[Thecastle]

Long, live the BMW inline 6 diesels. They are now officially dead in the US it seems, which only leaves the 328d, which sounds to be executed as well with the new generation. Some of you may already be aware of this. I'm pouring some diesel out on the curb for those who will never know the pleasure of a diesel.

https://jalopnik.com/bmws-diesels-fa...ica-1829004416

I did confirm with my dealership (for what that is worth) that the 5 series has dropped the 540d for MY19, and you can no longer order the 5 with a diesel. Also the X5 is not shipping with a diesel option. The sales / service staff say BMW is not currently planning to release a 2019+ X5 with a diesel option. Just a hybrid option is coming.

I've enjoyed the inline 6 diesel M57 engine a lot, and would own a diesel again (in spite of its unreliability). But it would appear BMW for now is abandoning diesels just like MB and VAG.

Also with the cruze getting the axe, the future for diesel outside of pickups/small SUVS is looking to be a thing of the past. Much like manual transmissions.

Not to say Mazda or Chevy won't keep building them in small SUVs.

[RL18]

Such bs. I went to Europe this past april and EVERY car was a diesel. It was awesome. No smog, no dirty air or anything... Shit bmw could source their I-6 diesel in the tacomas or the tundras and I bet that would sell with all the light duty pickup diesels coming out in 2019. I’d buy that. Atleast I got my diesel bimmer while I could though lol.

[BB_cuda]

Thecastle, our local Advantage still has (2) 2018 X5D for FWIW. They told me same story. The US plant that manufactures X5 will still make the X5D for 2019 but only for export.

[Thecastle]

I also heard that GM is stopping all ICE engine development. I laughed and said I didn't know GM had developed a new engine in the last 20 years.

[ground_zero]

If that is true I will no longer buy GM products, I drive Volt which they stupidly cancelled along with my BMW.

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I also heard that GM is stopping all ICE engine development. I laughed and said I didn't know GM had developed a new engine in the last 20 years.

Yep, they have been slow to embrace overhead cam technology unlike Ford. That said, Dodge's 4.6L "cammer" V8 turned out to be a NOGO.

Sorry for the side track on domestic side. Back to no more BMW diesels in North America.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by ground_zero

If that is true I will no longer buy GM products, I drive Volt which they stupidly cancelled along with my BMW.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.41b6f688cfc0

Its kind of already public knowledge that their internal combustion engine development is on hold. But then again, maybe another boneheaded move by GM to set themselves up for another bailout....

Though I question, why bother throwing money at electric engine development.... What is there to develop, the parts already exist, just buy them.

The volt never sold well, for better or worse. The problem with GM/Ford/Fiat is they never could build a competitive car in north america. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, VAG, Etc. all are still building cars.

So GM/Ford/FIAT's strategy is to sell pickups and and SUVs. Ford is the only one who made an annocement to that effect. In case you hadn't noticed, FIAT, has pretty much culled all of its cars. whats left? Dodge charger, and 300?

[ground_zero]

They are still making the Coupes in the US but domestic Sedans are a dying breed.
The most hilarious rumor is the 4-door mustang that I guess is made to compete with the Charger for those people who want Mustang performance but sedan practicality.
I guess we will see a Renaissance of sport sedans in the US much like BMW and I for one welcome that, Perhaps if it takes off and doesn't tank we will see Camaro sedans too.

But that's probably wishful thinking, CUV's, Electric and automated driving technology is the future it seems and enthusiast cars will become a niche market.

My Volt is an awesome car, They originally planned to make it under the Buick brand and it does show, It's a lot like the Verano inside and of course shares platforms with the Cruze as well, China actually does market the Volt under the desirable Buick brand name which makes sense.

I guess GM figured with the LS engines it can't get much better than that and electrics is what's selling and quite frankly electric powertrains have less warranty issues, The biggest points of failure in electric engines are the magnets which eventually will wear out and of course the battery but they are overengineered to last a minimum of 100k miles before losing any charge and since they only utilize 2/3rds of the battery there is enough of a margin of error for it to last, There is an example out there with 350k on the odometer and not showing any signs of failing besides a minor loss of battery power.

