E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 ESS Supercharger issues



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-21-2019, 02:11 PM   #111
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
2913
Rep
6,112
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

I think you want it in the main path of the airflow, like just before or after the throttle.

I would consider trying to use the stock euro IAT, or at least one that uses the same element. as Biginboca discovered, the aftermarket ones are much slower than the stock one is.

I think a broken flap *could* potentially cause drivability issues (surging etc), however I don't think it would cause a lean condition.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2019, 08:29 PM   #112
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

hassmachine, is the port where the evap/purge line connects (right behind the throttle body) stable enough to use for a source for a boost gauge? It's capped after installing this kit and as the throttle body isn't always in motion as it is on older vehicles I figure it may be an ideal location. No pulsations from the valves nor fluctuations from the DISA valves opening and closing. And it's very easy to get to .
Appreciate 0
      08-22-2019, 10:25 AM   #113
hassmaschine
Major General
United_States
2913
Rep
6,112
Posts

Drives: "NBO" 330i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: earth

iTrader: (0)

I don't see why not. But of course keep in mind it's plastic. Maybe drill it out and epoxy in a barb fitting.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #114
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

Was it someone here who is running meth injection with their supercharged N52? I've got a kit on order and I'm trying to figure out if there's a good spot near the throttle body versus using a sandwich type bung on the silicone charge pipe itself.
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2019, 07:57 PM   #115
Kubricks
Private First Class
100
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 130i M/T
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Taunton UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
Was it someone here who is running meth injection with their supercharged N52? I've got a kit on order and I'm trying to figure out if there's a good spot near the throttle body versus using a sandwich type bung on the silicone charge pipe itself.
I was planning to but couldn't find a good location for the injection pot.
The hard plastic pipe connecting between the intake and SC would be the easiest location, but having the meth injected prior to the SC isn't ideal.
Meanwhile the silicone charge should be good spot but the pipe itself has came off a few times (in 2 years) due to thermo expansion, I am not sure fixing more stuff on it is a good idea at all.
__________________
130i manual | ESS Supercharged | Custom remap
Birds B1 Suspension set | Vorshlag Camber plate | Quaife Limited slip differential | M3 Chassis parts

Last edited by Kubricks; 09-08-2019 at 09:33 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2019, 10:08 PM   #116
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, I'm not going to inject it before the SC. I considered it but I would rather have it enter the compressed airflow and avoid the worries of cavitation and condensation.

I suppose I'm going to have to place it in the silicone charge pipe. If that fails, I'll just have to cut the charge pipe in half and put a metal coupler in the middle with a bung welded in. The latter would definitely hold up better but I'm just so reluctant to start hacking away at a brand new kit. :P

The kit will be here on Tuesday but I won't be able to install it until Saturday.... So, being impatient as hell, I'll probably stay up late and install it on Tuesday and then bribe a tuner to get it tuned ASAP. (Time to look ideal tank locations and figure out where I'm going to wire it in.)
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2019, 10:27 PM   #117
Kubricks
Private First Class
100
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 130i M/T
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Taunton UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I suppose I'm going to have to place it in the silicone charge pipe. If that fails, I'll just have to cut the charge pipe in half and put a metal coupler in the middle with a bung welded in.
That silicone charge pipe is short and it bends all the way from the SC to the manifold, I am not sure there is enough space to work on a metal coupler.
The best case would be to custom design a metal piece to swap out the whole charge pipe, which is something I am not prepared to do... yet.

Wish you luck though.
__________________
130i manual | ESS Supercharged | Custom remap
Birds B1 Suspension set | Vorshlag Camber plate | Quaife Limited slip differential | M3 Chassis parts
Appreciate 1
      09-20-2019, 01:57 AM   #118
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

