[Luke_Enderle]

I'm just wondering has anyone done the BSW Stage 1 sound upgrade for e90's? If so what'd you think? I've heard good things about it but am just not sure yet. Also I'm not sure if I would do just the Stage 1 sound upgrade or that plus the BSW Subwoofer for the trunk. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[ctuna]

Its not a complete solution
And the results will differ depending on which of the three
BMW systems you start out with.
Its basically just a speaker upgrade.
They have been promising and amp for years now but it never arrives.
Some have used there speakers in combination with aftermarket amps.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=amplifiers

You need to read this if you want to do a quality install

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

Also try doing a search = BSW
most aren't using BSW's here.

If you want a system that will make a difference and
a large one MusicarNW makes kits that are complete and use high
quality components.
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
Also FYI

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://www.bawarec.ru/manuals/3er/e9...3er-e90-12.pdf
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by Luke_Enderle

I'm just wondering has anyone done the BSW Stage 1 sound upgrade for e90's? If so what'd you think? I've heard good things about it but am just not sure yet. Also I'm not sure if I would do just the Stage 1 sound upgrade or that plus the BSW Subwoofer for the trunk. Any suggestions? Thanks!

I have the full Stage 1 kit along with the BSW Subwoofer and I love them. Mind you I'm not a audiophile or a car audio junkie.

I upgraded my Logic7 speaker system with the Stage 1 kit and it made a huge difference in the sound quality to me. Along with the subwoofer in the trunk it made a very well rounded sounding system for all the types of music I listen to.

My understanding is that if you are upgrading from a base stereo, the difference isn't as noticeable adding the Stage 1 kit without adding an after market amp. But upgrading the speakers from an L7 system makes a huge difference.

[kaigoss69]

IMO, here are the flaws of the BSW approach:

- Speakers are NOT made for aftermarket amplification
- No underseat replacements
- They sell you replacements for ALL speakers in the car, whereas you really only need the fronts to be changed
- no correction of OEM signal

[bmw325i]

They are overpriced for what you get. The Jehnert flatline kit is a better deal.

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

IMO, here are the flaws of the BSW approach:

- Speakers are NOT made for aftermarket amplification
- No underseat replacements
- They sell you replacements for ALL speakers in the car, whereas you really only need the fronts to be changed
- no correction of OEM signal

There is nothing wrong with changing the rear OEM speakers
In fact if you change the front speakers with good aftermarket ones, then amp the front speakers, the rear ones, still connected to the head unit, will really sound like crap at high enough volume. At least on non Logic7 cars.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

There is nothing wrong with changing the rear OEM speakers
In fact if you change the front speakers with good aftermarket ones, then amp the front speakers, the rear ones, still connected to the head unit, will really sound like crap at high enough volume. At least on non Logic7 cars.

Depends on what your preference is. Some of us don't use rear speakers at all. It also depends on the budget. IMO front speakers should always be the priority and if the budget allows upgrade the rears.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

There is nothing wrong with changing the rear OEM speakers
In fact if you change the front speakers with good aftermarket ones, then amp the front speakers, the rear ones, still connected to the head unit, will really sound like crap at high enough volume. At least on non Logic7 cars.

Fooljam, you are aware that the HU has a FADER, right?

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Fooljam, you are aware that the HU has a FADER, right?

Jeeezzz dude

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

Depends on what your preference is. Some of us don't use rear speakers at all. It also depends on the budget. IMO front speakers should always be the priority and if the budget allows upgrade the rears.

Yeah I got that from reading some posts here, but to me focusing on the front speakers only is a mistake and adding simple 1 way or two ways on the back is not going to break the bank.
A good surround system with rear channels makes a big difference. Especially on tunes that have been made to produce sounds/instruments on different channels. This Front stage thingy is largely overrated.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

Yeah I got that from reading some posts here, but to me focusing on the front speakers only is a mistake and adding simple 1 way or two ways on the back is not going to break the bank.
A good surround system with rear channels makes a big difference. Especially on tunes that have been made to produce sounds/instruments on different channels. This Front stage thingy is largely overrated.

I agree that adding a cheap set of rear speakers isn't a bad idea. You shouldn't take away from the budget for the front speakers to upgrade the rear speakers though.

I finally disconnected my rear speakers a few weeks ago, and I do think it sounds better.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by Fooljam

Yeah I got that from reading some posts here, but to me focusing on the front speakers only is a mistake and adding simple 1 way or two ways on the back is not going to break the bank.
A good surround system with rear channels makes a big difference. Especially on tunes that have been made to produce sounds/instruments on different channels. This Front stage thingy is largely overrated.

I don't mean to be confrontational, but what you're saying is just not correct. 2-channel music, as interpreted by a 2-channel source unit (like our base and HiFi audio head units) contains ONLY left and right channel info, and there is absolutely no capability whatsoever to produce "surround sound" effects through the rear speakers. The rears simply play exactly the same info as the fronts. The only way to incorporate surround sound is through the addition of a sound processor with surround sound encoding, like Dolby or Logic 7. Even with such a processor installed, the ambient sounds from the rears that create the surround effect, do by no means require the installation of expensive aftermarket speakers, they can be easily handled by most OEM speakers. One could make an argument that there could be a slight difference between the base rear speakers and aftermarket ones, but I think it would be extremely difficult to hear the difference.

IMO, the only scenario where the rear speakers need to be upgraded is when people like to have that "full car" car sound, where the music basically comes from everywhere. I think this may be popular amongst people who like techno and electronic music, where the music was recorded without a clear front stage. Some few others like the music coming from behind them - they are the ones you can easily identify at a concert, because they are standing with their backs to the stage, LOL.

