[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

^ that looks horrible. Ha! Glad you got them back together!

Yea not exactly what I was expecting, but again I have taking apart alot of tooling over the years. I messed up because I laid out my take apart backwards, I started one way and then switched based off of how I was holding it. Total rookie mistake. The second one I laid out properly.

The pins are offset, so they can only go one way, but the center is sprung loaded, so it was a 'game' of keeping it lined up while screwing it back together. Took a couple of times until it caught and went properly. if it was forced it would have broken, but again it comes down to a 'feel' for the assembly.

I am currently waiting to hear back from a local injector shop on getting them all tested.

All of the spray ports were pretty dirty, now that I see how they work I am torn on tearing the rest down or just sending them out for cleaning/testing.

It does coincide that the injector code I got the most codes for was #3, which was also the one that had the most carbon build up on it, with less than a 1/4" of opening for air flow.

[335dsleeper]

That interesting about the codes. I had three codes and misfires before I did the CBU cleaning. I never removed or cleaned the injectors, just the standard CBU walnut cleaning and all is well. I'd think a fuel additive would clean the nozzles as that's a typical diesel injector issue and not really the BMW CBU by definition.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

That interesting about the codes. I had three codes and misfires before I did the CBU cleaning. I never removed or cleaned the injectors, just the standard CBU walnut cleaning and all is well. I'd think a fuel additive would clean the nozzles as that's a typical diesel injector issue and not really the BMW CBU by definition.

I have run plenty of different injector cleaners, I have pulled alot of injectors (7.3/6.0 fords) and these are WAY worse than I have come across before.

The two I took apart would not even 'spray' when I hit the nozzle with brake clean, after I was done they 'fired' nice.

I am sure the lack of air flow from CBU affected the injector readings. But I have it apart( !!!) I may as well check/balance the injectors while I am here.

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by DozerDan82

I have run plenty of different injector cleaners, I have pulled alot of injectors (7.3/6.0 fords) and these are WAY worse than I have come across before.

The two I took apart would not even 'spray' when I hit the nozzle with brake clean, after I was done they 'fired' nice.

I am sure the lack of air flow from CBU affected the injector readings. But I have it apart( !!!) I may as well check/balance the injectors while I am here.

Jesus. That bad? WOW. Did it run rough or just pull coeds? I hope you can get them tested and back in without issue.

Funny how a lot of us have 6.0 injector stories. LOL I feel like I swapped 1 or 2 a quarter until I started running archoil 9100.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Jesus. That bad? WOW. Did it run rough or just pull coeds? I hope you can get them tested and back in without issue.

Funny how a lot of us have 6.0 injector stories. LOL I feel like I swapped 1 or 2 a quarter until I started running archoil 9100.

It got to the point where at idle is was missing and shuttering bad. Under load it ran ok but was def down on power. A few times it felt like it was going to stall out when you came to a stop.

I have found a few places online I can send the injectors out to, really hoping the local place can do them though, in the interest of time.

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by DozerDan82

It got to the point where at idle is was missing and shuttering bad. Under load it ran ok but was def down on power. A few times it felt like it was going to stall out when you came to a stop.

I have found a few places online I can send the injectors out to, really hoping the local place can do them though, in the interest of time.

Man, you have me thinking now... I had the exact same symptoms! I wonder if my injectors are nasty?! I'll be pulling them soon anyways but, you def have me thinking.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Man, you have me thinking now... I had the exact same symptoms! I wonder if my injectors are nasty?! I'll be pulling them soon anyways but, you def have me thinking.

Just dropped my injectors off at the local D&W shop, they can not do them in house but their other facility can. They will be there tomorrow and should be able to get to them tomorrow as well.

$35 each to have them tested, said he will let me know after they test them if and what they need and if it is in their realm. For that price I am happy to at least get some info from them.

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by DozerDan82

Just dropped my injectors off at the local D&W shop, they can not do them in house but their other facility can. They will be there tomorrow and should be able to get to them tomorrow as well.

$35 each to have them tested, said he will let me know after they test them if and what they need and if it is in their realm. For that price I am happy to at least get some info from them.

Good deal!

[DozerDan82]

Just heard back from the injector shop. 3 of mine failed. Not sure which ones yet, but I did label them so hopefully I can know when they come back.

He said 2 of them failed for return, and one for electric specs, aka was not firing. I asked for a print out of the specs and what they failed for, he was going to try to get it for me.

Guess its time to find some injectors.

[335dsleeper]

^ I wonder if that is why you had carbon blocking the nozzles. Maybe it wasn't firing.

[dr_dirtg]

Hi Guys,

I have my engine all apart and ready to blast with walnut shells.

I am stuck and not 100% sure about finding and making sure that the piston is in Top dead center the valves are infact closed...