I went ahead and installed a silicone coupler tap for the meth nozzle. So far, no issues. If i end up having problems I've got a couple old friends who do fine tig welding that are willing to give it a go, Hopefully, it won't come to that. I tapped a location about 2" before the throttle body and as the throttle body is supposedly static during usual operation it should work well. I've checked periodically after installing the meth injection and there aren't any signs of pooling. As is do be expected, I'm running richer. A tune is definitely in order. I'm going to order a smaller pulley first though. I still haven't asked ESS if a Vortech V3 pulley will fit the G1 or what sizes they offer.
Appreciate 4
      09-22-2019, 08:44 PM   #119
Kubricks
Private First Class
100
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 130i M/T
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Taunton UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I went ahead and installed a silicone coupler tap for the meth nozzle. So far, no issues. If i end up having problems I've got a couple old friends who do fine tig welding that are willing to give it a go, Hopefully, it won't come to that. I tapped a location about 2" before the throttle body and as the throttle body is supposedly static during usual operation it should work well. I've checked periodically after installing the meth injection and there aren't any signs of pooling. As is do be expected, I'm running richer. A tune is definitely in order. I'm going to order a smaller pulley first though. I still haven't asked ESS if a Vortech V3 pulley will fit the G1 or what sizes they offer.
Would you be able to take a photo of the said nozzle fitted on the silicone tube?
I have been planning the same and contemplating whether I should place it pre-charger or post. With my original 120mm pulley the impeller speed should be able to withstand the injection pre-charger, if I decided to do it that way.
__________________
130i manual | ESS Supercharged | Custom remap
Birds B1 Suspension set | Vorshlag Camber plate | Quaife Limited slip differential | M3 Chassis parts
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2019, 12:56 AM   #120
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

This will do for now. It's really the only decent location post compressor for a single nozzle setup. It could be moved a couple more inches away from the engine by putting it on the bottom of the charge pipe but I wanted it somewhere I can visually inspect it. It just clears the air filter bay about an inch.

I used "Right Stuff" sealant on the front and back side of the coupler to help ensure it adheres, and cleaner everything with dish soap and a final wipe of alcohol to prep it.

Name:  20190913_202013.jpg
Views: 268
Size:  231.3 KB
Appreciate 1
      09-24-2019, 05:42 PM   #121
Michaellcoates
Lieutenant
Michaellcoates's Avatar
251
Rep
535
Posts

Drives: 2012 328i xDrive e91
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Kettering ohio

iTrader: (2)

Quick update, after 20+ tune revisions, every time the car adapted and used LTFTs it would completely shit the bed with lean trims during light throttle and Rich during idle. Bob send a base tune for a Euro 330, turns out the DME is way outdated. I don't know what happened but this new tune has been working flawlessly over a week, so now we have a good starting point! Will keep you update. I love my car again
__________________
2012 E91m3 custom build

Follow on Instagram: michaellcoates
Appreciate 2
dwashy49.50
Noir496.50

      09-24-2019, 06:16 PM   #122
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Quick update, after 20+ tune revisions, every time the car adapted and used LTFTs it would completely shit the bed with lean trims during light throttle and Rich during idle. Bob send a base tune for a Euro 330, turns out the DME is way outdated. I don't know what happened but this new tune has been working flawlessly over a week, so now we have a good starting point! Will keep you update. I love my car again
Excellent news!!! Keep us posted as things progress.
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2019, 06:40 PM   #123
rjahl
Lieutenant Colonel
rjahl's Avatar
573
Rep
1,639
Posts

Drives: Z4 35is
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2012 Z4 35is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Quick update, after 20+ tune revisions, every time the car adapted and used LTFTs it would completely shit the bed with lean trims during light throttle and Rich during idle. Bob send a base tune for a Euro 330, turns out the DME is way outdated. I don't know what happened but this new tune has been working flawlessly over a week, so now we have a good starting point! Will keep you update. I love my car again
Interesting, I can't imagine Bob tuning anything other than the 921 program. Way too much hassle to map out an older program.

Euro 330, I thought that's was the Maf-less tune thats been around for a while.

Edit: you have a later model car running the MSV80. Program will not be the 921, that's the latest for the MSV70.