For the majority of people though, what is important is that the car audio system is able to produce a good front stage, with proper imaging and staging, to hear the music like it was intended to be heard. In such cases the rear speakers are unimportant, and often redundant.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Some few others like the music coming from behind them - they are the ones you can easily identify at a concert, because they are standing with their backs to the stage, LOL.

Not sure if serious

[OC40]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I don't mean to be confrontational, but what you're saying is just not correct. 2-channel music, as interpreted by a 2-channel source unit (like our base and HiFi audio head units) contains ONLY left and right channel info, and there is absolutely no capability whatsoever to produce "surround sound" effects through the rear speakers. The rears simply play exactly the same info as the fronts. The only way to incorporate surround sound is through the addition of a sound processor with surround sound encoding, like Dolby or Logic 7. Even with such a processor installed, the ambient sounds from the rears that create the surround effect, do by no means require the installation of expensive aftermarket speakers, they can be easily handled by most OEM speakers. One could make an argument that there could be a slight difference between the base rear speakers and aftermarket ones, but I think it would be extremely difficult to hear the difference.

IMO, the only scenario where the rear speakers need to be upgraded is when people like to have that "full car" car sound, where the music basically comes from everywhere. I think this may be popular amongst people who like techno and electronic music, where the music was recorded without a clear front stage. Some few others like the music coming from behind them - they are the ones you can easily identify at a concert, because they are standing with their backs to the stage, LOL.

For the majority of people though, what is important is that the car audio system is able to produce a good front stage, with proper imaging and staging, to hear the music like it was intended to be heard. In such cases the rear speakers are unimportant, and often redundant.

+1 on the "full car" sound for electronic (thank you for not writing EDM).

Matter of fact, I spoke to musicarnw about an F30 speaker update last week. Ken mentioned a rear speaker delete until I stated that I listen to 60%-70% electronic, 20%-30% hip hop and 10% classical. He stated that I should maintain the rears given the percentage of electronic that I listen to (which makes sense).

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I don't mean to be confrontational, but what you're saying is just not correct. 2-channel music, as interpreted by a 2-channel source unit (like our base and HiFi audio head units) contains ONLY left and right channel info, and there is absolutely no capability whatsoever to produce "surround sound" effects through the rear speakers. The rears simply play exactly the same info as the fronts. The only way to incorporate surround sound is through the addition of a sound processor with surround sound encoding, like Dolby or Logic 7. Even with such a processor installed, the ambient sounds from the rears that create the surround effect, do by no means require the installation of expensive aftermarket speakers, they can be easily handled by most OEM speakers. One could make an argument that there could be a slight difference between the base rear speakers and aftermarket ones, but I think it would be extremely difficult to hear the difference.

IMO, the only scenario where the rear speakers need to be upgraded is when people like to have that "full car" car sound, where the music basically comes from everywhere. I think this may be popular amongst people who like techno and electronic music, where the music was recorded without a clear front stage. Some few others like the music coming from behind them - they are the ones you can easily identify at a concert, because they are standing with their backs to the stage, LOL.

For the majority of people though, what is important is that the car audio system is able to produce a good front stage, with proper imaging and staging, to hear the music like it was intended to be heard. In such cases the rear speakers are unimportant, and often redundant.

Yes sure the surround is provided by a processor
What I meant is that if you play a tune that has multi channel support you will be able to hear the difference from having rear speakers.
It is quiet nice to hear some instruments coming from the rear or the front only, while the opposite channels are playing other instruments. As opposed to all the speakers playing the same altogether.
I think this make a real difference in the imaging.

If you play for example tunes from Jean Michel Jarre you will hear what I am talking about, if you have not already.
JMJ uses extensively multi channels to play different tones/instruments on different channels.

Personally my rear speakers are playing as loud as my front ones in my own car. It is just a preference. But I think the music experience with this kind of set up is just more complete.
Personally instead of deleting the rear speakers in a E9x/E6x, I would rather delete underseat sub woofers or up the crossover on these so they no longer play very lows, and focus the bass from the back (trunk).
Having the lows coming from behind you changes everything, as opposed from having everything playing in your face as it was designed in the recent BMW.
But yet again, this just a personal preference. One might disagree with me.

[bmw325i]

IMO getting rid of the underseats is a bad idea. You are moving your mid bass from up front to the trunk. Bass is different because its harder to tell where the lower frequencies are coming from and you'll get some cabin gain from having your subs in the trunk.

[Fooljam]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

IMO getting rid of the underseats is a bad idea. You are moving your mid bass from up front to the trunk. Bass is different because its harder to tell where the lower frequencies are coming from and you'll get some cabin gain from having your subs in the trunk.

Try if you have the opportunity. It is not bad, it is different. As I said it is a preference.
You might be pleasantly surprised.

[bmw325i]

A subwoofer isn't designed to play midbass. Anything over 60-80hz starts to sound weird coming from the sub.

[ctuna]

Deleting the under seats is a big mistake
Others have tried this or gone to installers that do this
and have come crying here for help.
The under seats provide a large portion of the sound spectrum that
people can actually hear . And since they are located in the cabin
makes a big difference.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771

[kaigoss69]

Oh man, just when I thought it was not possible to dish out any more bad advice...

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Oh man, just when I thought it was not possible to dish out any more bad advice...

be nice now. lol

[BRGmatthew]

I have the full stage 1 kit plus the trunk sub and I love the sound. I also replaced my underseat subs with kickers ssmb8 midbass and added a jl xd600/6 amplifier to my car using technic's harness for both the midbass and amp. I was able to fit the kickers with jtsherri's bracket. As for quality, it is amazing compared to stock, sure it isnt up to pay agains musicarNW kit but for the price its definitely worth it IMO. I am however deciding on swapping my trunk sub to musicarNW side mount sub.