[blakjack23]

Yes, after I was done with the SIP and 106 I still noticed some light swirls. But I thought thats what people were saying....that 106 leaves minor swirls still ??? Or was it that I just didn't use the SIP good enough to get all the swirls out at first? Unfortunately I don't have halogen lights and I was polishing in my garage so I really couldn't check my work as I was going. Next purchase, halogen lights!

[JOYRIIDE1113]

Originally Posted by blakjack23

Yes, after I was done with the SIP and 106 I still noticed some light swirls. But I thought thats what people were saying....that 106 leaves minor swirls still ??? Or was it that I just didn't use the SIP good enough to get all the swirls out at first? Unfortunately I don't have halogen lights and I was polishing in my garage so I really couldn't check my work as I was going. Next purchase, halogen lights!

I just mention it because there is a differenc ebetween swirls left behind from unremoved defects and swirls left behind from hologramming caused by a rotory buffer.

I think everyone's responses were a little skewed.

[picus]

Originally Posted by blakjack23

Yes, after I was done with the SIP and 106 I still noticed some light swirls. But I thought thats what people were saying....that 106 leaves minor swirls still ??? Or was it that I just didn't use the SIP good enough to get all the swirls out at first? Unfortunately I don't have halogen lights and I was polishing in my garage so I really couldn't check my work as I was going. Next purchase, halogen lights!

It depends on the paint. You asked earlier if you could go from SIP to 106. The answer is no one here knows until they try it on that car, and there are a ton of variables. For example, how was SIP applied? High speed, low speed? Soft paint, hard paint?

Same goes with 106ff in general. Can it leave holograms? Absolutely, on soft paint with an orange pad or even a white at high speeds it can leave holograms. For the most part it won't when used correctly, but it can.

Now to get more specific. You have a black BMW which generally have very soft paint. If used correctly SIP on an orange pad should remove 99% of your marring (assuming its not super deep), but it will leave significant holograming behind. SIP is good, but JB BMWs + orange pads = holograms no matter how good you or the compound is. 106ff is probably not enough to remove that hologramming, it just doesn't have the bite. Next time try SIP/orange then SIP/white *then* 106ff/white. The middle SIP step will remove the bulk of the holograms, and 106ff will clean up what it leaves behind.

[picus]

Originally Posted by DavidN

Another thing to take into consideration is that 106 was designed to be used in the factory on paint that has not fully cured. This is one reason why I do NOT use it or any of those types of Menzerna products on my paint. I'm not saying they are bad, or do not work well with proper care, however, they were not made with cured paint in mind. Final polish is probably a safer choice for most users, and it will involve less guesswork.

Question about this; I've not read this before. I know 106/SIP/8rd etc were made for cerami-clear paint, but I haven't read about them being made specifically for uncured paint. I like FP and FPII as well, I tend to use FPII more than 106. That said, SIP has all but removed IP from my arsenal.

Anyway, I've just never heard that, do you have more info on it?

[Chris J]

Originally Posted by picus

Question about this; I've not read this before. I know 106/SIP/8rd etc were made for cerami-clear paint, but I haven't read about them being made specifically for uncured paint. I like FP and FPII as well, I tend to use FPII more than 106. That said, SIP has all but removed IP from my arsenal.

Anyway, I've just never heard that, do you have more info on it?

I think it says this on autogeek.net that new menzerna line (including SIP and 106 were originally manufactured for mercedes in 2003 for Ceramiclear but specifically to be used on their assembly lines. So the paint at that time probably was not fully cured and was nice and soft for those spoiled guys who are probably working in a big air conditioned environment where swirl marks are just a rumor that flies around on lunch break conversations. Im not jealous really.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Originally Posted by picus

Question about this; I've not read this before. I know 106/SIP/8rd etc were made for cerami-clear paint, but I haven't read about them being made specifically for uncured paint. I like FP and FPII as well, I tend to use FPII more than 106. That said, SIP has all but removed IP from my arsenal.

Anyway, I've just never heard that, do you have more info on it?

Hi Kevin;

Here is the link to properautocare where I read this. They were the first ones to introduce this polish to North America. On Autogeek's site, they make no specific mention that this polish was designed for uncured paint, first and foremost. They do make vague references to the polish being "used at the factory". Scroll down to the bottom of the properautocare page to see the following that I've also quoted here:

http://www.properautocare.com/pofornececlc.html

Additional Update February, 2006: This PO106FF Polish is Menzerna's OEM, Nano, Ceramic Polish. It was developed for use on the assembly line on fresh paint. Menzerna has customized this polish for Classic Motoring Accessories for better use by the enthusiast on cured paints. This nano, ceramic finishing polish and a nano, ceramic compound are offered by Classic Motoring Accessories, under license from Menzerna, as BLACKFIRE Scratch Resistant Clear Finishing Polish and BLACKFIRE Scratch Resistant Clear Compound Both are available in economical 16 oz. sizes.