When the battery lost most of it's charge it could be replaced for less cost than a new or rebuilt engine on an ICE car, The ICE in the Volt is generally rarely used and many volts go a year or more before they need the oil changed.

In the future we will tell our kids and grandkids about the time when we burned dinosaur oil to drive cars we had to control with our own hands and feet, They will be shocked about the crudeness of driving your own car.

Only us old timers will drive our archaic and crude vehicles while automated aerodynamic boxes pass us by with the "driver" glued to their holopod or whatever device they will use and some high class individuals will pass them overhead in high flying Mercedes and BMW flying cars :P They will laugh at us for driving our old BMW's and lament about the fact that BMW's made inferior ground vehicles you had to *gasp* drive yourself!

[RL18]

I wonder if people realize where most electricity comes from... make every vehicle electric and now the demand increases for electricity... and if I'm not mistaken the US is already having a hard time keeping up with demand. Which means more electricity plants. I just don't seen an improvement.. someone enlighten me if I'm wrong

[robnitro]

Yep, even though conventional plants are more efficient than ice engines, there is more efficiency loss.

The transmission and distribution add losses.
Charging itself adds losses too, that's why batteries heat up when being charged.

It's just shifting pollution into the areas where power plants are. Nuclear is not a good option because as we have seen Fukushima is a disaster that still is going on.

The only electric that helps are hybrid systems that capture braking energy and help acceleration without needing a bigger engine or more boost (which on a Gasser, kills efficiency due to needing a rich mixture to prevent detonation)

[awenthol]

If you want more diesels, get people to buy them. Economics isnt rocket science. Like it or hate it, Americans think they need trucks and SUVs and this is what happens....

As for the GM comments? I work for a tier 1 and we're actively working with GM on 2023 and 2024 engines.... Don't know where the false info is coming from?

[RL18]

Originally Posted by awenthol

If you want more diesels, get people to buy them. Economics isnt rocket science. Like it or hate it, Americans think they need trucks and SUVs and this is what happens....

As for the GM comments? I work for a tier 1 and we're actively working with GM on 2023 and 2024 engines.... Don't know where the false info is coming from?

Economics? You really think that all these companies aren't marketing their products good enough? Pretty sure BMW would love to sell us their diesels. I mean they just came out with a friggen quad turbo i-6 diesel and VW came out with a 4.0 v8 with twin turbo and electric turbo that their selling in Europe. The technology keeps getting better and better, and more and more efficient but no American is ever going to catch on because they're too ignorant to do the research themself and instead just believe that the epa is telling them the full truth.

[PaKii94]

Originally Posted by RL18

I wonder if people realize where most electricity comes from... make every vehicle electric and now the demand increases for electricity... and if I'm not mistaken the US is already having a hard time keeping up with demand. Which means more electricity plants. I just don't seen an improvement.. someone enlighten me if I'm wrong

Well the theory is then you can have local electricity production through solar/wind/water to offset the increased electrical requirements but we are a ways from that (It's coming though!)

[robnitro]

Originally Posted by PaKii94

Well the theory is then you can have local electricity production through solar/wind/water to offset the increased electrical requirements but we are a ways from that (It's coming though!)

I worked at a utility years ago in a green friendly state that had to source solar and wind.
There are a few issues that I learned about with using solar and wind on the grid.

The grid has no real storage, so power being used NOW has to be made NOW.
To prevent a brownout, the utility has to cover their solar and wind supply with either spinning reserve or peaker power.

Spinning reserve is like idling your car, ready to drive- wasting fuel. In combined cycle plants, it also kills efficiency because idling doesn't heat up the recovery system which needs a lot of heat to run a steam turbine.

Peaker power plants are more inefficient than conventional and combined cycle plants. Those are designed to start and be online in a very short amount of time.

