[Spooly]

Originally Posted by Vulcan50

I'd lean towards a factory defect type situation. At $5k for a brake kit Brembo is (should be) choosey. The brembo stickers are one thing but the casting marks...seems like even overseas there would be some legal issues. Like maybe they are supposed to be grinding them off (like the M/// on TRW suspension components) but aren't.

The casting marks originally threw me off as well, but then I thought more about it and realized these monoblock calipers are CNC machined, adding the markings is trivial. There are probably more unscrupulous people selling these as legitimate brembo products and then it makes sense to have all the proper markings.

[Emilime75]

I mean, the intent is to make them look legit, so why would they not include genuine looking markings?

And if you dig a bit and see just how many various "name brands" are available and the car/model selection, it's really hard to believe these high end companies would have so many QC rejects. Then add in the fitment issues with the adapters... I'd love to be proven wrong, I'd buy some right away.

[Torgus]

I can't believe it is hard to knock off a caliper/bbk: Cast it, machine it, paint it. Now will the casting metallurgy and quality be up to par with BB/AP/ST? Very Doubtful. How about the slides, pistons, seals, friction disks, lines, bleeders, etc? VERY unlikely.

No way is any BBK manufacturer allowing the QC rejects to be sold on alibaba with them knowing about it. There is also no reason why they would put up with this. As said above they have a BBk for basically every car out there. Do you really think they customized every caliper so the piston sizes are correct so your brake bias and ABS are going to work correctly?

The chance they are the knock offs are the same and OEM BBK is about 5%

Do you wear knock off jordans and a folex? If so a knock off BBK might be for you!

I would love to know what an insurance company would do if they could determine the caliper/bbk caused the accident? They are notorious for trying to get out of paying $$$.

[Spooly]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I can't believe it is hard to knock off a caliper/bbk: Cast it, machine it, paint it. Now will the casting metallurgy and quality be up to par with BB/AP/ST? Very Doubtful. How about the slides, pistons, seals, friction disks, lines, bleeders, etc? VERY unlikely.

No way is any BBK manufacturer allowing the QC rejects to be sold on alibaba with them knowing about it. There is also no reason why they would put up with this. As said above they have a BBk for basically every car out there. Do you really think they customized every caliper so the piston sizes are correct so your brake bias and ABS are going to work correctly?

The chance they are the knock offs are the same and OEM BBK is about 5%

Do you wear knock off jordans and a folex? If so a knock off BBK might be for you!

I would love to know what an insurance company would do if they could determine the caliper/bbk caused the accident? They are notorious for trying to get out of paying $$$.

Yeah I agree they probably aren't real calipers.

And no personally I would not wear a fake rolex or fake jordans (or real ones for that matter), but I also wouldn't look down on those who would. You think a real pair of Jordans makes someone a better basketball player? A more valuable member of society?

With regards to insurance, I really don't think that'd be a problem, if so people running power stop calipers would be in real trouble. Guess where those are made? :O
You think insurance would be more likely to payout if you had an engine fire because your turbo is made by precision and not some eBay special? Get real.

Its fine if you want to spend the extra money on name brand parts/items, but you don't have to hate on people who don't or can't. Sure these calipers probably aren't going to perform the same as a real Brembo kit, and I don't think any of us expect them to. In this life you get what you pay for. But if I get 7/10ths the performance improvement for < 1/3rd the price I can live with that. I think the risk of a sudden complete brake failure is small enough, and enough people have tested them that I feel comfortable in thinking that. But we'll see. At least I'll still have the stock rears.

[Emilime75]

I think you're taking what he said a little too seriously. But...

1. Why does it matter where something is made?
2. How did you conclude you're going to get a 7/10 performance improvement for 1/3 the price?
3. Who's actually tested these?

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

Yeah I agree they probably aren't real calipers.

And no personally I would not wear a fake rolex or fake jordans (or real ones for that matter), but I also wouldn't look down on those who would. You think a real pair of Jordans makes someone a better basketball player? A more valuable member of society?

With regards to insurance, I really don't think that'd be a problem, if so people running power stop calipers would be in real trouble. Guess where those are made? :O
You think insurance would be more likely to payout if you had an engine fire because your turbo is made by precision and not some eBay special? Get real.

Its fine if you want to spend the extra money on name brand parts/items, but you don't have to hate on people who don't or can't. Sure these calipers probably aren't going to perform the same as a real Brembo kit, and I don't think any of us expect them to. In this life you get what you pay for. But if I get 7/10ths the performance improvement for < 1/3rd the price I can live with that. I think the risk of a sudden complete brake failure is small enough, and enough people have tested them that I feel comfortable in thinking that. But we'll see. At least I'll still have the stock rears.

Enough people being one guy on youtube and two on this thread who've bought and not installed them yet?

I agree with what you're saying on insurance, though. If they want to blame something they're gonna say "aftermarket parts" and it won't matter if it's a BBK that was $700 or $8k.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

Yeah I agree they probably aren't real calipers.

Me too.

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

but I also wouldn't look down on those who would. You think a real pair of Jordans makes someone a better basketball player? A more valuable member of society?