I remmoved my glow plugs and put a long rod inside thru the hole and the rod does go up and down as i slowly turn the crankshaft - however at times it feels like it gets stuck - am i resting the rod tip on the piston or on the back of the valve? I just slightly back off and then i can freely remove my rod. ( I know, i know not supposed to go backwards, but it'd be worse if i lost a piece of my rod in there, and I only go back maybe 2 degrees).

Anyway can anyone enlighten me with how to find that the valves are infact closed?
I do have a inspection camera but its really difficult to see anything with it - its the $90 one from harbour freight, color, with a angled mirror piece, still difficutlt to tell going in thru the Top intake holes, and or going thru the side intake holes.

Any help is really appreciated!!

[335dsleeper]

I used a bore scope to ensure the valves were closed. If you don't have a boost scope, pull the valve cover and look at the valve springs. When the valve stem are at their highest point, the valves are closed.

[dr_dirtg]

I really would like to avoid removing the valve cover, seems like it would be a lot of time/work to do so.

Can anyone confirm if you stick a rod thru the glow plug holes does it sit on the top of the piston face? (when you rotate the crank the rod goes up/down) would it be safe to say all the intake/exhaust valves are closed when the rod is all the way up?
Or is that not enough info to determine that?

My borescope is about 1/4" in diameter and the thing wont fit down the glow plug hole.
Also my valves must be very dirty becuase I can't see very well with my borescope going down the intake runners. And the borescope camera gets soot dirty each time I go in with it.

[Whhorn]

In the SIB it shows the cam lobe positions for the intake valves when the valves are closed.

When the intake lobe longest point is "up" - in other words not making real contact, the valves are closed. You can shimmy the rocker arm with your finger tip at this point because there will be no tension until the cam makes contact.

All of the above assumes you've removed the valve cover in preparation for the head port blasting... I was unable to see anything useful in my ports with the camera until I had completed some blasting.

[335dwanted]

Unfortunately I don't have any good suggestions for you.

The glowplug enters the cylinder at a highly oblique angle so I am surprised that it will work for your intended purpose. The injector enters perpendicular, so that would work well but I would be hesitant to remove injectors (not ever sure how secured) and open up the fuel lines for fear of getting dirt in there.

See the following picture to see how the glow plug enters the cylinder:



It is possible your rod is getting pinched in the chamber machined into the top of the piston, see this image:



Have you tried to see the movement of the intake valves from both the tangential and the swirl port? Perhaps one will work better than the other with the borescope.

[dr_dirtg]

Originally Posted by 335dwanted

Unfortunately I don't have any good suggestions for you.

The glowplug enters the cylinder at a highly oblique angle so I am surprised that it will work for your intended purpose. The injector enters perpendicular, so that would work well but I would be hesitant to remove injectors (not ever sure how secured) and open up the fuel lines for fear of getting dirt in there.

See the following picture to see how the glow plug enters the cylinder:



It is possible your rod is getting pinched in the chamber machined into the top of the piston, see this image:



Have you tried to see the movement of the intake valves from both the tangential and the swirl port? Perhaps one will work better than the other with the borescope.

This is good info, yes, perhaps the rod is being stuck as i see that head picture.

yes i have put the borescope into both ports, i will try other cylinders right now to see if i can see better in the other ones. although i doubt it.

I did remove the cam position sensor, and i can se the 1st lobe of the camshaft for cyl 1, but barely. and i'm not sure if all 4 valves will be in the closed position based on just this one lobe that i can see.

[terry335d]

I initially couldn"t tell when the valves were closed using a boroscope due to the scope getting too dirty too quickly. So I got some long (2 ft) plastic zip ties to put in the runner and get some of the goop out. There may be better ways, but with patience this worked well enough that I was able to see the closed valve. The angle of the boroscope is important, just be patient.
I forget the relationship, but if the valves are closed on one cylinder, then there is another one that they are closed on as well iirc. Someone with more knowledge could confirm this.

[dr_dirtg]

Originally Posted by terry335d

I initially couldn"t tell when the valves were closed using a boroscope due to the scope getting too dirty too quickly. So I got some long (2 ft) plastic zip ties to put in the runner and get some of the goop out. There may be better ways, but with patience this worked well enough that I was able to see the closed valve. The angle of the boroscope is important, just be patient.
I forget the relationship, but if the valves are closed on one cylinder, then there is another one that they are closed on as well iirc. Someone with more knowledge could confirm this.

Ok so update on my progress...
I ended up removing the valve cover - just wasn't 100% sure where the valves were based on "instructions" from ISTA, bmw's repair service pdf, or from feel, or even from the help here, and if i was to give anyone advice it would be to remove the valve cover - its a whore yes, but then you know for sure where your valves are. The injectors were a complete slut to remove... we ended up prying them out with a 3ft long crowbar, against a 10mm deep socket sitting on the nearest valve cover bolt and even then it was crazy to see the bar flexing!!
The other whore was the small torx screw at the back of the valve cover/pass side - which ever engineer put that there instead of a normal 6sided bolt deserves to have their balls squashed in a vice.