Unfortunately, we still don't have the energy storage technology that is in the scale of how much power would be needed to handle a spike down of solar/wind supplies for more than a few minutes. They have tested huge trailers full of lithium (expensive!) batteries much like a huge version of tesla's powerwall and they just use them for very short term spikes in load.

Green energy is not so green in how the grid runs. It's also not very green in the tons of rare materials needed for it's manufacture (which are energy intensive to mine and refine).

[DougNBodie]

I never thought about buying a car that can do 155 mph and got 36 mpg on the freeway until I heard about the 335d and that was in 2011. So No, I don't think BMW did enough to advertise their D's. To this day, I still run into people all the time that are shocked that my car is a diesel. It's a shame.

[PaKii94]

Originally Posted by robnitro

I worked at a utility years ago in a green friendly state that had to source solar and wind.
There are a few issues that I learned about with using solar and wind on the grid.

The grid has no real storage, so power being used NOW has to be made NOW.
To prevent a brownout, the utility has to cover their solar and wind supply with either spinning reserve or peaker power.

Spinning reserve is like idling your car, ready to drive- wasting fuel. In combined cycle plants, it also kills efficiency because idling doesn't heat up the recovery system which needs a lot of heat to run a steam turbine.

Peaker power plants are more inefficient than conventional and combined cycle plants. Those are designed to start and be online in a very short amount of time.

Unfortunately, we still don't have the energy storage technology that is in the scale of how much power would be needed to handle a spike down of solar/wind supplies for more than a few minutes. They have tested huge trailers full of lithium (expensive!) batteries much like a huge version of tesla's powerwall and they just use them for very short term spikes in load.

Green energy is not so green in how the grid runs. It's also not very green in the tons of rare materials needed for it's manufacture (which are energy intensive to mine and refine).

That's why I said we are a ways away. Tesla is trying to fix this issue with the powerwall (and other companies too)
. Anyway, the 'grid' you are referring to is now outdated infrastructure. (The same thing could be said for the tech in most industries). It obviously wasn't built with renewable energy as a source in mind.

With a new infrastructure in place, green energy can be a thing. See here: https://electrek.co/2018/01/23/tesla...lia-1-million/

but obviously that comes at a cost/discomfort during the overhaul.


But best believe 'green' energy is here to stay and will continue to expand. It's interesting you mention the consumption of rare earth resources because I just read an article about the reduction in that too lol : https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/24/...pe-wind-power/

Beauty of technology...it always keeps advancing

[PaKii94]

Originally Posted by DougNBodie

I never thought about buying a car that can do 155 mph and got 36 mpg on the freeway until I heard about the 335d and that was in 2011. So No, I don't think BMW did enough to advertise their D's. To this day, I still run into people all the time that are shocked that my car is a diesel. It's a shame.

Yeah I knew it was the car for me immediately when I learned about it. It's a shame it didn't come in the convertible version that would be the full dream

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by PaKii94

That's why I said we are a ways away. Tesla is trying to fix this issue with the powerwall (and other companies too)
. Anyway, the 'grid' you are referring to is now outdated infrastructure. (The same thing could be said for the tech in most industries). It obviously wasn't built with renewable energy as a source in mind.

With a new infrastructure in place, green energy can be a thing. See here: https://electrek.co/2018/01/23/tesla...lia-1-million/

but obviously that comes at a cost/discomfort during the overhaul.


But best believe 'green' energy is here to stay and will continue to expand. It's interesting you mention the consumption of rare earth resources because I just read an article about the reduction in that too lol : https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/24/...pe-wind-power/

Beauty of technology...it always keeps advancing

The beauty of green energy is it always promotes the idea that something can be invented in the future to make it economically viable. Or we can tax existing technology to make green tech into viability.... by making the economical option less viable we can force people. Forcing people isn’t as effective as giving them a cheaper better option. Cheaper energy helps everyone... including the cost of externalities

The reality continues to be that a small amount of electricity in the form of refrigeration, lighting and clean water makes a tremendous difference in the quality of life for people. But giving everyone electricity and handling our exploding global population of 10 trillion in the next 20 years. We need 3x the electricity we generate now, and that can’t be done even mostly with renewables. Nuclear is the only existing technology option for generating hugh quantities of energy without climate change on the massive scale we need in the near future.