I look down on fake people in general. Fake friends, fake money aka people who act like they have money but don't. They want to act like someone they are not. Buying knock offs for a fraction of the price yay! Instagram wanna be influencers who rent our an air plane set as an example. Fake chains, diamonds, gold, you name it. Does not impress me and makes me think less of you. To quote Catcher in the Rye "They are Phony" AF.

As far as a valuable member of society? I guess the person who artificially projects wealth when they have little to none would be less valuable? I would rather a trust worthy and honest person?

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

But if I get 7/10ths the performance improvement for < 1/3rd the price I can live with that...enough people have tested them that I feel comfortable in thinking that.

The stock brakes are more than enough for the street. Even on the track an aggressive pad and good fluid will get you very far. The only reason to buy a knock off BBK is for looks, not performance.

The only way to test a BBK is on a track, not the street. It really is not about more stopping power so much as reliability, repeatability, and thermally lasting longer than stock.

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

At least I'll still have the stock rears.

Are you not concerned about the brake bias or ABS being affected in a negative way? At least get both F&R and hope they designed it right(They didn't mind you)? A bigger front caliper and larger(and more) pistons does not mean you will stop faster or it will work correctly. Ideally you need both sized correctly.

I already posted this in this thread I think you might find the following a worth while read: https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedia...s-8-2018_1.pdf

"The Potential Impacts of “Big Brakes”
Let's now take the exact same scenario but add a twist: you are returning home from having
that long-sought-after big brake kit installed. You know, the one that required new 18" wheels
to clear the 8-piston calipers and 16" rotors. Driving around the parking lot you couldn't believe
the improvement in pedal feel and initial bite they displayed. These things must really throw a
boat anchor behind the car at high speeds, right?

Well, Let’s See Resisting the temptation to run in the fast lane at triple-digit speeds, you once again find
yourself behind the spring water truck at 75 MPH. Barrels fly and you again lay on the brakes,
but with the increased confidence of your new hardware to slow you down in time. Plus, you
now know how the ABS works, so you lay into the pedal, confident that you will have both
deceleration and steerability. It couldn't get any better.
Like scenario 1, after the initial 50, 100, and 150 milliseconds the ABS takes snapshots of the
wheel speed information and registers 0.91g's, 1.36g's, and 4.1g's on the left front wheel. Again
the ABS quickly comes to the conclusion that, unlike the left front wheel at this moment, the
car cannot possibly be decelerating at 4.1g's. Best case is that the car was decelerating at 1.0g
(or thereabouts) over the last 50ms, so the 'real' vehicle speed is still somewhere around 71.5
MPH, even though the left front wheel speed is reading 68 MPH - a 3.5 MPH error. So far, so
good - just like last time.
Here's where things start to get interesting, though. ABS enters "isolation mode" and shuts off
the hydraulic line from the master cylinder to the left front caliper, isolating the driver from
applying more pressure. Next, the ABS starts work in "decrease mode," and once again
calculates that 10ms are required to the excess pressure from the left front caliper in order to
allow the left front wheel to reaccelerate back up to the vehicle's actual speed - 71.5 MPH in
this case. Unfortunately, this calculation was based on the standard vehicle's pressure-torque
characteristics of the left front caliper/pad/rotor assembly. Let's talk about this briefly while the
barrels roll in closer."

Are You Telling Me That Big Brakes Are a Bad Idea?
So, will all big brake upgrades wreak havoc on the chassis control systems found on your
favorite ride? Not necessarily. In fact, if designed and chosen properly, these upgrades can
make the most of these control technologies while providing all of the cooling and thermal
robustness advantages these kits have to offer.
The "secret" to brake system compatibility is that there is no secret - it just requires
fundamental engineering expertise and design know-how.
As mentioned earlier, far too many of the big brake upgrade kits on the market today pay no
attention to the P-T or P-V characteristics that the car originally possessed. In fact, there are kits
available today which have P-T characteristics which more than double the output (P==>2T) of
the stock systems they replace - "200% More Stopping Power" must be better than stock, right?
In most cases, these vendors procure large quantities of big rotors and red calipers, fabricate an
adapter bracket to mount them to a variety of different suspensions, and market the kit as a
'one-size-fits-all' without first determining if the system will be compatible with the remaining
foundation braking system, let alone the electronic chassis controls. Sure, it's quick, costeffective, and looks like a million bucks through your 18" wheels, but what about ultimate
performance?


*hint* that is all Alibaba knock off BBK kits for 1/4 the price of the real thing. Adapter + SS brake line = new BBk for your Scion/BMW/Etc.


I have seen 'real' BBKs for the E9x front and back from as low as 2500 on this specific forum. Most they sell for around 3k or 1/2 price. Once you spend the money on your F&R Ali BBK you are not far from a 'real' BBK which actually will have resale value or add value to your car when you sell it. Or you know allow you to be able to aggressively track it.


Obviously this thread if for people who don't want to spend money on the real thing. At LEAST buy DICKASS Brakes!