I will try to take a video or photos of what to watch out for to find top dead center and then some kind of helpful pointers to be somewhat sure of when the other cylinders have their valves closed...while cranking the crankshaft to post here and for my own future reference because i plan to keep this car forever. Although now i'm considering a tune to remove this egr garbage.

I blasted 2 cylinders only so far, it takes lots of time to cover up the engine and blast, and check and blast and check and blast and check again.
Not to mention the humidity today; it was making the blaster choke and i had to basically kick it lightly to simulate vibration to get the walnut granuals going.
My borescope was useless until I blasted atleast once, to be able to see the shape of the valves. after wards it comes in handy to make sure all the granuals are blown/sucked out.

Another pointer, after finding TDC and closing the valves on each cylinder, i would then scrape the sides of the intake runners about an inch or so in depth with a knife or edge of flat head screw driver to remove the grunt of the carbon build up. It speeds things up.

I have to do the next 4 in the next few days, I'm working all weekend though so it might take until monday night for any significant progress and a possible update with pictures.

Thanks for the replys to my quesitons fellas!

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by dr_dirtg

Ok so update on my progress...
I ended up removing the valve cover - just wasn't 100% sure where the valves were based on "instructions" from ISTA, bmw's repair service pdf, or from feel, or even from the help here, and if i was to give anyone advice it would be to remove the valve cover - its a whore yes, but then you know for sure where your valves are. The injectors were a complete slut to remove... we ended up prying them out with a 3ft long crowbar, against a 10mm deep socket sitting on the nearest valve cover bolt and even then it was crazy to see the bar flexing!!
The other whore was the small torx screw at the back of the valve cover/pass side - which ever engineer put that there instead of a normal 6sided bolt deserves to have their balls squashed in a vice.

I will try to take a video or photos of what to watch out for to find top dead center and then some kind of helpful pointers to be somewhat sure of when the other cylinders have their valves closed...while cranking the crankshaft to post here and for my own future reference because i plan to keep this car forever. Although now i'm considering a tune to remove this egr garbage.

I blasted 2 cylinders only so far, it takes lots of time to cover up the engine and blast, and check and blast and check and blast and check again.
Not to mention the humidity today; it was making the blaster choke and i had to basically kick it lightly to simulate vibration to get the walnut granuals going.
My borescope was useless until I blasted atleast once, to be able to see the shape of the valves. after wards it comes in handy to make sure all the granuals are blown/sucked out.

Another pointer, after finding TDC and closing the valves on each cylinder, i would then scrape the sides of the intake runners about an inch or so in depth with a knife or edge of flat head screw driver to remove the grunt of the carbon build up. It speeds things up.

I have to do the next 4 in the next few days, I'm working all weekend though so it might take until monday night for any significant progress and a possible update with pictures.

Thanks for the replys to my quesitons fellas!

When I did mine I ran into the same thing, the bore scope would get gunked just trying to look. I had the cover off and after the first one was comfortable in trusting the cam locations to know the valves were closed. Once I got that under control I would do as you said, scrap and suck, then hit it was some brake clean, then air/suck then blast, and repeat as needed. Took WAY more shells than advertised and WAY longer than the listed time (at least for the non D motors). I modified my wands a bit as I went to get all of the spots I could not reach but could still see, also modified some screw drives and pick tools to fit down and around.

One of these days I will get back around to working on it, been sitting for too long as I have been stupid busy

[Persian Whisperjet]

Originally Posted by dr_dirtg

which ever engineer put that there instead of a normal 6sided bolt deserves to have their balls squashed in a vice.

You are making me nostalgic for when I used to work on my Citroen DS-21.

[dr_dirtg]

Originally Posted by Persian Whisperjet

You are making me nostalgic for when I used to work on my Citroen DS-21.

lol, maybe it was this engineer's grandfather who did the citroen ds21 engineering. hah.
i sure wont be putting that screw back in there though.

[ninja_zx11]

Originally Posted by dr_dirtg

Hi Guys,

I have my engine all apart and ready to blast with walnut shells.

I am stuck and not 100% sure about finding and making sure that the piston is in Top dead center the valves are infact closed...

Anyway can anyone enlighten me with how to find that the valves are infact closed?
I do have a inspection camera but its really difficult to see anything with it - its the $90 one from harbour freight, color, with a angled mirror piece, still difficutlt to tell going in thru the Top intake holes, and or going thru the side intake holes.

Any help is really appreciated!!

I know its too late for you but here is what i am thinking to do when i will be doing CBU cleanup on my X5 35D.
I would feed the cylinder with compressed air at around 20~50 psi through glow plug hole and watch the pressure gauge needle movement to find the tdc.At low PSI,you can actually see the needle moving as the piston moves up or down.I got this idea while doing leakdown test on my pressure washers's V-twin cylinder engine.