Building solar and wind is also building natural gas plants to provide on demand energy when the renewables fail. So the reality is every bit of renewable we add is also building tons of carbon generating natural gas plants. Plus the tremendous amount of land being consumed currently for renewables. Seems like an unsustainable strategy.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by DougNBodie

I never thought about buying a car that can do 155 mph and got 36 mpg on the freeway until I heard about the 335d and that was in 2011. So No, I don't think BMW did enough to advertise their D's. To this day, I still run into people all the time that are shocked that my car is a diesel. It's a shame.

When I bought mine in 2013, I had no idea it existed. Went to the dealership to look at a 335i and saw the 335d, I was like WTF is that. Looked it up on my phone right there in the parking lot. Walked inside and said I want that one.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by PaKii94

That's why I said we are a ways away. Tesla is trying to fix this issue with the powerwall (and other companies too)

It's not that far away. The problem is getting the short distance from here to there. Our local utility co-op recently installed a huge Tesla battery farm nearby and also has the biggest solar farm in the state (so far) 10 miles west of that. But they are losing money to solar with both residential and commercial build-outs over the past few years. So now we are being charged a demand rate pricing scheme rate increase to compensate. It's a hefty hike. The grid is overflowing with solar power during the day along with overall less demand 24x7. Dumb.

The storage infrastructure will probably end up being about 10 years behind the rest of the grid updates, with guess who (?) footing the bill for shortsighted management..

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by DozerDan82

When I bought mine in 2013, I had no idea it existed. Went to the dealership to look at a 335i and saw the 335d, I was like WTF is that. Looked it up on my phone right there in the parking lot. Walked inside and said I want that one.

I ordered mine; bought it right out of the factory. Never drove a demo.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

It's not that far away. The problem is getting the short distance from here to there. Our local utility co-op recently installed a huge Tesla battery farm nearby and also has the biggest solar farm in the state (so far) 10 miles west of that. But they are losing money to solar with both residential and commercial build-outs over the past few years. So now we are being charged a demand rate pricing scheme rate increase to compensate. It's a hefty hike. The grid is overflowing with solar power during the day along with overall less demand 24x7. Dumb.

The storage infrastructure will probably end up being about 10 years behind the rest of the grid updates, with guess who (?) footing the bill for shortsighted management..

Given battery tech hasn't improved in 50 years (lithium batteries were invented in the 70's), and isn't likely to. These battery grid experiments are interesting, but economically not viable. Also they are extremely questionable that they reduce carbon emissions.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018...uce-emissions/


If you actually run the numbers on batteries you quickly arrive at they are nonsensical for large scale energy storage. Have you ever priced the cost of Lithium ION batteries? A $1500 200ah 12V lithium battery has less energy storage capacity than a gallon gas can..... which I can get for $5 and fill it for $2.00..... (the battery wears out my gas can wont). One gallon of gas has 115,000 BTU of energy a $1500 lithium ion battery has 6300 BTU of energy (about 2000watts). The energy density of hydrocarbons is orders of magnitude better. Heck even firewood has more energy density than a battery.

Solar isn't economically viable either, I've run the numbers for my own home and can't even break even on them based on electrical savings and no repairs in 25 years which is the panels expected life time. Solar panels haven't made any real progress in efficiency in 50 years as well. Cost has gotten better, but the reality is there is no big price drop in the future.

I'm not suggesting we do nothing about climate change, but the issue is we really haven't come up with a way to convert transportation to batteries, except in limited use cars, ships, aircraft, etc. will likely never be electric, too little energy density in batteries.