[Spooly]

Brakes arrived, definitely cast, no idea why I thought CNC machining was involved. Everything looks quality. Rotor weight 21lbs, aluminum hats. Caliper weight with pads and retaining clip 10.5 lbs.
Came with "12.9 grade" bolts for the adapter to caliper and adapter to OEM bracket. Rotor hat nuts seem properly tightened and locked, "10.9 grade" bolts.
Paint finish is very good, only a few small imperfections, which I imagine even OEM painted calipers would have.
Nothing else in the kit is marked brembo, except for the calipers, which has the logo in quite a few places as shown in the zeroto60 video. The brake bleeder-valve rubber cover, piston seals, top of the piston, brake line plug. Pads are generic and unmarked, same as the rotors and brake lines.

[z3Ro]

saw that 0-60 vid before and was curious. heres the big question. if you were to buy the knockoffs, what happens when you need to replace the rotors and you cant find these on aliexpress anymore gotta buy the real thing in the end anyways...

dont get me wrong its totally tempting but gotta think about the long haul

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by z3Ro

saw that 0-60 vid before and was curious. heres the big question. if you were to buy the knockoffs, what happens when you need to replace the rotors and you cant find these on aliexpress anymore gotta buy the real thing in the end anyways...

dont get me wrong its totally tempting but gotta think about the long haul

True but I'd hazard a guess that the rotor rings are a common size and fitment from brembo or other

[jzx_andy]

If someone could kindly torture test these brakes on the track and settle the debate once and for all, I'd be forever grateful.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by jzx_andy

If someone could kindly torture test these brakes on the track and settle the debate once and for all, I'd be forever grateful.

The thing with this is that you'll have the same issues (QC) we have in the turbos thread. They could be be hit or miss and just because one set makes it through a track day doesn't mean Aliexpress brakes are reliable.

[jzx_andy]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

The thing with this is that you'll have the same issues (QC) we have in the turbos thread. They could be be hit or miss and just because one set makes it through a track day doesn't mean Aliexpress brakes are reliable.

This is true. I think what I said earlier was incorrect and the only way they can be proven is if multiple people grab them and they all turn out to be okay. Hopefully if someone torture tests a set, that might motivate others to grab them. Right now they are too much of an unknown, especially on QC and longevity.

[Spooly]

So far so good. Updated signature.

[Vivek.]

Those ARC-8R's look good, love that finish. Looks nice with the brakes too. Do you track at all?

[thormessiah]

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

So far so good. Updated signature.

Did you have to bleed the brakes at all?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by thormessiah

Did you have to bleed the brakes at all?

You have to bleed the brakes when you replace the calipers...I mean I guess you could clamp the stock rubber lines but that is dumb as it compromises the integrity of the line. You also get new stainless lines I assume with all of these knock off chinese brake kits.

So yes, you need to bleed the brakes. For both safety reasons and necessity. It is not like you want to rely on old brake fluid anyways. Brake flushes are cheap as fuck all things considered.

The arc rims are so great because you can fit a 17 inch rim on a stoptech/brembro BBK. So you have sidewall and a lightweight wheel which you want both of to track or drive aggressively.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Those ARC-8R's look good, love that finish. Looks nice with the brakes too. Do you track at all?

a lot of weights on those ARC-8R. Those are run flat tires I think. So not a track car.

[Spooly]

Originally Posted by feuer

a lot of weights on those ARC-8R. Those are run flat tires I think. So not a track car.

Yeah I agree quite a lot of weights, I think the tire shop got lazy because with the knurled bead on the inside of the wheel it's hard to rotate the tire, so it seems like they just used lots of weights instead. No vibrations though, so at least there's that. The tires are not run-flats, they're regular Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole positions. I haven't tracked the car yet, but I'm planning to. I think I'll probably start with autocross since it's more affordable.

As for bleeding the brakes, of course that had to be done. I used the two person method, will probably do the ISTA+ method too. Pedal feel has definitely changed, softer initial feel, with much greater modularity after some initial travel. Haven't decided if I'll swap to the M3 MC.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

Yeah I agree quite a lot of weights, I think the tire shop got lazy because with the knurled bead on the inside of the wheel it's hard to rotate the tire, so it seems like they just used lots of weights instead. No vibrations though, so at least there's that. The tires are not run-flats, they're regular Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole positions. I haven't tracked the car yet, but I'm planning to. I think I'll probably start with autocross since it's more affordable.

As for bleeding the brakes, of course that had to be done. I used the two person method, will probably do the ISTA+ method too. Pedal feel has definitely changed, softer initial feel, with much greater modularity after some initial travel. Haven't decided if I'll swap to the M3 MC.

Those are street tires at best. If you want Bridgestone try RE-71

[Emilime75]

It's time for front brakes and...I can't believe I'm actually saying this...I am considering these. Probably the 380mm floating discs and Brembo GT6 style calipers.

For those who've taken the plunge and have some miles on them, what's the verdict?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

It's time for front brakes and...I can't believe I'm actually saying this...I am considering these. Probably the 380mm floating discs and Brembo GT6 style calipers.

For those who've taken the plunge and have some miles on them, what's the verdict?

For the love of god do front and rear. A front only bbk looks really out of place and your brake bias will be significantly off.