I'll also add, I'm not sure if SIP, or the other cermiclear polishes, are recommended for use on fresh paint. But I know that 106 (and 85rd) was/is made for fresh paint.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Originally Posted by blakjack23

You can't go from SIP to Final Polish correct? Too big of a gap?

Like some other posters have said, it all depends on paint, pads, machine used, speed, etc. I don't use cermiclear polishes on my conventional clearcoat anyway. I try to eliminate as much guesswork and potential problems as possible by sticking with conventional polishes on my conventional clear coat. With that said, I have never had an issue going from IP to FP2.

[picus]

Originally Posted by DavidN

Hi Kevin;

Here is the link to properautocare where I read this. They were the first ones to introduce this polish to North America. On Autogeek's site, they make no specific mention that this polish was designed for uncured paint, first and foremost. They do make vague references to the polish being "used at the factory". Scroll down to the bottom of the properautocare page to see the following that I've also quoted here:

http://www.properautocare.com/pofornececlc.html



I'll also add, I'm not sure if SIP, or the other cermiclear polishes, are recommended for use on fresh paint. But I know that 106 (and 85rd) was/is made for fresh paint.

Cool, thanks for the info. I'd never read that even on some of the detailing forums. Good to know.

[Chris J]

Ok so I did a car today and decided to give 106ff a try again. I used s.i.p. with a sonus white pad and then finished with 106ff with a sonus blue pad (finishing). The s.i.p. removed almost all the scratches instantly but when I pulled the car in the sun to check it after s.i.p. I found that it was very swirled even though I was only going at 1400 rpms and keeping my movements smooth. So i started polishing it with 106ff to remove the swirls and complete the polishing. I tested the hood first with 106ff then wiped it down and pulled the car into the sun. Still swirled! Pulled it back in did the hood one more time and checked it again. Swirls gone. I know I must be doing something wrong but I can figure out what it is. Im not dry buffing. Im not moving too slow. Im not moving too fast. Im not putting excessive pressure. Im not working to product for too long until its dry. So if anyone has any ideas on what I might be doing wrong please let me know cause I could have swore this stuff swears it will take out swirls and for me its just not!

[picus]

What you're doing wrong is the same thing you were doing wrong before; expecting 106ff to do more than it's designed to do. Check it out; you're putting in holograms with SIP on soft black paint...pretty significant ones probably. You're then using a finishing polish on a finishing pad to clean them up; it's not going to work, at least not well. What you need to do is figure out an intermediate step.

So, if your using SIP on Sonus White my next step would be 106ff on the same Sonus white pad, then 106ff on the blue pad. You could also try SIP/white, SIP/blue, 106ff/blue. My point is, on soft black paint 106ff may not have the balls to remove the halogramming from SIP on a cutting/polishing pad without a middle step to knock the holograms down a bit.

[Detailed Image]

Chris, I said this in the Ask a Pro Detailer thread, but it'd be very helpful if you can take a picture of what you're describing as the swirls. I'm still confused if your referring to surface swirls, micro-marring, hologramming, RIDS, etc.

George

[Chris J]

Originally Posted by picus

What you're doing wrong is the same thing you were doing wrong before; expecting 106ff to do more than it's designed to do. Check it out; you're putting in holograms with SIP on soft black paint...pretty significant ones probably. You're then using a finishing polish on a finishing pad to clean them up; it's not going to work, at least not well. What you need to do is figure out an intermediate step.

So, if your using SIP on Sonus White my next step would be 106ff on the same Sonus white pad, then 106ff on the blue pad. You could also try SIP/white, SIP/blue, 106ff/blue. My point is, on soft black paint 106ff may not have the balls to remove the halogramming from SIP on a cutting/polishing pad without a middle step to knock the holograms down a bit.

Thanks picus. the only problem is the entire car is not marred or swirled its on certain parts. It was a newer porsche boxter (black). When i checked the hood it was still swirled so i did it again. on the rest of the car I gave the polish plenty of time to work and did not buff it until it was completely dry. I just hate to think how long that would take to actually have to put it through another polishing step. Is this what normally has to be done? Ive seen a lot of people on the forum just use s.i.p then go straight to 106 using only two polishing steps. On BMW and other cars as well. thats why i didnt know if there was something i was doing wrong. I want to figure out this problem quick cause it really bothers me. What are some things i might be doing wrong with 106 that would introduce new marring or swirls to the paint?

[elite3]

After reading, paint depth gauge, they are so important terms of cutting and buffing is exactly that when trying to correct defects, either above the surface defect or below the surface defect you are removing microns of clearcoat proper lighting is so important,