Replaced o2 Sensor, still have code P112D/2C3E

HydroxFrost · 06-26-2020, 05:27 PM

So after my car being a massive pain lately, I had to replace the o2 sensor (Bank 2, sensor 1). Ended up taking it to a mechanic because I couldnt get the bracket bolts off for the life of me, turns out he couldnt either so he cut around the bracket. Anyway, he got the new o2 sensor in and it was stalling on the way home until I cleared the codes, went for an hour long drive without any stalling or issues before I parked it to deal with my tie rod nightmare, noticed the code had returned at some point during the drive but never had any stalling or issues. Today, after replacing my inner and outer tie rods I drove it 5 minutes to an alignment shop. I stalled out every time I had to stop, the P112D & 2C3E codes persist for the same sensor I replaced. I'm assuming its a fuse or wiring. How might I go about fixing this? I'm good at just about everything that doesn't involve electrical. Anyone have similar issues that they fixed?

Bmw_Crazy · 06-27-2020, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HydroxFrost

So after my car being a massive pain lately, I had to replace the o2 sensor (Bank 2, sensor 1). Ended up taking it to a mechanic because I couldnt get the bracket bolts off for the life of me, turns out he couldnt either so he cut around the bracket. Anyway, he got the new o2 sensor in and it was stalling on the way home until I cleared the codes, went for an hour long drive without any stalling or issues before I parked it to deal with my tie rod nightmare, noticed the code had returned at some point during the drive but never had any stalling or issues. Today, after replacing my inner and outer tie rods I drove it 5 minutes to an alignment shop. I stalled out every time I had to stop, the P112D & 2C3E codes persist for the same sensor I replaced. I'm assuming its a fuse or wiring. How might I go about fixing this? I'm good at just about everything that doesn't involve electrical. Anyone have similar issues that they fixed?

Check the other 02 sensors...

E92William · 06-27-2020, 10:18 PM

Follow the wiring all the way around see if there's any issue with it. What brand sensor did you replace with? Stalling usually could be from a heavy vacuum leak. Do you have an obd2 scanner that can do live data? Would be great to check the fuel trims.
Also any other codes? Does it stall only at low rpm or what?

HydroxFrost · 06-29-2020, 02:25 AM

So I decided to re-route the o2 sensor wiring to see if I could find anything and it turns out after the re-route I plugged the sensors back in, used some pliers to get it to click in properly and the code went away and hasn't come back. I am still stalling though, I believe it has something to do with the brake booster check valve. I get a hard pedal after sitting for a few days but since I got the car, the revs will bounce around if you hold down the brake after a cold start. It only stalls when I brake, moreso if the braking is hard and it only stalls when braking at low rpms. I think it might be pulling too much vacuum, anyone else experience this? Could possibly need a new ccv as well but I can't afford to replace the whole system at the moment.

PhaseP · 06-29-2020, 06:02 PM

You have an air to fuel ratio problem but it is not relate to the brakes.
Brake boosters in these cars don't use engine intake vacuum. A separate vacuum pump provides the brake booster vacuum. So your stalling has nothing to do with brake vacuum.

About brake booster loosing vacuum after sitting a day, there is a DIY you can find in this forum on how to fix that. It won't help your stalling issue though.

HydroxFrost · 06-29-2020, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaseP

You have an air to fuel ratio problem but it is not relate to the brakes.
Brake boosters in these cars don't use engine intake vacuum. A separate vacuum pump provides the brake booster vacuum. So your stalling has nothing to do with brake vacuum.

About brake booster loosing vacuum after sitting a day, there is a DIY you can find in this forum on how to fix that. It won't help your stalling issue though.

Car is missing the maf sensor because I've yet to replace the wiring but I've been driving without a maf since I got the car and it runs great. It has to be something else causing the problem but I get no codes, no rough idle, etc. Just stalling when I stop the car at a light or stop sign. No loss of power either, car seems to be running perfectly otherwise. I recently changed the spark plugs maybe 2000 km ago.

PhaseP · 07-02-2020, 04:56 AM

maf is only one part of the air to fuel ratio calculations ECU uses to maintain it optimum level and also regulate idle or slowing down rpms.

From your description I gather you have an automatic transmission.
You wrote it stalls when you brake and rpms are reduced.

If you think about it, engine cannot stall when rpms are high. Because it is already turning with enough momentum to overcome its internal frictions. When engine was running at high rpm even if the fuel was cut off completely, it won't stall until its rpms reduce to low level where the rotational energy it has in its moving parts is not enough to overcome the friction and force required to pumping air. Then it will stall.

If you don't give gas and engine rpm is above certain level, engine computer actually cuts of fuel unless you depress the gas pedal. On my car, which has manual transmission, computer doesn't give any fuel to engine while coasting as long as the rpm is above 1K. Once it slows down to 1K it starts sending fuel to it, to prevent it from stalling. I can observe this easily due to that otherwise completely useless mpg gauge they put on the dashboard.

Now as you are braking, engine slows down too. And with automatic transmission when you are in drive and braking, engine has to work against the braking load in addition to its internal friction and other losses. The computer has to adjust the fuel it gives to the engine just enough not to cause the engine drop its rpm too low that would stall it, but not too much that would cause the engine surge and launch the car forward while driver is trying to brake.

The amount of fuel goes to the engine is instructed by computer to the fuel injectors by how long they stay open per cycle. The amount of fuel injected by the injectors also depend on the fuel pressure at their inlet.

So you have injectors and fuel pressure as actors in the correct air fuel ratio.
Then computer needs to know how much air is going into the engine to determine how much fuel it needs to instruct the injectors to inject. For that it uses the MAF sensor. Without MAF sensor it is able to calculate the air amount from engine rpm and intake temperature.

So you have those too.

Then computer needs a validation of what it decided is what is happening, i.e. how much air and fuel gets mixed and burned up in real inside the engine. For that it gets readings from the oxygen sensor on the exhaust.
It compares the values from oxygen sensor to what it was expecting and made adjustments to its calculations on how much fuel engine needs.

So you have the oxygen sensors too.

If there is something wrong with any of those, engine can have trouble maintaining steady idle, which is also related to maintaining enough rpm while you are braking on an automatic transmission car as rpms go down.

As example a vacuum leak into the intake after the MAF sensor causes confusion to the computer, because it is amount of air that goes into the engine it doesn't know about and doesn't use in its calculations (if engine was using the maf sensor)

An exhaust leak close before or even after but close approximate to where the oxygen sensors are can also cause the oxygen sensor report incorrect values. The flanged connection point where the exhaust manifold pipes connect to mid exhaust pipes are common point for exhaust leak with older e90 N52s. The bolts and flanges corrode and start leaking at that connection by time. This is close to at least one of the oxygen sensors after the cat converter. I don't know leak there would cause stalling because it is after the cat converter, so that would only monitor the effectiveness of the cat converter. The precat o2 sensors would monitor how much fuel still in exhaust, those are more likely to cause stalling.

The injectors are very seldom reported to cause issues on N52s. The fuel pump or the fuel pressure regulator maybe. There is a fuel pressure test point at the fuel rail, which is kind of a Schroder valve.

Sensors like crank position sensor, or the eccentric shaft sensor may also cause problem, if they are not giving correct value to computer. Although I would expect you would get codes for those. Not sure though.

Do you see oil on the eccentric shaft sensor connection at the valve cover?

HydroxFrost · 07-14-2020, 02:50 AM

There isn't any oil on the connection at all. No codes for anything, stalling seems to happen rarely now for some reason. Maybe it had to adapt to the new part? If it is the exhaust, I'll know soon enough because I'm going to get the secondary cats taken out at some point and I'll fix it then. That being said, I don't really overly see it causing my stalling because like you said, its past the o2 sensors. Unless I made a vacuum leak I already had worse, it doesn't make too much sense to me. My brother removed the connector for the eccentric shaft while the car was turned off, he didn't alter the position it was in though. Not sure if that has anything to do with it but on the 06 that has to be relearned after a VCG job. Hmm...

06-26-2020, 05:27 PM	#1
HydroxFrost @Lucky.330i 39 Rep 91 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Jeep Compass [0.00] 2006 Chrysler 300 [0.00] 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	Replaced o2 Sensor, still have code P112D/2C3E So after my car being a massive pain lately, I had to replace the o2 sensor (Bank 2, sensor 1). Ended up taking it to a mechanic because I couldnt get the bracket bolts off for the life of me, turns out he couldnt either so he cut around the bracket. Anyway, he got the new o2 sensor in and it was stalling on the way home until I cleared the codes, went for an hour long drive without any stalling or issues before I parked it to deal with my tie rod nightmare, noticed the code had returned at some point during the drive but never had any stalling or issues. Today, after replacing my inner and outer tie rods I drove it 5 minutes to an alignment shop. I stalled out every time I had to stop, the P112D & 2C3E codes persist for the same sensor I replaced. I'm assuming its a fuse or wiring. How might I go about fixing this? I'm good at just about everything that doesn't involve electrical. Anyone have similar issues that they fixed?
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06-27-2020, 10:18 PM	#3
E92William Banned 1998 Rep 2,026 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 328xi Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Miami iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 328xi [0.00]	Follow the wiring all the way around see if there's any issue with it. What brand sensor did you replace with? Stalling usually could be from a heavy vacuum leak. Do you have an obd2 scanner that can do live data? Would be great to check the fuel trims. Also any other codes? Does it stall only at low rpm or what?
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06-29-2020, 02:25 AM	#4
HydroxFrost @Lucky.330i 39 Rep 91 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Jeep Compass [0.00] 2006 Chrysler 300 [0.00] 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	So I decided to re-route the o2 sensor wiring to see if I could find anything and it turns out after the re-route I plugged the sensors back in, used some pliers to get it to click in properly and the code went away and hasn't come back. I am still stalling though, I believe it has something to do with the brake booster check valve. I get a hard pedal after sitting for a few days but since I got the car, the revs will bounce around if you hold down the brake after a cold start. It only stalls when I brake, moreso if the braking is hard and it only stalls when braking at low rpms. I think it might be pulling too much vacuum, anyone else experience this? Could possibly need a new ccv as well but I can't afford to replace the whole system at the moment.
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06-29-2020, 06:02 PM	#5
PhaseP Colonel 1007 Rep 2,108 Posts Drives: 325XI Join Date: May 2010 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	You have an air to fuel ratio problem but it is not relate to the brakes. Brake boosters in these cars don't use engine intake vacuum. A separate vacuum pump provides the brake booster vacuum. So your stalling has nothing to do with brake vacuum. About brake booster loosing vacuum after sitting a day, there is a DIY you can find in this forum on how to fix that. It won't help your stalling issue though.
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07-02-2020, 04:56 AM	#7
PhaseP Colonel 1007 Rep 2,108 Posts Drives: 325XI Join Date: May 2010 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	maf is only one part of the air to fuel ratio calculations ECU uses to maintain it optimum level and also regulate idle or slowing down rpms. From your description I gather you have an automatic transmission. You wrote it stalls when you brake and rpms are reduced. If you think about it, engine cannot stall when rpms are high. Because it is already turning with enough momentum to overcome its internal frictions. When engine was running at high rpm even if the fuel was cut off completely, it won't stall until its rpms reduce to low level where the rotational energy it has in its moving parts is not enough to overcome the friction and force required to pumping air. Then it will stall. If you don't give gas and engine rpm is above certain level, engine computer actually cuts of fuel unless you depress the gas pedal. On my car, which has manual transmission, computer doesn't give any fuel to engine while coasting as long as the rpm is above 1K. Once it slows down to 1K it starts sending fuel to it, to prevent it from stalling. I can observe this easily due to that otherwise completely useless mpg gauge they put on the dashboard. Now as you are braking, engine slows down too. And with automatic transmission when you are in drive and braking, engine has to work against the braking load in addition to its internal friction and other losses. The computer has to adjust the fuel it gives to the engine just enough not to cause the engine drop its rpm too low that would stall it, but not too much that would cause the engine surge and launch the car forward while driver is trying to brake. The amount of fuel goes to the engine is instructed by computer to the fuel injectors by how long they stay open per cycle. The amount of fuel injected by the injectors also depend on the fuel pressure at their inlet. So you have injectors and fuel pressure as actors in the correct air fuel ratio. Then computer needs to know how much air is going into the engine to determine how much fuel it needs to instruct the injectors to inject. For that it uses the MAF sensor. Without MAF sensor it is able to calculate the air amount from engine rpm and intake temperature. So you have those too. Then computer needs a validation of what it decided is what is happening, i.e. how much air and fuel gets mixed and burned up in real inside the engine. For that it gets readings from the oxygen sensor on the exhaust. It compares the values from oxygen sensor to what it was expecting and made adjustments to its calculations on how much fuel engine needs. So you have the oxygen sensors too. If there is something wrong with any of those, engine can have trouble maintaining steady idle, which is also related to maintaining enough rpm while you are braking on an automatic transmission car as rpms go down. As example a vacuum leak into the intake after the MAF sensor causes confusion to the computer, because it is amount of air that goes into the engine it doesn't know about and doesn't use in its calculations (if engine was using the maf sensor) An exhaust leak close before or even after but close approximate to where the oxygen sensors are can also cause the oxygen sensor report incorrect values. The flanged connection point where the exhaust manifold pipes connect to mid exhaust pipes are common point for exhaust leak with older e90 N52s. The bolts and flanges corrode and start leaking at that connection by time. This is close to at least one of the oxygen sensors after the cat converter. I don't know leak there would cause stalling because it is after the cat converter, so that would only monitor the effectiveness of the cat converter. The precat o2 sensors would monitor how much fuel still in exhaust, those are more likely to cause stalling. The injectors are very seldom reported to cause issues on N52s. The fuel pump or the fuel pressure regulator maybe. There is a fuel pressure test point at the fuel rail, which is kind of a Schroder valve. Sensors like crank position sensor, or the eccentric shaft sensor may also cause problem, if they are not giving correct value to computer. Although I would expect you would get codes for those. Not sure though. Do you see oil on the eccentric shaft sensor connection at the valve cover?
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07-14-2020, 02:50 AM	#8
HydroxFrost @Lucky.330i 39 Rep 91 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Jeep Compass [0.00] 2006 Chrysler 300 [0.00] 2006 BMW 330i [0.00]	There isn't any oil on the connection at all. No codes for anything, stalling seems to happen rarely now for some reason. Maybe it had to adapt to the new part? If it is the exhaust, I'll know soon enough because I'm going to get the secondary cats taken out at some point and I'll fix it then. That being said, I don't really overly see it causing my stalling because like you said, its past the o2 sensors. Unless I made a vacuum leak I already had worse, it doesn't make too much sense to me. My brother removed the connector for the eccentric shaft while the car was turned off, he didn't alter the position it was in though. Not sure if that has anything to do with it but on the 06 that has to be relearned after a VCG job. Hmm...
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