it looks like that’s what Tesla is working on.

However, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Tesla will release such a driver monitoring feature.
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      02-18-2021, 11:22 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
This article is from October, did something change or is it wrong? Seems like it is being used to figure out what went wrong as you crashed. They probably aren't marketing this new "feature".

https://electrek.co/2020/10/04/tesla...a-looking-for/

A Tesla hacker has revealed what Tesla’s driver-facing camera in Model 3 and Model Y is looking for — hinting at driver monitoring feature.

When Tesla launched the Model 3, it equipped the vehicle with a standard cabin-facing camera located in the rearview mirror.

At the time, the automaker said that the camera wasn’t active and it would be used in the future.

CEO Elon Musk said that it would be used to prevent people from vandalizing cars when they are being driven automatically on Tesla’s upcoming self-driving robotaxi network.

For almost 3 years, the camera was not used in the Model 3 and Model Y vehicles until earlier this year when Tesla activated the camera for the first time.

The company started collecting images and clips for research purposes with consent from the drivers:

“Help Tesla continue to develop safer vehicles by sharing camera data from your vehicle. This update will allow you to enable the built-in cabin camera above the rearview mirror. If enabled, Tesla will automatically capture images and a short video clip just prior to a collision or safety event to help engineers develop safety features and enhancements in the future.

Tesla is not actively using the camera to monitor drivers’ attention and instead, the automaker says that it only uses the data without being attached to specific drivers to improve existing features and future ones.

Tesla’s only active driver monitoring feature when Autopilot is engaged is detecting if torque is being applied to the wheel.

Several other driver-assist systems, like GM’s Supercruise, are using cabin-facing cameras to make sure drivers are looking at the road.

Electrek’s Take
In the past, Elon has talked down on driver-monitoring based on gaze tracking, but it looks like that’s what Tesla is working on.

However, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Tesla will release such a driver monitoring feature.
They must have pushed an update out since the article was written. The friend of mine who owns the model 3 is an autopilot engineer at Tesla so I'll ask him if theres any more info he can share about what exactly the interior camera currently does/is used for.

If you're interested, here's a quick clip we shot over the weekend of the car driving itself from my house to Netflix HQ. I'm the guy riding shotgun with the overgrown hairdo
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      02-18-2021, 01:26 PM   #77
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The "they must have pushed an update" - somewhere this would be reported if true and I am skeptical it happened.

The video is interesting and it looks close to working most of the time. The problem is until it works 99.999%, at least on roads it can tell you it will work 99.999% of the time being "kind of close" isn't worth much. Then 95% to 100% will be massively harder than the 0-95%.

In the video where he says he will keep his hands on the wheel and paying attention as it is a beta (as recommended), I agree completely, just wouldn't care enough to bother and would just drive.
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      02-18-2021, 02:26 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
The "they must have pushed an update" - somewhere this would be reported if true and I am skeptical it happened.

The video is interesting and it looks close to working most of the time. The problem is until it works 99.999%, at least on roads it can tell you it will work 99.999% of the time being "kind of close" isn't worth much. Then 95% to 100% will be massively harder than the 0-95%.

In the video where he says he will keep his hands on the wheel and paying attention as it is a beta (as recommended), I agree completely, just wouldn't care enough to bother and would just drive.
I agree 100%. Babysitting the beta is 10x more stressful than actually driving--but that's why its a beta that ~200 cars have and not released to the general public.
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      02-18-2021, 02:33 PM   #79
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The "they must have pushed an update" - somewhere this would be reported if true and I am skeptical it happened.
It certainly happened, it happens all the time, and is reported. They’ve pushed 2021.4.3 this month (year.week.version). Source:

https://evbite.com/tesla-latest-software-updates/
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      02-18-2021, 03:13 PM   #80
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It certainly happened, it happens all the time, and is reported. They’ve pushed 2021.4.3 this month (year.week.version). Source:

https://evbite.com/tesla-latest-software-updates/
This link is pages long. Did you find where it said it would monitor the driver and verify he is paying attention? I don't see it.
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      02-22-2021, 03:02 PM   #81
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Plaid Model S spied with regular steering wheel, no stalks, and wider rear fenders.


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