Last edited by rjahl; 09-24-2019 at 08:18 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-24-2019, 07:45 PM   #124
Michaellcoates
Lieutenant
Michaellcoates's Avatar
251
Rep
535
Posts

Drives: 2012 328i xDrive e91
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Kettering ohio

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Quick update, after 20+ tune revisions, every time the car adapted and used LTFTs it would completely shit the bed with lean trims during light throttle and Rich during idle. Bob send a base tune for a Euro 330, turns out the DME is way outdated. I don't know what happened but this new tune has been working flawlessly over a week, so now we have a good starting point! Will keep you update. I love my car again
Interesting, I can't imagine Bob tuning anything other than the 921 program. Way too much hassle to map out an older program.

Euro 330, I thought that's was the Maf-less tune thats been around for a while.
All I know is, Bob said the DME software had compatibility issues with the tune he was using because the software was so outdated, used a base tune from a Euro 330 and it's working amazing. I'm sure there are details and information Bob didn't share due to my lack of tuning comprehension , I try to ask questions and learn, but he's also super busy. Just so thankful he didn't throw his hands up and give up. I seriously love this car again, I was biting my lip every time I drove it, totally dreading the issues I was sure to have.
__________________
2012 E91m3 custom build

Follow on Instagram: michaellcoates
Appreciate 4
Biginboca1173.00
Rmtt1433.00
dwashy49.50
Noir496.50

      10-06-2019, 03:16 AM   #125
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

I installed a 4.25"/108mm Vortech V3 pulley yesterday. No, it's not a direct fit and required some minor machining. I have to say... DAMN! I finally got what I want out if this car. I still need to have tuning done but it feels solid and plenty of power although due to the meth injection it's running quite rich. I'm going to go easy on it until I have time later this week to do some data logging and reviewing.
Appreciate 2
Noir496.50

      10-06-2019, 08:36 PM   #126
Michaellcoates
Lieutenant
Michaellcoates's Avatar
251
Rep
535
Posts

Drives: 2012 328i xDrive e91
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Kettering ohio

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I installed a 4.25"/108mm Vortech V3 pulley yesterday. No, it's not a direct fit and required some minor machining. I have to say... DAMN! I finally got what I want out if this car. I still need to have tuning done but it feels solid and plenty of power although due to the meth injection it's running quite rich. I'm going to go easy on it until I have time later this week to do some data logging and reviewing.
Nice!! I'm current tuning up the e50 tune, running so well, super impressed with this N52 motor. I'm going to run through the gas, send the logs and get a dyno on the 93 tune this week. Once the tweaks are made to the e50 tune, I'll run dyno again. Curious to see where I'm at with the 110mm pulley, this thing pulls and feels very similar to my old Mazdaspeed 6 big turbo as far as high end power. I was pushing 360 awhp. Depending how the trans holds up, I'll look to meth as well since your silicone port has been working out in the charge pipe. I'm considering the X delete app as well, I've seen it helps with reducing power loss.

I was really hoping to get on the S65 swap in this winter but since I've battled so hard with the tuning, I feel I need some redemption and time. Still doing the rear and quarters install plus a full Tanzanite Blue respray, so that should hold me over a bit.
__________________
2012 E91m3 custom build

Follow on Instagram: michaellcoates
Appreciate 1
NYBulldog735.50

      10-10-2019, 09:02 PM   #127
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Nice!! I'm current tuning up the e50 tune, running so well, super impressed with this N52 motor. I'm going to run through the gas, send the logs and get a dyno on the 93 tune this week. Once the tweaks are made to the e50 tune, I'll run dyno again. Curious to see where I'm at with the 110mm pulley, this thing pulls and feels very similar to my old Mazdaspeed 6 big turbo as far as high end power. I was pushing 360 awhp. Depending how the trans holds up, I'll look to meth as well since your silicone port has been working out in the charge pipe. I'm considering the X delete app as well, I've seen it helps with reducing power loss.

I was really hoping to get on the S65 swap in this winter but since I've battled so hard with the tuning, I feel I need some redemption and time. Still doing the rear and quarters install plus a full Tanzanite Blue respray, so that should hold me over a bit.
What's the X delete app for? Also, What are you using for data logging?

I don't have any signs of pooling as far as I can tell. I pulled the charge pipe and it's dry. I heard a rattle before the pulley upgrade, so I finally pulled the large DISA valve... shot. So I've got a replacement on the way. I expect my low RPM/boost response should improve a fair bit. As for concerns about pooling, I need to free up a couple hours to pull the intake manifold to really check. I'm still running the smallest nozzle set to start at one PSI and with 7psi as the full mark.

I replied earlier to someone whose shop put the boost signal in the upper part of the plenum. It donned on me that that spot is probably a good one as BMW put the MAP sensor in the same location. Now that I've seen how the port behind the throttle body reports I'm going to go ahead and place a port in the upper plenum in order to compare... Because... why not? :P
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2019, 08:43 AM   #128
NYBulldog
Specialist
736
Rep
2,090
Posts

Drives: Nikes
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NuYawk

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
Nice!! I'm current tuning up the e50 tune, running so well, super impressed with this N52 motor. I'm going to run through the gas, send the logs and get a dyno on the 93 tune this week. Once the tweaks are made to the e50 tune, I'll run dyno again. Curious to see where I'm at with the 110mm pulley, this thing pulls and feels very similar to my old Mazdaspeed 6 big turbo as far as high end power. I was pushing 360 awhp. Depending how the trans holds up, I'll look to meth as well since your silicone port has been working out in the charge pipe. I'm considering the X delete app as well, I've seen it helps with reducing power loss.

I was really hoping to get on the S65 swap in this winter but since I've battled so hard with the tuning, I feel I need some redemption and time. Still doing the rear and quarters install plus a full Tanzanite Blue respray, so that should hold me over a bit.
Sounds like I'm taking a trip out to Ohio

Way to stay committed
I'm a quitter
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 09:40 AM   #129
Noir
Major
Noir's Avatar
497
Rep
1,028
Posts

Drives: 2006 E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRE View Post
I installed a 4.25"/108mm Vortech V3 pulley yesterday. No, it's not a direct fit and required some minor machining. I have to say... DAMN! I finally got what I want out if this car. I still need to have tuning done but it feels solid and plenty of power although due to the meth injection it's running quite rich. I'm going to go easy on it until I have time later this week to do some data logging and reviewing.
Bad ass. When you find out how much boost you're currently making, please let me know!
__________________
See you, space cowboy.
Boosted
Appreciate 0
      10-14-2019, 09:05 PM   #130
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

I tapped the upper plenum for a boost signal and compared that to the evap/purge Port behind the throttle body and there isn't any significant difference. I talked to a local engine builder and he said it shouldn't make any difference. The valves could cause pulsations but not on a remotely stock engine and in that case they would just add a damper.


I hooked up a boost gauge I've had sitting on a shelf for a couple years and sadly, my altitude comes with a bigger penalty than I expected. I'm hitting around 6psi peak with the 108mm pulley. I talked to the guys at ESS and they said that's about right. At sealevel, I'd be at about 7.5psi with a 110mm pulley. They said at sea level each 5mm step is around 1psi. Doing the math, at my altitude each step of 5mm nets around .8psi (given that the air is 20% less dense than at sea level). I'm in Denver, by the way.

Sooooo, I'll be ordering a 4" pulley (99mm) from Vortech soon. Since I can machine them for free, they're much cheaper than the $160 that ESS quoted. That would bring me into the 7 maybe 7.5psi range.

I'll have to remember to keep a wrench and a larger pulley in the trunk if I go on a road trip. 9.5psi might be awesome but I might end up having to catch a flight to get back home.
Appreciate 2
      10-15-2019, 06:47 PM   #131
CRE
Private
United_States
30
Rep
52
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0si Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

iTrader: (0)

An interesting find. I took out the boost gauge so I haven't had time to see how it's reading now. I replaced my main DISA valve yesterday and now my WMI is triggering around 1700rpm at WOT whereas with the dead valve (glued open) my WMI wasn't triggering until about 3krpm. It'll be interesting to see how it reads with the boost gauge and if it affects the port by the throttle body as well. I can't recall at what rpm it was triggering on the TB port.
Appreciate 1
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST